<p>The moral of the story is that only the top ~40 colleges are selective @ <50%.</p>
<p>btw: for fun AND sun, there is always the University of Arizona (tied at #98)at 85% acceptance rate. Plus, they do rolling admissions early in the fall and offer merit aid to OOS kids to offset OOS tuition!</p>
<p>All of this is well known to me, except this stat still surprised me! " The AVERAGE selectivity rate for ALL colleges in the U.S. is 71%."</p>
<p>We were very happy that 90% of our local HS is focused on what they perceive to be the "top" schools, almost "top" schools, and "hot" schools, which are locally defined as colleges that through word of mouth end up getting 30 or so applications from the same HS class! This narrow focus by others created some great opportunities for my son. We were very glad to not be competing with his classmates for college acceptances, and he had 3 very nice acceptances by Christmas.</p>
<p>Tututaxi - not sure if this is what you are asking, but:</p>
<p>100 kids from HS#1 apply to college. On average, they each submit 8 applications = 800 applications. Extrapolate that across the country and world. If the overall average is, say, 5 apps per student, and there are, say, 500,000 applications this year to college (there are a lot more, I'm sure); that really only represents 100,000 students trying to get into college.</p>
<p>bluebayou, please be quiet. I want Arizona's acceptance rate to stay high. :)</p>
<p>The problem is that it is hard to find information about schools that don't make it into someone's top 350 book. Almost by definition, except for those in our local community, they are schools that we've never heard of -- so we're not likely to stumble across them on our own. I guess I'm lucky that we are in California -- at least we are well aware of the CSU system, and don't need a guidebook to tell us how that works. I think that really is the ultimate safety for most Californians, especially when you add in the financial factors. And truthfully, from the research that I've been doing so far, I think my kids could get a better education at most of the CSU's than many private colleges. (I also know for a fact that a strong GPA + good LSATs will win admission for a CSU grad into any of the UC law schools) But the problem is that most of the campuses are essentially commuter schools, not what my kids were looking for in terms of overall college experience. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I think that if you count down about 1/4 of the way through the "top 350" in terms of selectivity, you are pretty much in the 70% admit rate territory anyway. It is the top 20 or so that are really nuts (even kids with top stats & grades can't get in), and probably another 30-40 beyond that that are going to be difficult for the B+ students with SAT's in the 1200 range. Some of the state universities seem more selective than they really are because of preferences for in-staters -- I mean, UC Berkeley is hard to get into, but not unreasonably difficult for strong students in California - and UC numbers probably get driven up by the application process, which encourages students to apply to multiple campuses.</p>
<p>Calmom:</p>
<p>from what I've seen, Berkeley and UCLA have become extremely selective for in-state BWRKs.....both schools place a premium on low-income, first generation college kids (~33% of the class), another 33% for the truly special kids....leaving only a 1/3 for the middle-income BWRKs. Last year, one of the top public SoCal HS's in the state (based on API and SAT scores) only received 14 acceptances to UCLA from 70+ apps; every one of those kids had a gpa at 4+, honors/ap + high test scores. Even two years ago, 50+ would've received acceptances.</p>
<p>"I asked about the actual number of students applying versus number of applications. The colleges seem to like to share the former stats and not so much of the latter ones."</p>
<p>Guess why you did not get an answer!</p>
<p>Every college could answer your second question with the same answer: EVERY application to OUR school represent ONE applicant. I hope you realize that the colleges do NOT have access to the entire universe of applications. How could ED School Number 1 know about 5 or 20 RD applications? While some schools ask for information about other applications or can find partial information on the FAFSA forms, they would be entirely unable to disclose such information even if they wanted to. Think about it!</p>
<p>They could do a little statistical analysis and figure it out.</p>
<p>jmmmm, your explanation was very good. </p>
<p>xiggi- read the first post here....it will indeed bring to light some information</p>
<p>It does answer some of my questions. So I guess someone did do some research and did have access to the information.</p>
<p>...unfortunately.</p>
<p>S applied to only 1 reach; the other 4 along the match/safety spectrum. He LOVED one of the matches, liked another almost as much and found the othe two acceptable. All except the reach were early/rolling, so we had plenty of time to correct the "only acceptable" problem if the the first two matches hadn't come through.</p>
<p>In chatting with one of his hs teachers re college plans, the teacher told him - well, you should definitely go to Stanford if you get in. I understand where he was coming from - S is a talented student; teacher wants to see him go to the "best" place, etc. I jokingly told S to ask teacher how much he wanted to contribute toward the tuition bill (as S has great merit$ at Tulane). But the money isn't really the half of it with these types of comments.</p>
<p>S was downhearted (for about a half-hour, literally) when he got the Stanford rejection. But he had loved Tulane just as much from the get-go. What Stanford had going for it was the selectivity "insansity." We just returned from Tulane's admitted eng student function where he had a splendid experience, as did I.</p>
<p>So in his case the teacher comment (representative of how so many react) had no real negative effect; but think how it could feed in to some students' and parents' continued reluctance to believe they can't get a quality eduction anywhere but HYPS?</p>
