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<p>Your acceptance rate would only be 10% if all applicants past a certain cutoff were exactly the same. The problem with the OP’s post was that he assumed that a higher GPA and SAT score (past the certain cutoff) was THE thing that was going to differentiate him and his friends and tip the odds in their favor. It wasn’t. If the OP had done his homework and gone to all the college web sites he would have seen that that is not enough.</p>
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<p>My posts about lotteries, etc have not been intended to address the issues of justice, when whining is justifiable etc (some of my other posts have, but not that)</p>
<p>All I am trying to do is showing that applying to large numbers of low probability schools, to improves ones odds, can be a rational strategy.</p>
<p>Im sorry I was not clear. Am I just being aspie about this, or are other folks having severe difficulty with my pure intellectual curiosity? (note well, I socialize just fine, and have never been diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder - but my tendency to seperate questions of fact and strategy from questions of value often leads to misundestandings on certain message boards - it never seems to with fellow economists though)</p>
<p>"Really? I think a student who gets into 4 top 20 schools AND 2 top 10 LAC’s should be shouting from the rooftops, planting himself face first in all the ice cream he can eat, dancing around the town … not spending one minute worrying about where he didn’t get in. And I think it’s incumbent on parents / adults to counsel kids that way as well, to develop a winning attitude (“I rocked!! this is fabulous! go me!!”) rather than cultivate the attitude that you missed out on something. "</p>
<p>I dont really come here to judge other folks emotional reactions, as a general rule.</p>
<p>In my own life I have cheered my DD’s admittances and prospects - my wife sometimes dwells more on where my DD did not get into - she and I are different and thats okay - I love her, and her poetic, regretfulness sometimes is a good antidote to my “live life forward” practicality (and of course on some things she is more practical than me.)</p>
<p>Personally I like numbers, and to speculate about things. The OP, whatever else they are, is bright, and quantitative. I would not be at all surprised if, after dancing and eating ice cream, he decided to question what happened. </p>
<p>That there is an overtone of questioning the justice of it, is something that should be encouraged, not discouraged. I like it when folks question the justice of the status quo. Hopefully he will do it not so much on his own behalf, or even on the behalf of a group to which he is connected - but on behalf of others unlike him who suffer injustice of whatever kind.</p>
<p>The good news is, if he goes to Middlebury he will learn to do that. Ditto at UC, as long as he keeps away from the Econ dept ;)</p>
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<p>Pray tell, how would an admissions officer (at, for instance, Harvard) know, ahead of time, that a student will prove to be that kind of person? Do we assume Harvard admissions officers are so omniscient that they know how each and every applicant will respond to a rejection? Are you suggesting that Harvard should reject kids because they might turn out to be the kind that take rejection as a sign of failure?</p>
<p>Perhaps the secret is NOT to apply to the Ivies, but send their admissions offices a list of the schools you did apply to, so they can be assured you are not the kind “who thinks the Ivies are some kind of cut above”.</p>
<p>There is a heck of a lot of speculation about the OP’s personality on this thread, based on nothing.</p>
<p>Notice that on MIT’s web page, they talk about a lot of things other than GPA and test scores. Did the OP mention any of these?</p>
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<p>The OP seems to be merely interested in only one facet of this particular school. I am assuming the other schools each have a list of what they value as well. GPA and high test scores DO NOT predict acceptance. If the OP has nothing to offer other than GPA and test scores then he would not increase his chances of being admitted by simply applying to more schools that have similar standards.</p>
<p>If the OP has something special to offer, he would increase his chances by applying to more universities as he might be the match that particular school is looking for.</p>
<p>Broooklyn-OP is just trying to figure out what’s going on. He is clearly academically extra-ordinary. In another Country his academic credentials would be examined - with a much more difficult set of tests btw - and as you stated with his knowledge he would have the choice of where he went to school. Doesn’t work that way here-I’m guessing he’s figured that out by now.</p>
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<p>This is only a sample of one, but heck, I’ll say it.
