Stop honoring National Merit Finalists!

Parents Forum
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<p>I agree with epiphany (I do, most of the time!). I don’t like the PSAT or the SAT. But they are there to stay until someone designs a better yardstick to evaluate students across the country (I don’t know enough about the ACT to conclude that it is a better measure).
To be sure some people do better under pressure than others. But there will be plenty more timed tests in college. And each will be given a grade. </p>

<p>Unlike SFUHS, our school is not full of people who can afford $31,5k. In fact, nearly half the students qualify for FRL. Students are not encouraged to take PSAT in their freshman or sophomore year, and nothing is done by the school to prepare them for the PSAT.
If publicizing the academic achievements of some of the students can motivate others to aim high academically, I’m all for it. Doing well on the PSAT is a more manageable goal than scoring high on APs. In fact, the school’s diversity breaks down at the level of AP courses.</p>

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<p>I have seen people recognizing the grotesque, the bad singers, vulgarities in the TV, bad politician… and here comes some posters, poor souls, not with good intentions, just twisting the words of the proud parents and contributing nothing except “insignificant” critics… Hope life treat you better!</p>

<p>Such as this, it is sad that the world is full of jealousy, hatred, discord and spoilers of happiness! And yes there are always people that criticize any program that is good…dissatisfied people, people that want to make headlines, contrarians…sour grapes…you name it! </p>

<p>Even after many posters take time to provide them with some information to answer their questions they still ignore them and continue with the “vain” critics:</p>

<p>QUESTION: How Many? PRESTIGIOUS?----YES!
ANSWER:Well as I cited before [1.5 million juniors entered the NMP] [15,000 are finalist…]
Yes, it is prestigious: Consider that "more than 1.5 million juniors in over 21,000 high schools entered the 2009 National Merit Program…The nationwide pool of Semifinalists represents less than one percent of U.S. high school seniors… </p>

<p>QUESTION: Purpose of PSAT: TO waste time and study some hours?—NO!
ANSWER: "Receive feedback on your strengths and weaknesses on skills necessary for college study. You can then focus your preparation on those areas that could most benefit from additional study or practice. </p>

<p>See how your performance on an admissions test might compare with that of others applying to college. </p>

<p>Enter the competition for scholarships from NMSC (grade 11). </p>

<p>Help prepare for the SAT. You can become familiar with the kinds of questions and the exact directions you will see on the SAT."</p>

<p>All of the above are benefits. A test is a tool, that some students hate, but necessary to measure knowledge!
I know many kids that only has taken the PSAT and SAT once…and yes many are avid readers! Why not? What’s wrong to learn and to have a passion for knowledge?</p>

<p>QUESTION: WHAT IS REQUIRED TO BE FINALIST? Finalist for just a test?----NO!
ANSWER: “Have a record of consistently very high academic performance in all of grades 9 through 12 and in any college course work taken.”… The school also is to notify NMSC of any noticeable decline in academic performance during the current year. If [student] is in college, high academic performance must continue and must be documented by an official transcript of [student] record";</p>

<p>It also requires an application listing work, extracurriculars, essay…,recommendations, take the current SAT® and earn scores that confirm the[PSAT/NMSQT performance]…</p>

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<p>It absolutely IS an honor, and it can be argued that being NMF illustrates a more-rounded achievement than fastest runner or highest pole vaulter in the state. (Wonderful as those are.)</p>

<p>Why shouldn’t these kids be honored?</p>

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<p>I think this Thread has run its course…</p>

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<p>Agreed!</p>

<p>That didn’t take long…less than 24 hours. Way too many of us stuck at home with time on our hands… ;)</p>

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<p>So what’s the beef? The vast majority of schools honor NMS as well as honoring other achievements of all varieties. What more should this award mean? It’s national only in the sense that all students can take the PSAT but it’s definitely regional in that it’s connected to SAT which is quickly becoming a more regionalized “favorite” test? I understand that any parent wants “more accolade” for their students’ achievements as that is a normal emotion. If you read all the posts it is appears that the school cited in the original post does not place more emphasis on any other areas which does not correlate to giving “less” emphasis to NMS.</p>

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<p>Must admit I have taken some pleasure over the years as my kids sat for a two hour test and walked away with multiple large scholarships after listening to my neighbors and coworkers boast endlessly over the years of how their kids’ soccer or basketball or football was going to get them the proverbial “full ride”. Almost never has worked out that way for them. I know it does for some but it strikes me as the cruelest myth out there in raising kids - the conviction that sports are the smart way to get to college.</p>

<p>That’s another thread, tho. </p>

<p>Yeah for NMF!</p>

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<p>^^^^^^^^^Absolutely!!!</p>

