Straight thru K-12 schools versus separate lower/elementary schools and a different high school

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1

We have had an interesting (at least for us) discussion in our family: which is “better” for a student to attend?:

(a) entering a K-12 school at an early entry point like K or 1st grade, so that the student/family doesn’t need to worry about high school admissions stuff like grades, SSAT, ECs, etc.; or
(b) picking a school that ends before high school and then having your student separately apply to high school.

Intuitively, K-12 schools are a bit odd to me now that I think of them as a parent. For example, if I had gone to one of these, without any change of school, it would have been shocking to me when I started college, after being with the same people, seeing the same buildings, taking the same route from home to school etc. for 13 years or so.

Also, can schools really predict at pre-K admissions time as to how good students will be academically in later years? Realistically speaking, won’t some kids accepted into K at the age of 5 be vastly different persons when they are 13 or 14? Will going to school with these children help high performers?

It seems to me that splitting the lower school and high school is a much better approach. I would think that a change of scenery would be good for all, as grade 9-12 high schools would GENERALLY have a better track record to judge their accepted students (e.g., several years of grades, ISEE/SSAT scores, recs, extracurriculars, etc.)

One of the administrators in our child’s K-12 school once told me that “research” shows this is not the case. I’m curious whether anyone on CC actually knows about research on this issue. It just seems to me that there is a lot to be said for the separate school approach.

I fully appreciate concepts like “you mileage will vary”, but what I am talking about is the fundamental concept of sending a child to the same school for 13 years vs. breaking it up for lower school and high school, assuming all schools are equally good.

All responses (except for a lock or ban from SkiEurope ?) are welcome!

2

Both approaches have advantages. To me, the biggest advantage to a k-12 is that the middle school years can be a time for mistakes and trying new things, without the pressure of needing really strong grades, working on test prep, etc. for example, I’ve heard some k-12s don’t introduce grades until 6th and then seek to “normalize failure.” The first half of 8th grade at a k-8 is all about applying out, and the second half may find students less motivated than ideal. Given how much my child developed over the k-8 years, it’s clear he was better off doing k-8, then going through the process to find the right high school. And since he was admitted to the schools he liked best, the process worked out well for us. He’s also learned to think about what kind of student he is, what
schools are a good fit, how to do well in an interview, all of which should serve him well when it’s time to apply to college. On the negative side, he’s going to have to adjust to HS while maintaining perfect grades if he wants to achieve his college dreams. And that is not likely to be easy. So students who are continuing at k-12s may have an advantage on that front.

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Depends on the kid. There is no one-size-fits-all answer.

4

@mynameiswhatever It really depends on a number of factors. Here the pluses and minuses. K-6, K-8, and K-12 schools allow the students to develop a long range community. What I mean by this is, kids coming in during the early years get to know the other students quite well. In general, this means there will likely be fewer cliques and more community. They are more open. Why? Kids have known each other since day 1. Also, kids who are slower than normal socially or academically might not feel as left out as in a school where they just started ( Middle school especially). Another factor, which touches on one of your questions. If kids begin in a strong academic curriculum, the school can address issues so there isn’t a gap ( hence it doesn’t matter that much if a kid isn’t the best student because he/she is still solid versus a kid who started later and may not have a rigorous background.
The size of the school matters. A lot. If the school is tiny. John/Jane is going to get bored with the same friend groups and they will be looking for more. This can also impact the availability of various services. Everything from special needs to advanced classes. They might not be available.
Honestly, having gone this route I would strongly suggest a K-6, or K-8 approach then a specific high school based on your kids interests and work habits. Not every kid is academic or sporty or artsy. Matching the school to the kid is a gift, if it can be done. Also, taking kids from very small environments and getting acclimatized to a larger school could be a good thing. You don’t want your kids high school years to be among a tiny group unless that is what they choose.
I think going to the same school for all 13 years would help kids who are academically or socially weaker. And hold kids back who want more academics or just want to be more fully engaged. Last point, in long term schools some kids get stuck in a rut of being the quiet kid or the X kid. When they go to high school or even middle school, they can often outgrow these labels.