I have two kids who were lucky enough to be admitted to their first choices, one a top 20 LAC and one a top 10 LAC, in early decision. They were FULLY aware that the odds were stacked against them – not against them personally, but that at this level, the schools turn down plenty of qualified kids, they just don’t have the room for them all, and that if they didn’t get into these top choices, they were going to do just fine and not to worry. </p>
<p>As it played out, S got his acceptance and we had 15 minutes before D’s college decision was coming on line. As we were rejoicing with S, we were also emphasizing to D that this was not the end of the game - if she didn’t get in, she still had a whole host of fabulous choices for her regular decision, and that the very fact that they stepped up to the plate to swing the bat was what made them winners, not what some adcom somewhere said.</p>
<p>It’s been over 3 months. My kids are <em>still</em> giddy with excitement over getting into <em>one</em> school. They’re still at the “pinch me, I can’t believe this is real” as they are getting to know other incoming students, etc. </p>
<p>You can only go to one school at a time, you know. Here is someone who has acceptances from not one, not 2, but <strong><em>SIX</em></strong> of the nation’s finest colleges and universities, and is feeling “cheated” because some others among them turned him down. I’m sorry, I think that says a lot about personality and entitlement. And I would say the same if it were my kid. And blaming it on being Asian? Please. Give me a break. “I’m Asian” and “I got turned down” does not equal “I got turned down because I’m Asian.”</p>
<p>^^^Did this student say he was feeling ‘cheated’? Maybe it’s somewhere in this thread, but I don’t remember it.</p>
<p>I’m taking the first post at face value: my pals and I have stellar academic records, and none of us got into the very same schools that are worshiped on web sites like college confidential and by our parents, and by our parents’ friends. So, I’m starting a thread about it because it is something to do while I decompress and decide where I go from here.</p>
<p>I’m not Ivy League worshiper. My son’s record in and out of class made him an extremely viable candidate for Ivy applications, but he wasn’t interested. He went for merit money at the best schools that offered it, instead (quite successfully). He’s an independent, as well as accomplished kid, and I take no credit or blame for his decisions. His choice set included many of the same schools as this OP’s final group, so I most certainly am not inclined to disparage any of them.</p>
<p>I’m giving this kid a pass, though, because he’s a kid, and because his biases are reflective of the current cultural scene. I hope that scene changes, and soon, but I have to say, CC isn’t contributing to that change.</p>
<p>I also just think it is unseemly for parents to be both disrespectful and insensitive to high school seniors.</p>
<p>20more-</p>
<p>I am sorry that you and your friends didn’t get into the schools you were looking to, I wish I could offer something that would make the pain go away, it is a pain unfortunately a lot of people know only too well. Superbly prepared musicians go into auditions, play well, and don 't get the job, someone goes into a competition, shows great skill and artistry, and a lot of people think they were the best, and they don’t win…it hurts, because in many ways it must feel like being personally rejected, that someone is in effect the effort and such that went into you and your friends achieving what they did.</p>
<p>The answer to what you faced with these rejections is the same I would tell to the people in the stories I mentioned, that with admissions as with auditions or competing, there is no science to it and there is a great deal of subjectivity to it. From everything I can tell of admissions to a high powered school, the admissions process is a dark art, it comes down to the kids being admitted that year and what they bring, and it is so many factors that it is hard to pin down why someone got rejected or accepted. For example, as a hypothetical, you and your friends come from a certain area/region; let’s say, just for example, you live in the northeast, and the schools you mention were flooded by kids from that area, it is possible you and your friends all got rejected because demographically, you came from an over-represented region…</p>
<p>Part of the problem is there has been this overselling of statistics in regards to many things, statistics that may or may not have relevance. One of the common ones is that in school admissions, he/she with the greatest stats wins, so if you have a near 4.0 gpa, 2400 SAT, etc, etc, you will get in above people with less stats…and that isn’t the truth, in large part because stats like that are only part of the picture, it may get you in the pool, but in terms of weight it may get you in, and hold some weight in terms of admissions, but admissions are not determined by computers (if it were, they would use stats like GPA, SAT scores and the like to measure everything, period), they don’t say "okay, all those with 2400 SAT, perfect SATII’s, 6 AP’s with A’ls GPA at 4, all get in…okay, now we move down, those with perfect sat but only 3.9 gpa, get in…it doesn’t work like that, and blessedly it doesn’t, even though it does mean some kids who have hyperachieved don’t get in… Why? Maybe if they admitted only kids with uber high SAT’s (over 2300, which is like 1500 kids), then the school would be full of only one type of student, it would be like the school decided to admit only legacies, that would make their incoming pool very monolithic, too. What if the school gets a kid with only ‘decent’ stats, but the kid is a fantastic poet, or wrote a book while in high school that won a prize? What if a kid didn’t have hyper stats, but had founded a non profit that was doing amazing work?</p>
<p>And yes, there is a lottery element to this, since the application process is not totally objective. If a school gets a lot of applications from kids like yourself, whose grades, GPA, SAT scores and the like are all top drawer, with the requisite EC’s, but otherwise all seem to bring the same thing to the school, do you load up on that kind of applicant, or only take a certain percentage of them to allow bringing in Athletes, legacies, artists, dancers, whatever they are looking for, to make the school a diverse place? One of the things colleges try to do is bring in people from different backgrounds, different places and so forth, so overloading on let’s say math science types might make the school a lot less interesting and challenging. </p>
