Still undecided...HPMS

Parents Forum
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<p>Dear parents,</p>

<p>Sometime last year I posted a thread entitled "Do BWRKs get into top schools?" The responses from the parents on this board were helpful, informative, and reassuring, as they always are. Now, with one of the biggest decisions I will have had to make up to this point, I turn to the wise parents at CC again. (Sorry to those who saw the cross-post already on the Search & Selection forum, but the parent responses are just too good to pass up).</p>

<p>I find myself in the very fortunate position of having to pick between Harvard, MIT, Princeton, and Stanford (in alphabetical order so as not to reveal any subconscious preference). I'm pretty much equally split amongst the four, and since the enrollment postcard must be stamped and in the mailbox on Tuesday, May 1 (can someone confirm this? A friend said they have to be postmarked on April 30...).</p>

<p>Background: I'm an Asian male living in suburban Boston, about ten minutes away from Harvard and MIT, with my parents. I'm not quite sure what I want to study, but I'm leaning towards computer science/some type of engineering (I enjoy the problem solving that goes on in these fields), but I would also like to come out of college with excellent communication skills in both the written and spoken word. My main extracurricular passion is classical piano, which I play somewhere between an intermediate and an advanced level. My main academically-based interest is government and politics. I'm a political junkie who reads blogs and follows the news closely on a daily basis. I applied SCEA to Stanford and RD to the other three. I did not receive fin. aid from any of the schools.</p>

<p>Here are the pros and cons that I have come up with for each institution:
==Stanford==
Pros: Weather, really outgoing and friendly students, lots of school spirit, cheering on D1 sports teams would be fun, strong computer science & engineering, but also strong generally across the board in case I switch my mind</p>

<p>Cons: Really far away, students seemed to adopt a nonchalant attitude regarding academics (think the duck analogy), music didn't seem to be a central part of many students' extracurricular life, I'm not sure how well connected Stanford grads are along the east coast (I plan to stay in the east coast after college), boring suburban location</p>

<p>==Princeton==
Pros: Beautiful campus, lots of school spirit, strong across the board in engineering/natural sciences/humanities, classical music/performing arts in general get a lot of support from students & school alike, heavy undergraduate focus</p>

<p>Cons: typical concerns about elitism/eating clubs, boring suburban location</p>

<p>==Harvard==
Pros: Close to home, students there seemed to be the best collegiate kids in their respective fields with the exception of engineering, Boston/Cambridge is the greatest college playground, government department there is pretty much unparalleled, great music</p>

<p>Cons: Weak CS/Engineering, most students reported a negative social experience (my tour guide said it "sucked"), learning seemed to take place more as a result of the brilliance of the students than as a result of the teaching of the faculty</p>

<p>==MIT==
Pros: Noam Chomsky, close to home, grueling undergraduate education ensures that you come out ready for anything (that was the impression I got), heavy student collaboration and an "us versus the professors" mentality that really prompted students to band together and form combined social/study groups, engineering/CS very very strong, Boston/Cambridge is the best college playground, great music</p>

<p>Cons: Humanities are lacking, which I would imagine would hamper my goal to write/speak very well after college...some kids seemed to be pretty unhappy about the place, there wasn't this great institutional love like there was at Stanford, Pton, or even Harvard (IHTFP mentality)</p>

<p>I don't know why I'm posting this but just the process of writing it was very helpful. Input from alumni/parents of current students would be especially appreciated.</p>

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<p>It sounds like Princeton might be the best match, considering your desire for an all-around education, but with excellent math/cs, with a lively social scene and school spirit. You can avoid the prep/eating club routine to whatever degree you want. NYC is a very easy train ride for the city and culture you crave, and a popular student weekend destination.(when you aren't working - you'll work hard at P! :)</p>

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<p>My first thought was to say Stanford even before I read that you applied early. It has strong engineering/computer science and the weather can't be beat.</p>