5

I am at a K-12 all girls school right now, and there are positives and negatives.

Positives:

  • I’ve known most of these girls for 9 years, and they are like my family. I know all of them very well.
  • No applying out until college unless one wants to
  • Develop connections with teachers. I assume that high school connections are just as strong, but I get to walk into my second grade teacher’s office every week and have a long conversation about my life with her.

Negatives:

  • I’ve been with these girls for 9 years. I know them a little too well. I’m also going to slightly disagree with @Happytimes2001 my grade is very cliquey. However, I feel like nobody is really left out and there is a sense of that everyone is protective of one another. This might be different at another school
  • I’ve been in one place for 9 years, I’m definitely ready for a change
  • I’m very tired of feeling like every year is very similar to the last one

And of course the rigor of the courses play into this as well.

6

@misslilbookworm Is there enough rigor? We found there wasn’t. That was why we explored BS for our kids.

7

@Happytimes2001 Are you saying no k-12 is as rigorous as BS? Have just enrolled my DC in an NYC k-12 for 9th…it is generally highly regarded, and I was hoping for a rigorous education!

8

We did the same thing for all three kids: Montessori Pre-K and K … Private Day School grades 1-6, JBS grades 7-9 ( boarding ) Boarding School- SS 10-12. Kids were 4G BS kids ( on my side and 3G on their dad’s side ) so they really didn’t have a choice. All had wonderful experiences away from home and great college outcomes.

Best Thing ( in my book ) : All three have an absolutely incredible network of friends from all over the world- especially from the JBS-SS years . You can’t get that at PDS.

FWIW- I prefer BS parents over PDS parents. I find that most PDS parents are wound a little tight- So Mom here was very happy to get out of dodge after 6th grade , too. :wink:

9

I feel like k-12 takes off some of that pressure… you can always apply to another school for HS, but if you don’t get in - its not the end of the world, you still are in (hopefully) great school

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@Happytimes2001 I have found my middle school to be relatively easy (I only had 3 math tests the whole year in sixth grade). However, 8th grade is much harder, and I can assume that it only gets harder. My teachers are great, and I feel like I’m learning a lot.

The reason I’m leaving is because I really need a change in scenery and a better arts program.

@uesparent can you PM what school your child is enrolled in? If you feel comfortable

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@uesparent I think you inferred something that wasn’t said re: day schools K-12. We were discussing the OP posts and my own experience. Schools differ. There are some great day schools. And there are some great schools period. BS in general have resources that other schools don’t. When we looked they even exceeded many day schools. It’s just a factor since they have to have the kids there all day and all night. For example, we looked at a very highly regarded day school with excellent outcomes which didn’t have many of the programs which were available at all of the the BS (even those that were not as rigorous as that day school. The clubs and programs at BS were integrated into the school vs. being extracurricular. For example, having activities in a day school would take place elsewhere. We found many of the day students were active in things outside of school like club sports and other activities. That’s great. Just a choice. Your mileage may vary.
One of my kids is at a day school. We find it is vastly different. And I do agree with @PhotographerMom parents seem to be wound a little tight. Maybe this is due to locations.I really can’t figure it out. I think it might also be a number of other factors. The BS parents can’t hover as much. It’s interesting to us. No judgement on you @uesparent, you have to do what you think is best for your kid. If you found an excellent school that’s great.

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@misslilbookworm My kid didn’t even want to look at BS/Day school options. We looked to ensure that kiddo knew about all the possible choices. My kid would have been happy to go to the local public but decided on a BS after seeing all of the resources available. In the end, it was a great choice. And friends can still be found on vacation and online ( sigh). It’s great you are looking around for things you want and need.