<p>I am not saying it is necessarily fair, quite honestly I don’t know what is when it comes to anything like this that is judged, but it is the reality. Were you discriminated against because you were Asian males? It could have worked against you, but I don’t think it is prejudice against Asians per se (if that were the case, you wouldn’t see the numbers of Asian students at HYP schools, pure prejudice wouldn’t allow those kind of numbers I suspect), but rather ironically because Asian students often excel in school and because large numbers of hyper excelling students apply to top schools, it works against them in part because of demographic balance and such, the schools are flooded, in your case, with hyperachieving students from Asian backgrounds, much as they are flooded with aps from white males from top level prep schools, and it works against both groups I suspect. </p>
<p>It might be if you were Asian females, there would be more chance to get in, or if your were let’s say a vietnamese male from Nebraska rather then a Chinese male from Massachusetts or Connecticut, you would have gotten in (note, these are all hypotheticals, I don’t know any of this for fact), you would have gotten in. I can tell you that odds are had someone from an inner city who was black or hispanic had pulled those numbers, they would probably get in, because inner city kids having those kind of credentials is a lot rarer then it is among other groups. What other posters have said is true, that because many hyper achieving students apply to top schools, who often have the same demographics (kids of Asian descent, kids who went to top drawer prep schools that basically spend all their time preparing kids for top level colleges, etc), they are not fighting against the general pool, they also are fighting against one of the ‘groups’ within the wider pool. </p>
<p>My other thought for you is while I understand the disappointment, to maybe look at why you put so much weight on getting into one of the schools you didn’t get accepted to, why it means so much. Do you believe only they can give you a great education? Do you believe that if you don’t go to a HYP or Stanford or MIT that somehow this means you will never be able to achieve great things? Is it because these schools are prestigious, and by going there it would be a way to say “Hey, I am among the elite, I got into HYP/stanford/MIT” so that means I am the best?..if so, question it, because you have achieved, you have done great in school, and got accepted to some really great schools, that in many ways can offer things the schools you got rejected from don’t. </p>
<p>More importantly, other then for some limited exceptions, what you do in life is a factor of what you put into it. The schools you mentioned are great schools, but for most things going to one of them isn’t going to buoy you up for the rest of your life, nor is going to another school going to bring you down (especially since many of the schools you were accepted at are top, top schools in their own right.). Once you get out of school, where you went, other then maybe the tiny fraction of snob appeal kind of jobs out there, like investment banking and some law firms, is going to fade to memory as you start working, it is going to be what you do that matters, so if you are worried that since you didn’t get into the schools you mentioned you wont’ achieve as much, forget it, it doesn’t work like that for most things you would do (not to mention that you can always go to a high power graduate or professional school after your UG, not going to be a problem if you achieve at one of the schools you did get into)</p>
<p>More importantly, one of the things that more then 4 decades of life has taught me is that finding self valuation from external markers like where I went to school, or what other people think about where I went to school, or the like is not a great way to go, external validation is nice, and we seek it, but it often is a false path. Obviously, there are times where it matters, if your bosses where you work don’t think you are doing a good job, that is a problem, but if you take validation from the fact that you went to MIT instead of Rice or University of Chicago, I would say to question that. </p>
<p>I feel for every kid who doesn’t make their dream school, I feel for the kids who worked so ridiculously hard, every one of them, and I wish if it didn’t work out as it planned that I could say magic words and make it hurt less, but I can’t. What I can tell you is that wherever you go, you will do well, and I am pretty certain that after you go to wherever you choose to go, and start learning there, that pain will probably become a distant memory. There were schools I didn’t get into when I was applying to college that I was saddened by, but I had a great time in the school I went to, met some really neat people, learned a lot and then went on to live my life and do some interesting things, many of which quite frankly had more to do with who I was then where I went to school, and I firmly believe you and your friends are going to find that. Where you went to school doesn’t define you, the whole “Harvard Man” stuff went out a long time ago (other then some very small, elitist corners of the world), and you got into some schools that not only are competitive, but in my opinion in some ways are superior to any of the HYP schools, or MIT or Stanford, and I think you are going to find you enjoy them. I wish you luck, and hold your heads up, you guys have achieved something, and if the admissions people at those schools didn’t see it, that is their loss, not yours:)</p>
<p>I am shocked by the animosity directed at this poor kid for expressing his disbelief in his and his friends collective misfortune. All 4 sound absolutely qualified to attend any university in the nation. College is ultimately supposed to be about academics, after all. I completely sympathize with him. It is confusing and frustrating to end up with these results. Why are so many berating him? </p>