<p>I can answer your questions about the elitism of Princeton as My S is a student there and I've eaten in an eating club myself. The food is fabulous and the students were very friendly. My S went to an inner city high school and loves the eating clubs. </p>

<p>The Princeton student body is extremely diverse. There does not appear to be a lot of cliquishness, in fact I'm stuck by how much students from very different backgrounds seem to interact and hang out with each other. They are not stuffy and everyone seems to have a good sense of humor. Sure there are some rich kids, but over half of the student body is on financial aid. This is not the Princeton of Scott Fitzgerald's day.</p>

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<p>MIT - "Humanities are lacking, which I would imagine would hamper my goal to write/speak very well after college."</p>

<p>Don't necessarily make that assumption. In the Music Department, the Pulitzer Price-winning composer John Harbison teaches freshman courses, and Harvard students traipse over to MIT for these humanities offerings. In contrast, the prize-winning composers at Harvard teach composition only to graduate students (according to the head of the music department, with whom my d. interviewed), and only in alternate years.</p>

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<p>I would say Princeton, because of all the "cons" you listed, Princeton had the least, and those few you listed are not all that critical to your interests and academic plans...by comparison, the "cons" you listed on the other three schools seem to directly impact your educational experience.</p>

<p>By the way, congratulations, enviable problem to have! :)</p>

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<p>Dear parents,</p>

<p>Thank you so much for your informed and eloquent responses thus far. </p>

<p>ASAP - Amen to all the reasons you listed! Of course, as soon as I think of the positives of one, the positives of the other keep flooding in as well!</p>

<p>Cookiemom - I just saw your PM, thank you for responding to both of my threads! Many of my friends have the same reaction (Stanford), and it is certainly appealing, but then again, aren't they all lol.</p>

<p>Latetoschool - Thanks! The positive responses to Princeton have certainly made me reconsider it...I had actually just discarded it in the 10 minutes since I posted, but it looks like my choice is no easier now haha.</p>

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<p>I'd recommend Princeton or Stanford. I think this is a good time to get away from the familiar. I lean toward Stanford because it's further away and more different and it's so strong in computer science. I agree that the location is boring, but you can get into SF pretty easily.</p>

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<p>You can't beat California for interesting politics! The problem with Stanford is that you may like it too much, and then end up living far away from your parents. (Although I've known several families that followed their adult children to the West Coast.)</p>

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<p>Sheldon,
My son had the exact same choice 5 years ago, and some similarities and differences to your situation. We live very close to Princeton, and he eliminated that wonderful school first as he wanted to experience a different part of the country from where he grew up. His academic interest at the time was computer science, but he was not 100% committed to that field. He had the same impression as you, that Harvard was not quite as strong as Stanford in technical areas, and that Stanford is strong in both engineering and liberal arts fields. In the end, he chose Stanford, and it turned out to be the right place for him. He ended up majoring in Economics and minoring in CS.</p>

<p>He is working in California right now, but many of his friends did get jobs in New York. I do agree that it would be easier to get a job on the East Coast from an East Coast school, but it is possible to do it from Stanford. </p>

<p>The distance to Stanford is really not as big a deal as you think it might be. I am sure there are many direct flights from Boston. Stanford is very close to the San Francisco and San Jose airports, and shuttles run very frequently, so you should be able to be in your dorm less than an hour after you land.</p>

<p>Another point which hasn't been mentioned: The quarter system at Stanford allows for more flexibility in trying out different fields of study than the semester system, as students end up taking many more distinct courses at Stanford than in a school where you normally take only 8 courses in a year. It is also advantageous for students in majors with a lot of requirements as far as studying abroad, as it is much easier to schedule being away for one-third of a year than one-half of a year as far as fitting in requirements. </p>