<p>just to maybe put a different spin, or confirm the original post: we have several nursing schools in my area. The best one is at a community college, produces excellent clinical nurses that can jump right in and start working, as opposed to the supposed higher echelon colleges where the new grads need months of orientation. great bargain, great career, great education. Now that's a good school.</p>
<p>CGM, why do you assume that I need to read the post? </p>
<p>Was there anything in the NACAC findings that is considered "news"? Or did the NACAC simply revert to its typical pattern of stating the obvious and trying to reach overly generalistic and unhelpful conclusions? </p>
<p>I am glad you could found the answer to your original question. I hope it is helpful ;)</p>
<p>Well, I am surprised with the findings that state there are fewer actual students applying. With all the talk about the baby boomlet, I never even considered this as a possiblility.</p>
<p>If this was publicized better, maybe the frenzy would be lessened. Of course, this is bad for the schools. Carolyn, why don't you see if the Associated Press or Reuters can pick up this story?</p>
<p>I think Xiggi is right: this is not "news." I quoted the NACAC report after growing frustration with seeing the posts from students and parents here on CC who were rejected from all schools or put on waitlists at all schools. There is simply NO reason why someone needs to end up in that position if a list of schools is chosen carefully and includes some good less selective schools.</p>
<p>The NACAC study isn't the issue here (it actually came out at the beginning of this month and is done annually); What is at issue is getting the message across that wise students and parents need to cast a wide net --- and that net needs to include less selective colleges. But I do not think that you need to apply to 20 schools or 15 schools or even 10 schools in order to "cast a wide net." You just have to do your research, and pinpoint schools at varying levels of selectivity that offer a quality education. Anyone who is here on College Confidential has a wealth of information and suggestions at their fingertips, yet, year after year, I and other are scoffed at when we suggest less selective college options to folks aiming at the most selective schools. That attitude - and the consequences demonstrated throughout this board in the past two weeks of kids not getting in ANYWHERE - is what prompted my original post.</p>
<p>I agree, this whole process is sick.</p>
<p>I'm a lurker and occasional contributor on this board. Whenever I read posts, I always think how lucky I am to live in the NY City Metro region, where the City University of New York is a great option.</p>
<p>Besides being affordable, the application process is pretty easy. On the application, you select 3 schools, in descending order of preference, where you would like to attend. Chances are, you are going to get into one of them. If you are wise, you will choose 1 or 2 schools that are likely to accept you, based on your grade point average, regents, and SAT scores. I believe there is a mathematical formula to admissions, so there are no surprises.</p>
<p>When you apply to CUNY, you are automatically considered for the Honors program ... no special application. So the end result is that you get into one of schools that you chose, based on whatever the formula is for admissions (assuming, again, that you were wise in your choices), and if you qualify, you get into the Honors College. Very simple, no angst.</p>
<p>At my kids school, EVERYONE IS REQUIRED to apply to CUNY. No exceptions. And GC guides the kids about their chances of getting into the schools of their choice. Hence, every kid gets into college, even if its not their top choice. The college admit rate is 100%, and no kid is left without options.</p>
<p>It really makes me mad that SUNY (State University of New York) doesn't have the same process ... and by extension, other state universities. I read the University of California board, and I saw how dissapointed some of the kids were, and how arbitrary the admissions seemed. I really feel for these kids and their parents. </p>
<p>If only the whole process were easier (and less expensive).</p>
<p>Mommy, I think it is TERRIFIC that your kid's school requires everyone to apply to CUNY. That way, there are no kids stumbling around with no where to go come April. In California, most of the kids applying to the uber competitive UC system would be shoe-in's at several cal state schools. But, of course, who would want to apply to the cal states? Yet, they are very decent schools - It really is a shame.</p>
<p>I really hope many hs sophomores and juniors read these CC posts to glean wisdom - We didn't. The vast majority of high school gc's are not guiding their flocks well in this area. My S presented the list of universities, she said "good mix - you should be fine" and that was it. And, as a parent, I looked at the SAT and GPA ranges as the indicator of probable acceptance. His stats are at the high end of everywhere he applied - Waitlisted by all except his one safety (thank GOD for that wonderful school!) Unfortunately, he reads CC religiously and has a scornful attitude about the school he'll be attending, because nobody talks glowingly about it on CC. Sad, I think, because he'll receive a wonderful education at this school, provided he doesn't carry "an attitude" with him when he moves in!</p>
<p>Mommy_Dearest: What a wonderful policy! A built-in safety net, implemented by a wise educator!</p>
<p>Anybody in Caifornia that is thinking about becoming a teacher should look at Sonoma State. Beautiful campus in a beautiful area, and it is an hour from San Francisco and Berkeley.</p>
<p>Yes, I feel very lucky that 1) We have CUNY as an option and 2) We have excellent and REALISTIC college guidance.</p>
<p>I there are two other kids in our family that have college ahead of them. When I read these posts, I'm scared for them. I'll say it again, I feel so lucky that we have CUNY. I really wish more state University adopted the CUNY admission process for kids applying to in-state schools.</p>