<p>Also, I completely understand that many high schools have the culture described in this quote – not sure who it is from I think Pizzagirl??): Why is the OP going on about not getting into the Ivies/MIT/Stanford? What, are they all under some collective delusion that the Ivies/M/S are on some kind of greater plane and offer greater opportunities and more of a golden ticket than any of the other universities? ENd quote</p>
<p>Yup thats the culture at local high performing high school…the rest of senior year s…cks for those high performing kids who didn’t make the expected level of school for the rest of senior year…people whisper about them all trying to figure out went wrong…happens every year to at least one top kid. Its like one of Dante’s circles of hell. Hard to deal with at the ripe old age of 18. </p>
<p>20more – Pick one of the other schools who wanted you – work hard and go on to have a brillant life. Your odds can only improve in the future!!</p>
<p>"Yup thats the culture at local high performing high school…the rest of senior year s…cks for those high performing kids who didn’t make the expected level of school for the rest of senior year…people whisper about them all trying to figure out went wrong…happens every year to at least one top kid. Its like one of Dante’s circles of hell. Hard to deal with at the ripe old age of 18. "</p>
<p>really? DD went to TJ, which should be the epicenter for that, and certainly has lots of ivy mad folks (both asian and non asian) but it also has loads of folks going to our VA publics (well the top three va publics anyway) and a whole bunch going to assorted new ivies, public ivies, what have you.</p>
<p>Can we now stop the public flogging of a disappointed 17-year-old young man? I think it is abundantly clear where everyone stands.</p>
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<p>Except, the point being missed here is that he is implying in his OP that he was rejected because LESS QUALIFIED people were admitted. Given his reference to his friends all being asian, one easily infers he is complaining about racial discrimination.</p>
<p>So, change the scenario up: white kids come on and complain about being white and being rejected with certain stats. “4 White KIds”… People would not be so sanguine as to the implications in that thread.</p>
<p>I think that is what is getting the negative response, though some seem to be mainly hung up on the fact that there are schools as good as the ivies…blah, blah, blah. The original discomfort with the thread came from the racial overtones of OPs complaint.</p>
<p>I wish the young man/woman all the best. While sm points out that in another country the stats would drive the acceptances more strongly, this isn’t another country, and anyone is welcome to go to college internationally at any time.</p>
<p>influence:</p>
<p>flipping coins are independent, random events (assuming a fair coin and fair flipper). But college admissions, while unrelated, is not random. A great hockey player with a 2000+ SAT score has a wonderful chance of acceptance at nearly every NE college, including most Ivies (if they need someone in his position that year). Same test score but fair-to-middlin hockey player will end up a lot lower on the food chain. The point is that the fair-to-middlin hockey player does not increase his chances of admission by applying to all Eight Ivies.</p>
<p>“So, change the scenario up: white kids come on and complain about being white and being rejected with certain stats. “4 White KIds”… People would not be so sanguine as to the implications in that thread.”</p>
<p>My opinion may not be popular, but I really do see a difference. There are poor whites, there are parts of the white population that have been discriminated against for regional origin or immigrant origin, but overall, for the history of this country, until quite recently, whites qua whites have been a privileged group, either de jure or de facto. We have fought bloody wars over that, contested elections over that, etc. Its central to our national experience.</p>
<p>The same is not true of asians. As far as I am concerned, discrimination against asians is in a class with discrimination against blacks or hispanics. Discussion of it is not “racist”.</p>
<h1>233. OP already stated that he did not imply such things nor he is trying to complain. Could we at least take his words as true at face value? Why try to stir up more controversy and bringing up more race issue? And it is another big leap to say that he was implying that less qualified people got in. My goodness!</h1>
<p>Anyone wondering if this is an April Fools Day joke??? (Well, the thread was started yesterday… but one can hope…)</p>
<p>It is not an April Fools Day joke. </p>
<p>I thought the rejection notifications were bad. But, it is nothing compare to some of the comments in this thread. I feel like I committed some unspeakable crime.</p>
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<p>Bring MORE race issues? Take a closer look at the TITLE of this thread and the first two lines of the post:</p>
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<p>There is NOTHING coincidental about the description. The intent is as clear as spring water, and is so easily recognizable because there are a number of similar and recent threads on CC that clearly show the state of mind.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1115367-sadness-what-ive-learned-college-admissions-process.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1115367-sadness-what-ive-learned-college-admissions-process.html</a></p>
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<p>Fwiw, do you think that POIH missed the point when he followed with a discussion about Asian discrimination?</p>
<p>A lot of parents are posting on this board of things they would like to say to their own children, but couldn´t/wouldn´t because it would hurt their feelings too much, but on an anonymous board to someone else´s kid, it´s fine.</p>
<p>One thing people do so well is dissecting every word someone writes, especially if it could some how prove their point, often times it is when someone wrote it in haste or in anger. </p>
<p>OP - I would suggest for you to stop reading this thread. The discussion has moved very far away from you, I wouldn´t take anything that´s said here personally here. Most people are discussion more in general terms now - college admission of elite schools.</p>