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<p>I’m more of a celebrate everyone’s achievment type of person, myself. I’m glad my kids are that way, too. I don’t like people who percieve the world in this way, “Must admit I have taken some pleasure over the years as my kids…” etc. I have one with an academic scholarship and one who will never have an academic scholarship, but will probably have a sports scholarship. I’m proud of both of them. I take no pleasure whatsoever in anyone else’s disappointment, however, and I’m not a big fan of those who do.</p>

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<p>Or, it’s the best indicator of the students taking expensive prep courses. It’s not strictly correlated to high income, but one’s income has a massive effect on one’s standardized test scores. There’s data out there to prove it.</p>

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<p>So being the #1 runner or pole vaulter in the state (which I might add, requires balancing rigorous training w/ school), is in any way an inferior award to that which results from taking a single 2-3 hr test?</p>

<p>Clearly you don’t live in a heavily-populated state.</p>

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<p>Haha. Since she hates the sight of blood, it’s doubtful she will become that. :slight_smile: Although apparently she is capable across the board, her preferences lie in the humanities, not the sciences. Yes, the comment about the accidents of our birth is true, but I think my point, and that of some others, is differentiating between accomplishments which are the product of discipline and choice, and a single-sitting test which is a combination of birth traits, quality of education, and individual application.</p>

<p>In any case, I appreciate the reply and all the other thoughtful replies. I cannot support more the disgust expressed about the distorted values of the culture, noted often on this thread. Indeed, you’ll get no argument from me that relatively speaking, the recognition of academics is not only on the back burner but maybe behind the stove, sitting in the dust. It’s absurd what our country is obsessed with, and what passes for honor. I find it embarrassing to try to explain this to my immigrant families. </p>

<p>But what some of you might not see is that the surrounding culture (the priorities, the expectations, the assumptions of those within the culture) very much filter into public education, directly and indirectly reducing what defines excellence. I feel most sorry for the immigrant families in this regard - both the educated and noneducated-but-ambitious ones. They are ‘captive’ and have no idea how much of their child’s academic success will depend on the parents making up for what is not being taught in school, and how little is being taught. (Relating back to pugmadkate’s post on a previous page) Every day it seems, on my job, I wonder how much worse it will get today: which unprofessional or unethical decision will be made on the basis of economic or political expediency in the public schools. </p>

<p>One set of decisions has to do with the idiocy of the teacher unions in my area, which makes all, yes all, budget layoff decisions based on seniority. So the tech teachers who haven’t taught in a classroom in 30 years are being transferred to the classroom (and doing horribly; I’m watching them); ditto for principals and P.E. teachers with seniority who have never taught in the classroom (also failing miserably so far this year; it was pathetic going into a classroom recently and having to teach such a teacher). But the recently experienced, currently skilled teachers are “let go” due to being more junior. And the ones who aren’t PE teachers dress like PE teachers: jeans, athletic shoes, polo shirts and a whistle around their neck all day. Charmed, I’m sure. I could go on and on about other shameful decisions & behaviors, but the rant would exceed post length.</p>

<p>But the other set of decisions has to do with the integration of society’s current values within the public school system. One way in which the system has caved in is to adapt to what the schools believe students will and will not tolerate (as well as, in some cases, what parents will and will not tolerate). At the best public suburban school in my area, they do at least maintain their high expectations of performance, and for that I respect them; however, the teachers there have become performance artists much more than in previous generations, believing that student attention spans and demands for entertainment constrict their freedom to teach concepts deeply. In the other public schools, they have so adopted the Recreation First culture that both classwork and homework assignments are pathetic and even childish (for high school). I compare the 1 to 1.5 hours of HW on the high school level with the 4-7 more rigorous hrs. for my daughters in a private, and I hardly know where to begin to make comparisons. And even in the “best” public that I just mentioned, there is a “no homework” policy on the weekends, which we found laughable.</p>

<p>So the point is, there’s a lot that goes into what kind of education any particular student will receive, which in turn will affect his or her standardized test performance. </p>

<p>If I were to give an award, then, it would actually be to those parents<a href=“especially%20of%20the%20publics”>/u</a> who do buck the culture of Recreation First, instant millionaires, and empty celebrity worship. They get very little support within the schools for such oppositional behavior.</p>

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<p>Impressive array of descriptors for those who disagree with your point of view. How about all of the posters you continue to ignore who have provided <em>rational</em> reasons to disagree with the SAT machine party line?</p>

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<p>I am coming in late to the thread as well, but for many students, academic accomplishments are a great deal of their identity. I am all for academic recognition though it sounds as the the counselor that prompted the original post had good reasons for not recognizing NMF. The truth is that in the vast majority of high schools, everything but academics is recognized.</p>

