Still working on college list, financial aid important

College Search & Selection
21

I saw Lafayette mentioned and didn’t know if you were aware of their Marquis Scholarship.

https://admissions.lafayette.edu/financial-aid/types-of-aid/lafayette-scholarships/

Approximately 10-15 percent of admitted students each year are offered the scholarship, which provides an annual minimum award of $24,000. Also beginning this school year, Lafayette offers the Marquis Fellowship, valued at $40,000 per year, to approximately 25 admitted students each year. Those selected to be Marquis Scholars and Fellows have demonstrated intellectual curiosity, superior academic achievement, and civic engagement at their high school and hometown.

I know of two boys who received the Marquis at Lafayette (two years apart). Both turned it down to attend other schools, and neither had stats as strong as your son.

Rochester is another one I have heard of b/c a neighbor’s D received full tuition there. Again, stats not as strong as your son’s.
https://enrollment.rochester.edu/financial-aid/undergrads/#tab3

Merit scholarship amounts range from $2,000 per year to full tuition.

I realize that these do not fit your son’s search criteria exactly, but might be worth pursuing.

I assume you have dismissed USC already? I did not read your stats thread but assume NMSF? It appears that USC offers full tuition to 115 students each year. Probably more Greek like than desired.

http://admission.usc.edu/docs/Scholarships.pdf

22

@csdad2 When your net price is higher than your EFC, that is called “gapping.” It is very common. If you look at sites like the College Board Big Future (find your college, then pick Financial Aid by the Numbers), or College Data (find your college then click Money Matters), you will find that the “percentage of students with full need met” is almost always is less than 100%. In addition, the colleges get to define what your need actually is. It’s a bit of a rigged statistic. The IM is not even published, and colleges tweak that one as they like (can ask the College Board to add or remove questions from their version).

However, colleges do “fund their favorites” - I recommend the following presentation to learn more about how college financial aid decisions are not just based on need, but on “yield management.”

http://guidedpath.net/down-and-dirty-of-american-college-admissions-presentation-now-available-parentstudents/

23

Just a point: there’s gapping, where the school doesn’t have a “meet full need” policy. But that’s a different egg than a gap between what the fafsa says your EFC is versus how the college calculates it. Most of us found even MFN colleges calculate a little higher than the simple Fafsa EFC.

Imo, it’s too broad to imply MFN schools “fund their favorites.” There are guidelines these need to follow, even for any leeway they have.

24

There are a number of schools (many already mentioned - such as Lafayette) where your son could potentially get full-tuition. Granted, those that get these awards are few & far between - but like the lottery “you gotta be in it to win it.” These schools would be in addition to automatic NMSF Awards. Take a look at …

Colorado School of Mines - My S applied in 2014. Got it with modest merit FA. Was then invited to apply for a small number (can’t remember how many) of full-rides. This required essay, additional application, etc. and was by “invitation only.” Didn’t get one - but maybe your S will fare better. Great school.

Boston University - Again, limited number of Trustees Scholarships. If memory serves me, a nomination was required.

University of Richmond - Everyone who applies by a certain date (Dec. 1st??) - is automatically considered or one of their Richmond Scholars full-tuition awards. Beautiful school - maybe a bit too southern.

Tulane University - Again, could be too southern but student population is very diverse. I think they’ve got the honor (or are way up there) in terms of “longest distance from home” for their students. There are a few full-tuition scholarships your son can apply for - again, requires meeting early deadline and extra essays.

Good luck.

25

@lookingforward Yes, the Institutional Method EFC is usually calculated higher than the FAFSA EFC. The EFC calculated from the Profile form plus the college’s own internal formulas is generally a trade secret, though the NPC calculator does give you a feel for where your numbers might be.

But, there is still a difference between MFN and “need blind admissions.” The schools that meet full need are often (but not always) need aware. When a school is need aware, your admissions decision and financial aid package can vary based on your stats, demonstrated interest, etc.

If you haven’t watched the video I linked above, I still recommend it. The speaker is way more honest than most college admissions talks I’ve seen. If you just want the dirt on how and why schools fund their favorites, scroll to around 36 minutes in and watch from there. It really explains what I wanted to say in much detailed way.

26

At a MFN, the finaid package can only vary in certain ways. It’s required to follow formula and the discretionary changes FA can make are on the input side. The “rule” is all recipients in a category must be treated the same.

It’s really a finer point and to my knowledge, will come up more in professional judgment. Meet Full Need is not stats based and can’t rest on demonstrated interest, per se. Regardless of need blind or not.

And watch out for purported ultimate savvy from these guys who make their living selling their services.

27

@lookingforward OP has a 36 ACT. They should do well with both “pure” MFN schools like you are describing and with “fund their favorites” schools (which are both more numerous and sometimes easier to get into). This family should be looking at both.

(And yes, I probably could have phrased my previous post better: A need-aware school will offer admission to fewer needy students, but an MFN school should offer similar packages to those students with similar financial resources.)

28

It’s not all about stats. He’ll have to pass holistically at some colleges (and he does sound like an interesting and motivated kid.)

OP, do you want to mention MFN schools where the NPC seems to show not enough aid?

29

@Midwestmomofboys (and @OHMomof2): Thanks for the comments. We have visited Grinnell – it was during the summer though – and we are going to try to visit again. The small/isolated town turned us off, but perhaps seeing the place while school is in session will negate that. I’ve heard so many good things about it, and it does seem very promising for aid. We’ve also visited Denison – we all agreed the campus was beautiful (although didn’t care for the prominent location/setting of the football field) – but my son didn’t care for the school overall so much. But we’ll give it another look. And we’re definitely trying to get as much of the applications/essays done this summer as possible.

