Stop Asking for Chances at Ivys!

Chance Me / Match Me!
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<p>New thread: This is a spin-off from Oracle's thread to stop this board completely...</p>

<p>Ok....I'm also tired of people asking: "What are My Chances at the Ivies?"</p>

<p>I don't mind people asking regarding admissions to SPECIFIC Ivy League Colleges if they really have an interest in that school. The 8 schools are incredibly different and unless you can say for certain why you want to go to a specific school, don't bother asking! </p>

<p>I think we should start a rule:
Before posting stats, students should briefly describe why they want to go to specific schools (any school for that matter...not necessarily just the Ivies). What do they like about it and how does it fit them? This means you should do some research on your own.</p>

<p>From there, we could better evaluate fit and "chances." </p>

<p>Any suggestions?</p>

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<p>I agree, half these people who tell other ppl their chances havent even gotten accepted themselves.</p>

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<p>^ I had a feeling, urcool....it's hard, on one hand I have NO idea of what the creditinals are of the people who post whether I'm qualified or not are...how can I trust them?</p>

<p>On the other hand, my need for reassurance is really strong as well....I think in addition people should post whether they applied to the schools the OP asked about (even though words are just words).</p>

<p>I'm not trying to sound like an ingrate or anything, I'm just nervous about all of this.</p>

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<p>yeah i agree, when i see people applying to yale/stanford/penn AND harvard/princeton i'm like....do u have any idea what u are talking about...clearly not...harvard/princeton are soo different (imho worse) than the other schools i named...its like, um, unless u are an athlete, the phrase ivy league school shouldnt mean anything to u</p>

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<p>I'm somewhat annoyed when I see lists that contain something like 6/8 ivies, MIT, Caltech, Northwestern Duke etc. It's like somebody ripped out the top-15 schools from US News and without knowing anything about the schools decided they wanted to go there. </p>

<p>Responding to urcool and Mi_Lie, you're both right. Most of the people on this board actually have no idea. There are some who have insight, but you need to take everything with a grain of salt. Some people are jealous, some are mean, some are ignorant, some are spiteful...all of these things could cause them to give you the wrong idea on your chances. This board tends to make schools seem much less attainable than they actually are. For example, I know somebody who with 2200 SATs, a 3.6 GPA, and only slightly above average ECs (CC standards of Unless you have X, Y, Z your ECs are not good) Got accepted to MIT. I know that only 10-20% of the people on this board would have predicted that. It's much too difficult to judge chances without insight into the inner workings of an admissions committee; therefore nothing here should be accepted as truth, merely as guidance.</p>

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<p>Don't assume that people who want to apply to different types of schools are just ripping the top 15 college lists out of US News and World Report. I myself am debating about whether to apply early to Brown or Harvard, two very different schools. But I think I could be happy at both schools and I think both appeal to different sides of my personality. Eventually I'll have to choose between them, but there's nothing wrong with considering different types of schools. Don't assume that everybody knows exactly what he wants.</p>

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<p>Oh I absolutely agree. That's why many students go into colleges with undecided majors. </p>

<p>Anyone is more than welcome to apply to schools that are different. I'm not arguing that there is only one kind of school that will fit a certain student. I'm certain that many students CAN benefit from two very different kinds of schools. </p>

<p>What I am arguing is that the high school senior has the responsibility and duty to find out about the different kinds of schools that are available, decide what schools are best for them, or could be good for them, and then apply. I don't think it's too much to ask.</p>

<p>I strongly doubt that many of the posters here who ask, "Which Ivy can I get into?" have actaully done that homework. Ask them what the differences are between UPenn and Cornell? See what they could actually tell you.</p>