<p>You said that you are very interested in Politics - Stanford has a wonderful Stanford-in-Washington program which you may want to look into, if you haven't done so already. My son participated in this program, as he was interested in the public policy aspects of Economics. Stanford owns a house where the students live and study on Connecticut Avenue right near the zoo. The students do internships with government agencies, elected officials, or non-profit groups, which are arranged by the program according to the student's interests. They also take seminar style courses in the evening, by Stanford faculty and invited teachers (My son had a course taught by Walter Pincus of the Washington Post.) Well known guests are invited to speak to the students - I know that Robert McNamara viewed the "Fog of War" with them and Senator Olympia Snow came to speak to them, among others, and they also visitde the offices of other well known people to meet with them. There were also some weekend trips and tickets to cultural events, etc. which are all included in the program. </p>

<p>Don't worry about the "postmark" issue - my son made up his mind so late that he had to call Stanford on April 30 or May 1 to tell them he was sending his acceptance card in. The schools all want you to choose them right now -they are not going to tell you that you can't come if the card isn't postmarked by today!</p>

<p>I know it is a very difficult choice but your discussion of the pros and cons of each school is very thoughtful and insightful, and I know you will pick the best school for you. Please let us know what your final decision is!</p>

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<p>I would choose MIT if i were you</p>

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<p>dd is at Stanford and has never been happier. Although she loves her classes, she loves the people she has met even more. She was a kid in high school who did everything and worked really hard--too hard sometimes. I have found that she is actually more relaxed academically than she has ever been, which is quite nice.</p>

<p>Good luck in making your decision...once you do finally make it, my advice: never look back...you really can't go wrong.</p>

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<p>I vote for Stanford. Our friends son is there on the swim team (athletic scholarship), altho' he is certainly no slacker in the brains dept (NMF). In hs he was the brilliant guy who was also no. 1 in the state for swimming. Kinda gliding thru life on all levels. (is that what the "duck" reference is about). But maybe that's what you mean by the nonchalant attitude on academics.</p>

<p>Anyway, it's always been my impression that Stanford and MIT are both stronger in comp sci and engrg than Princeton. So, if you don't like Stanford, go with MIT. But Stanford is a wonderful place and I think you'd like it. Superior academics in a relaxing atmosphere with beautiful weather is a nice thing, imo.</p>

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<p>I am a die-hard Princeton advocate so think you can't go wrong there:). However, one more thing in Stanford's favor. On the West Coast the Asian community has an enormous impact on local culture. More so than anywhere else in the US. My vote would be for you to see this side of the country and then move back east.</p>

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<p>Sheldon, I PM'ed you.</p>

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<p>Hi Sheldon, my son is still agonizing over a similar decision (HMS and Caltech, not P). I don't have any advice to offer, but it made me feel better to see that he's not the only one having a hard time deciding, which made me think you might appreciate hearing that you aren't alone in finding it hard to choose between excellent options.</p>

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<p>This is not that hard. Who wants to live 10 minutes from the 'rents? Plus you are in college. See a new part of the world! My D attends Stanford and loves it. It is very strong in the stuff you are interested in. Quick train ride to San Fran for fun. Campus is gorgeous, and so is the weather.
Go somewhere else in the world for four years. You will live the rest of your life on the East coast apparently. Don't worry, with a Stanford degree you will have no problem landing a great job on the East Coast if that is what you want.
Let us know what you decide.</p>

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<p>Wow,</p>

<p>thank you all for such a wealth of different responses. It's been a great assistance to see such diversity of experiences and opinions, and although I am still no closer to making a decision, the posts have stirred even more vigorous internal debate that I am sure will eventually lead to a choice I can never regret.</p>

<p>Please keep them coming!</p>

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<p>Actually, post #16 makes a lot of sense - as an employer, I tend to look for things an applicant brings to the table that are harder to get, and that I don't already have in incumbent employees. So I can easily imagine an east coast employer getting excited about a Stanford grad, if the majority of such graduates remain on the west coast...it would bring something new that isn't so readily available from the typical east coast resume yield...</p>

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<p>Update: It's 8:56 on the East Coast, and the Boston post office closes at Midnight. I've narrowed it down to Harvard/Pton/Stanford. AH!!!! I don't know what to do.</p>

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<p>NOW, you're starting to get annoying! ;)</p>