@CT1417: Thanks for the info about scholarships at Lafayette – we’ll give it a closer look. My son certainly has the academic qualifications for such awards, but he may be lacking in terms of research/outside activities, “leadership”, and civic/community engagement. But it may still be worth applying. Rochester is definitely on our list. We’ve heard a lot of very nice things about it – the school, the campus – but we haven’t visited yet. Have also heard that the weather isn’t so nice there (but fortunately my son is quite open in that regard :slight_smile: ). Case Western is another similar school – a notch below the top schools, with good chances for admission and a good financial package. As you surmise, USC is not a good match (besides Greek life, there’s the size and the emphasis on sports).

@4Gulls: Thanks for those school suggestions, we’ll take a closer look at them. Colo. School of Mines is likely not a good match, but some of the others may be. As you suggest, whether a school is too southern may be an issue. I’ve heard a lot of good things about Richmond (the school). Can anyone offer any comments about how southern/conservative the school is, as well as the city/community around it?

30

@csdad2 Funny about reaction to location of Denison football – to each his own! The core of campus is on top of the hill, which is where dorms and academic buildings and dining halls are located. Fine arts and performing arts are down the hill on one side and athletic facilities down the other side of the hill! But I think you have to trust your gut – there were a few schools my kid couldn’t wait to leave, even though they seemed great fits on paper, such as Conn Coll, and the more we visited Kenyon, the further it fell down his list.

31

@AroundHere: I have heard of gapping, but didn’t think that was the issue here. For one thing, we ran the NPCs for several (MFN) schools, and they were pretty consistent in their results – all off quite a bit from the EFCs. And there was that FAQ that suggested that the EFC numbers should pretty closely match schools’ computed need. Also, isn’t gapping more an issue at schools that don’t MFN? I did watch that presentation, it was interesting, and filled in a few details I wasn’t aware of.

BTW, I’d say that most MFN schools are need-blind. For example, according to this page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission
of the MFN schools, about twice as many are need-blind than are need-aware.

And how do we find these “fund their favorites” schools? :slight_smile:

@lookingforward: I can post some numbers from the NPCs, but I’ll need to review the results – I had my son do most of that work. He may not have been as rigorous as should be, and perhaps didn’t read things with as nuanced an eye as possible.

Anyway, I’ll just say, I’m left a bit puzzled and flustered after all this number crunching and analysis. After first seeing the NPC numbers, I was thinking we’d have to shift our application strategy, towards schools where greater merit is likely. Now after seeing these EFCs, and this followup discussion, I’m less certain about that, maybe our previous plan is OK.

It’s not that things are clearer now, it’s more that it seems there’s a fair bit of uncertainty you just can’t get past – in whether the aid from MFN schools will be sufficient, in what schools may give us sufficient merit aid. At some point, we’ll just have to say, we’ve made our best choices/guesses with the information at hand, time to roll the dice and see what happens.

Again, thanks for all the help, everyone.

32

OP, you may know, when numbers are disappointing, we sometimes suggest to review what you input, make sure there were no misunderstanding of what certain parts are looking for Eg, protected retirement funds are not assets. Home value, if asked, isn’t assessed or what the priciest house on the block went for.

And I was curious about schools you felt didn’t offer enough, not necessarily reveal your specifics.

33

@Midwestmomofboys: I remember driving to campus, parking in the lot/structure, going up to the main part of campus, and that field was just right there, down below, so prominent. Yeah, you can be on the main part of campus, walking around all the time, and not even be aware of it. But it stuck in my mind.

I generally agree with trusting your gut, but I also try not to overemphasize minor factors, especially when a more important factor (in this case, financial aid) looms larger.

34

re: University of Richmond, 30% of students are from the south, 30 % mid-Atlantic, 15 % NE, 7% West, 8% midwest. 11% are international. It “felt” more mid-Atlantic when we visited. Campus is very self-contained but not far from restaurants, shops, etc.

35

A good way to find “fund their favorites” schools is to use collegedata.com.

Look up a school then click on Money Matters.

I’ll pick on Beloit: if you scroll down the Money page you will see that 51.4% of kids with need get merit awards and 27.9% with no need at all are also getting merit awards. This school is clesrly giving lots of merit awards.

36

I found that casting a “wide net” in the merit chase was well worth the monies paid to visit (22+) and apply to (19) schools.

37

By this definition, almost all schools (including HYPSetc.) practice “gapping”, because they expect a student contribution (ESC) on top of EFC. So, even if they otherwise meet need, net price = EFC + ESC. For example, Harvard’s lowest possible net price for a US citizen is $4,600, which is the ESC, even though the family’s EFC may be $0.

A more sensible use of the term “gapping” would be if net price - EFC is large enough that it would require loans more than federal direct loans or work earnings greater than what can reasonably be earned by a college student. Of course, colleges can also calculate EFC differently, and EFC may not necessarily be the same as AFC (actual family contribution).

38

It’s always hard to define the line between a “gap” and a creative recalculation of EFC, since the colleges (especially Profile schools) get to define both the ruler and how well they measure up.

39

Denison’s athletic facilities are near the “back” entrance. The main entrance and main campus (academic buildings,student center, dining halls and dorms) are as far from that as they can possibly be. Anyhow the football/LAX/track field is totally overshadowed by the ginormous new swimming facility :smiley:

A potential physicist would do well to check out Olin Hall and the planetarium and such. http://denison.edu/get-to-know-denison/fw-olin-science-hall

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@csdad2 PM’d you . . … .