<p>By the way...good luck to you next year. Hope to see you in school. ;)</p>

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<p>Hey man, I couldn't agree with you more. That's exactly the argument I've been making to my hyper friends. I mean, I decided that Harvard was probably the right place for me after I visited and read the viewbook, but these people just hear Harvard and assume it's the right place for them. The problem with banning all "Can I get into the Ivies" chance threads is that you just don't know what a person has or hasn't learned about the colleges. Looking at my college list, somebody might think that I'm another Ivy-centric freak, but I DO know the difference between Cornell and Penn (and I won't be applying to either).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The problem with banning all "Can I get into the Ivies" chance threads is that you just don't know what a person has or hasn't learned about the colleges. Looking at my college list, somebody might think that I'm another Ivy-centric freak, but I DO know the difference between Cornell and Penn (and I won't be applying to either).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, that is why I'm asking people who ARE saying, "Can I get into Ivies" to first give a little reasoning of why they want to go to each individual school. That has several benefits: first of all, it shows that they have done the research. Secondly, it also allows other CC’ers to give advice beyond, "yes, you have a chance," and actually comment on whether the school may/or may not be a good fit for the applicant.</p>

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<p>You know, I give a lot of the chances on this thread--and yes, I have to say there are times when I pass on certain threads for just this reason;--that the person asking either (a) has no clue about any of the Ivies, and just wants to apply to them all because the OPs stats are pretty good--or (b) they have not the slightest chance of getting into any of the schools and don't comprehend the competitiveness of the schools. </p>

<p>I think this especially irks me when the OP is from overseas--meaning the odds of acceptance are even more remote--and they say something like--"Gee, I'm 50th in my class of 300, but I've got these great test scores--so which Ivy can I get in that will pay my way since my family only makes about XXX dollars--and we can't afford anything." It's annoying because it means they don't realize that some of these colleges (the Ivies) only take about 70 students from an entire continent--meaning 50th in their individual school isn't going to cut it--and it's also annoying because these schools are trying to help good students--but they aren't planning on paying for everything--especially for foreign students, who may or may not even stay here after graduation.</p>

<p>As one poster put it in another thread--"This is the 'Land of Opportunity', not the 'Land of Freebies and Giveaways'". It grates me to see people expect a $120,000 to $150,000 education for free just because they worked hard in school. I've got news for them--99.888% of students work pretty hard--and at least 90% of students are possibly deserving of scholarships--but about 10% of students drop out each year--and about half of these drop out due to financial hardship--and at least 50% of all students will finish school with debt of at least $10,000--and that's with their parents helping them--and often with them working while in school. </p>

<p>Oh, and as far as being qualified to post here. Here's my stats--I was accepted to Brown (though I didn't attend for financial reasons)--and I received my MBA from UCLA. I was also accepted to the University of Utah law school--although I decided not to attend there for career reasons. </p>

<p>I've been in business for 25 years, currently work in management for the company Forbes Magazine ranked as the 2006 Company of the Year--and have taught at four different colleges part-time when not working in business.</p>

<p>I have not worked in college admissions, but I have read 5 books on college admissions, 3 other books by former Ivy adcoms on admission to the Ivies, and have visited over 70 college websites--and personally visited over 40 of the colleges on the top 50 list--including 7 of the 8 Ivy league schools (haven't been to Cornell), and every UC except the new one at Merced. I've also been to 49 of the 50 states (sorry, Alaska), and travelled to 28 foreign countries. I've also been to lectures by adcoms up and down the state of California--as well as at Purdue in Indiana. I suppose it's not the same as being an adcom--but well, I'm not interested in taking a pay cut just for the experience.</p>

<p>P.S. I don't think people asking for chances should expect everyone on here to be an adcom--or even to have the credentials I have. I think any kind of reasonable estimate is better than none--and I think people constantly complaining about those who are taking a lot of their time to provide a free public service here should just say thanks. After all, the advice in 99% of all cases is worth more than they are paying for it.</p>

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<p>i love it when people do this. it makes my princeton degree worth even more.</p>

<p>ivy leagues are the most coveted. ask ANYONE and most will probably say "ivy league" as a metonymy for "awesome schools".</p>

<p>Now, that aside, I am sure it can get annoying after many threads. In fact, I think it's rather pointless because no one is going to unload dozens of facts to strangers on some remote Web forum. I'd wager that many of the chances threads leave out other facts.</p>

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<p>"I have not worked in college admissions, but I have read 5 books on college admissions, 3 other books by former Ivy adcoms on admission to the Ivies"</p>

<p>I love how this thread is about not generalizing Ivies... And you actually wrote that.</p>