13

I’ll add one more thing to what I said in post #7 :

" Best Thing ( in my book ) : All three have an absolutely incredible network of friends from all over the world- especially from the JBS-SS years . You can’t get that at PDS. "

The JBS- SS Network/ friends are not acquaintances. They’re very close ( lifelong ) friends because at a young age they lived in the trenches together and went through a war.

FWIW- I think ROI is on steroids at PDS and some parents believe the cost of admission somehow justifies it. Boarding schools don’t put up with PITA/ ROI parents . As a result- BS parents tend to be very easy going about everything… probably because we’re generally removed ( which is actually great for the kids ), and totally numb from paying 15-30K more for tuition each year.

I didn’t like the parent gossip at PDS either. It was gross to hear grownups talk about someone else’s kid ( or another parent ) in a judgmental or negative way - which was often. A healthy competitive environment is great , but this wasn’t it . I would just walk away or say I didn’t want to hear it. The kids weren’t immune to what their parents were saying either- which was really unfortunate - for them and the entire community . There’s only so many "teaching moments " you can have with your kids who witness this kind of stuff before the automatic default becomes - Most of these people are just raging @#$^&%*@ - ignore them.

Mother of the Year!

IDK- for us- the first year at JBS was always such a relief- almost liberating . I’d countdown the days with each kid !! I think that was because we found ourselves enduring our PDS experience rather than enjoying it. I also think the freedom our family felt at JBS ( and later at SS ) brought us all closer together in many key ways - and the kids thrived and loved being away on their own .

I just feel sorry for kids who have parents who don’t understand boundaries, or have parents who have to be intimately involved in every aspect of their lives. The academic piece at PDSs are usually very solid, but they can definitely be a breeding ground for bad behavior and ROI/ PITA parents. I like how all the BSs go out of their way to discourage or eliminate this type of stuff.

I’ll never forget the time ( ages ago ) a local PDS mom with an obvious death wish confronted one of my sisters ( Miss Porter’s alum ) about sending her first kid off to BS - like she was some horrible, horrible mother. It wasn’t even subtle. My sister just looked at her like some stranger and without missing a beat said- You may not have faith in your children , but I have faith in mine.

Like she was casually ordering a tuna sandwich.

Ouch. At a large round table with eight other PDS moms, including myself. I almost felt sorry for the PDS mom who decided to go after my sister. I almost said - You didn’t research that one at all , did you? But I didn’t- I was too busy locating all the exit signs in the restaurant .

TIP: Stay away from Miss Porter’s alums from a certain era. In fact- avoid tangling with any of them at all costs . They’re smart, super successful and lovely to look at, but they’re cold hearted assassins. :wink:

I have a brother who likes to throw his head back when he’s around her and in his best Gimli - Lord of the Rings - voice say, And they call them Daisies! … Daisies!!!

I crack up every time .

I’m not sure why I shared that, but I think it’s safe to say that BS was a very welcome change for many in my family. :slight_smile:

14

Small schools can be stifling and somewhat lonely for kids who aren’t fairly average for the school in terms of academics and/or interests (something you might not be entirely sure of in kindergarten). We took our children out of a small K-8 after 5th grade and switched them to a large public middle school. Although the change was for financial reasons, they were glad to be in the bigger pond. For high school, they ended up at a boarding school of only 400+, but it was a different kind of pond and they were happy in it. And yes, the level of friendships kids develop in that environment is truly extraordinary. But, as with everything, you have to do what seems right at the time…and if your child is in a K-12 and needs to get out after 5th or 6th or 8th, that obviously can be done.

15

Thanks, all. These comments are brilliant, and are evocative of the ideas floating in our head. As I said in the OP, “your mileage varies” and each student differs from the next.

One phrase that I have heard here that is golden: “Love the school that loves you.” I’ve said that to my children a lot in the last few days, and it is brilliant on-point advice. The other phrase is “life is what you make it”.

I hope we (myself included) forever remember this wisdom.