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<p>I completely understand what many people are saying - in so many high schools, athletes, etc. get all the recognition. However, here at UHS, that’s not the case. Academics are already the main focus/priority by far. We don’t have a football team, cheerleaders, or anything like that. We do have sports teams, but they aren’t a huge deal the way they are at at some other schools. Academics and the arts receive just as much, if not more attention than anything else.
I certainly can see why other schools would choose to announce NMFs, and I believe they may be absolutely right in doing so; it can be a great way to recognize academic achievement, which is so often ignored in your typical American high school.</p>

<p>I’m think I’m going I’m going to stay off this thread now because I’m unbelievably biased ;), but I feel as though people are making uninformed judgments about my school and why things are the way they are. Indeed, as others have mentioned, we are probably anything but your typical American high school. Of course, I agree that there is absolutely no reason why our policy should extend to any other school - there is no one policy that is right for every school. It’s far more individual.</p>

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<p>Pug, except the “schools” have little to do with it. A guy can run a 10 flat 100 bcos of genetics (and a LOT of hard work, but a slow-twitch muscle fiber kid will never crack 12 seconds). A kid can score 220 psat bcos of genetics. (Indeed, there are several published studies that certain Myers-Briggs personality types tend to do well on the SAT.) As epiphany notes, “academics” have little to do with a high score (and I think this was the point Reider was trying to make).</p>

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<p>Except that doing well on AP’s and Subject Tests is one measure of the school output, i.e., “academics” (plus a lot of hard work by the student). But the student can put in the hard work absent any school and still do well on the psat. Heck, that is how many homeschoolers get into highly selective colleges, (test scores). Again, the math ability is Sophomore-level (up thru Geom). </p>

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<p>Source, please?</p>

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<p>Perhaps CaliforniaDancer can refer Jonathan Reider to this thread. He may be very surprised about the strong support many parents voiced for the merit scholarship program, and the need/desire for finding ways to recognize academic achievement in many high schools. It’s unfortunate that he used SFUHS as “the” concrete example of his point of view.</p>

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<p>I know for a fact that my D and at least 2 of the 3 additional NMFs at her school this year did not take either a PSAT or an SAT prep class. They just test well and are academically focused. (the one child scored an 800 on the Math section of the SATs back in 8th grade for JHU’s talent search.) I don’t know anyone in our area that takes a prep for PSATs; some kids for SATs/ACTs. </p>

<p>But they do have adequate health care, and were read to from being babies & get 3 square meals a day. Now that is a whole other topic, but there are 440+ other kids in their school who also have a similar socioeconomic demographic (and in many cases, much higher) but they didn’t, as a school, achieve at the same rate that the Thomas Jefferson magnet school in VA did (with 140+ NMSFs.) Not everyone here takes the PSAT, or they take it cold in prep for taking the SATs in the spring. And some kids don’t test well. Or they’ve only taken regular level english classes & haven’t challenged themselves with honors or AP. A lot of reasons why “not.” But I don’t agree that it has anything to do with taking expensive prep classes.</p>

<p>And apparently, I’ve forgotten how to quote. Oops!</p>

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<p>Many schools make a big deal when students make “all-state” first chair for their musical instruments. Many could argue that those kids are often from more affluent homes whose families’ can afford better instruments and private lessons. </p>

<p>I’m sure this school likes to tout that it sends many schools to ivies. Well, why are they doing that? What’s the difference? It could be argued that many of those kids are from more affluent families.</p>

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<p>Wealthy parents can certainly buy expensive prep courses for their dumb kids, I suppose. I doubt it will produce NMFs tho. And the kid can sit thru the class zoning out to his or her ipod. If the kid is motivated then I suppose they might become a NMSF! But why would a wealthy parent care anyway about their kid getting a free ride to a public U?</p>

<p>This notion that parents buy their kids high test scores is just a myth that fuels a certain perspective. People who see it this way also no doubt believe we are in the midst of catastrophic global warming.</p>

<p>We’re all entitled to our views. And yes there will always be studies churned out by researchers working on the taxpayers dime that will “suggest” that wealth explains academic achievement. That’s fine. I just wish the strong armed discussion tactics where these people forcibly skip the needle past real debate on the issue to a “conclusion” that jives with their perspective would stop.</p>

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<p>I don’t have a problem with recognizing NMFs, if that is what a particular school wants to do. But please recognize a PSAT score for what it is. Many parents of more than one child can tell you that a child’s score on the PSAT can have little relation to each child’s “academic achievement,” but rather can reflect a child’s innate standardized test-taking intelligence.</p>

<p>Our h.s. offers PSAT test prep sessions, btw, - 4 hours on a Saturday morning for $15.</p>

<p>Edit to add: I actually do have a problem with recognizing NMFs. Its not that I don’t want the kids to be recognized, but that publicly divulging any students’ standardized test scores feeds the SAT-stress-crazed culture of many high schools. That is what I object to.</p>