<p>In any case, I agree with most of what was said above, in that chances cannot be accurately predicted. It's all a game of dice. Everyone comes in thinking they have what it takes and some of the ones who are admitted are proly no better than some of the ones who were rejected, but the admittees might have a better fit or something appealing to the college (but even THEY don't know what that is until after they're in the middle of the process of admissions).</p>

<p>Also, my friend (going to Harvard next year) had a nice Ivy/Top10 list - not all of them mind you, I think it was Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Penn, MIT, CIT, and then 2 others - he wants to go into business, so while it looks like a Top10 list, he could tell you that he applied to each one because of the specific program he wanted to pursue and the opportunities post-graduation each school would create. BTW, he got into everything but Penn (some competitive Wharton program) and CIT!</p>

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<p>Moop. Jeez. I just graduated from high school. Guess I'll go hide in a corner somewhere lol. </p>

<p>The chances threads do get a bit annoying, that's why I stop reading them. But the most annoying ones go chanceschanceschancesjusttellmeI'llgotoHYPSalready!!!!! And then they argue with you after you tell them they don't have a good chance. Hey, don't like our opinion, don't ask for/read it.</p>

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<p>Ummm, isn't that kind of the point of this whole website anyway?</p>

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<p>hazelorb, the only reason I listed anything about myself is because this discussion is a continuation of a thread posted by oracle1 entitled "stop this discussion board". If you read that one (and it's mentioned in the very first post above), you'll see that one of the comments is that people who want to chance people should post their stats so people know something about their background and ability to chance others. Also, note urcool's comment (post#2 above) on this same subject.</p>

<p>P.S. Before you go off criticizing people like myself who haven't done work in the admissions process directly, but who only "read books", you might want to consider that Abraham Lincoln never went to law school--but rather taught himself everything he knew about law through self-study. Improving my knowledge through similar self-study was all I was trying to do. Sorry if that doesn't meet with your approval.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
i love it when people do this. it makes my princeton degree worth even more.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>...you don't have a Princeton degree.</p>

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<p>WindCloudUltra: THANK YOU. I wholeheartedly agree. If your insecurities about applying to a top-tier college/university run so deep that you willingly turn to a neurotic community of under-informed, overcompetitive high schoolers (and even, <em>GASP</em>, some middle schoolers) for guidance, then you should probably forget about applying altogether. Although I certainly don't qualify as an expert, I would assume that institutions such as Harvard and Princeton are looking for confident, secure, accomplished individuals, all of whom have faith in their own abilities to succeed. Typically, those posting "OMGZ CAN I GET IN?!?" messages on various CC boards are, indeed, quite accomplished, but their frantic doubts reveal one of two things:a genuine lack of confidence, or 2) a need for constant reassurance (yes, of course you can get in, oh man, you're so awesome and smart!! and they'll love you!! etc.). Please, guys. You're all smart. You're all capable. You're all good applicants. None of you need advice from people who know as much, if not less, about college admissions madness as you! RELAX! You'll get in somewhere you love, and it DOES NOT BY ANY MEANS have to be Harvard!!</p>

<p>Ivy League schools are NOT equivalent to a happy, successful life!!!</p>

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<p>If you want to apply; apply! There's no point thinking 10 years down the line why you didn't apply to a better college after you ended up on some dead end degree and college.</p>

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<p>there's nothing wrong with being a prestige whore.</p>

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<p>My Apprentice, WindCloudUltra ...lol </p>

<p>It's surprising how many people have a response to our threads. I do agree with you. You should include your qualifications when making a prediction. If you have never been to a school west of the Mississippi, then telling people how likely they are to get into UCLA doesn't help them. I also think that the word "reach" should be substituted in for "hell will freeze over before you get into that school"</p>

<p>The first time I posted What are my Chances? I was pretty discouraged by the responses (which I don't think hold true in the most cases). I think part of the reason was that posters never put up correct information. So you are going up against the invisible perfect applicant. If people go on the forum to self-praise (the people who spend 5 hours writing their post and say: should I even waste the time to apply?) I'm sure that 1950 turns into a 2250.</p>