Strategy for Attaining Admission to Top Colleges

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
1

<p>A previous discussion, now closed, asserted that attending Exeter actually hurts a kids chances to gain admission to the Ivy League. It was from a parent who noted that kids from the LPS with similar scores/activities compared to Exeter kids were getting early admission to Harvard, et c. I think that the poster has a reasonable point. I don't think anyone would recommend choosing to go to Exeter for the sole purpose of gaining admission to an Ivy league school, as there is a chance that the exceptional student is perceived as being average. </p>

<p>But, what would be the strategy for this goal? If a student was talented enough to be an average student at Exeter, could that same student go to Concord Academy and be near the top of the class? In that scenario, would this strategy work to gain an advantage for college applications?</p>

<p>If it is indeed true that attending Exeter is detrimental to one's chances for attending an Ivy, what school would be better for this goal? </p>

<p>see prior discussion and this link:</p>

<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Polk_Groton_Grads.htm"&gt;http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Polk_Groton_Grads.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>What school should Henry Park have attended to gain admission to an Ivy, if not Groton?</p>

2

<p>Asking which high school Henry Park should have attended to gain admission to a lottery school cannot be answered. All that this question will engender is the same kind of senseless fomenting that got the other link closed. Who could have predicted that he would or would not have gotten into his dream school from Groton? Why is Groton the “problem?” Park had no guarantee of admission to a lottery school from ANY high school – nor does your child or mine or anyone else’s reading here.</p>

<p>PLEASE parents, understand that the point of a stellar high school education is just that: great preparation to hit the ground running at any college your bright, well-prepared student attends. Targeting admission to a particular group of colleges misses the point of BS entirely. If that is your goal, please keep your child and your anxieties at home so you can avoid the potential for likely disappointment (most BS kids DON’T go to Ivies), save yourself a serious amount of money, and spare the college counseling office the grief of having to deal with one more set of parents trying to hold the school accountable for a deliverable it never intended to provide. Boarding schools are “selling” great high school educations, not college matriculations. The matriculation list is a by-product of the education and experiences they provide and the ability of each student to absorb and take advantage of what they offer. They all end up in fine places, well-prepared to become productive members of society.</p>

3

<p>I couldn’t have said it better.</p>

4

<p>@ChoatieMom :x I need to meet you someday. </p>

5

<p>Thanks for the advice @ChoatieMom - though I somehow feel a little dismissed over a legit question. Almost like I asked what school will result in the most attractive spouse and highest paid job on wall street or [insert superficial vapid result that I must want for my child]. </p>

<p>Henry Park was rejected from the same school that I graduated from around the same time. I did not get a 1560 on my SATs and did not go to a school like Groton, but I did stand out in my rural public high school where 90% did not even go to college and never sent a kid to the Ivy I went to.</p>

<p>I would have much rather gone to a school like Groton but not at the expense of my college experience. My wife went to a top boarding school and graduated in the top 30%or so of her class and met me at that same Ivy. When we are deciding what school to send our kids to, we are most interested in the experience that my wife had and not so much what I experienced.</p>

<p>So the Exeter dad’s comments concern me because I want my son to have a fantastic education but not at the expense of an opportunity that might exist for him at a different boarding school (which would also be capable of providing a great education). </p>

<p>The implication is that the Exeter education is worth reducing your chances of getting into an Ivy (or shouldn’t factor into the choice to go there). That may be so, but this should be clearly laid out so that the shallow parents who want this opportunity for their children can go to a different school. Exeter and other schools like it should be working hard to get their students into the best colleges and combat the effect of how very gifted students are incapable of standing out at their school when they would stand out at other schools that are easier to get into.</p>

6

<p>I am not dismissing your question. I’m am saying that there is no guaranteed path to ANY selective college from any high school, so your student is better off focusing on just getting a great high school education and college will take care of itself–whatever college that may be. Your child is not harmed in any way whatsoever by not attending an Ivy (which is an athletic conference after all) and will NOT be surrounded by students or faculty of an inferior caliber at a non-Ivy.</p>

<p>What “experience” is it that you feel your child will be deprived of if your child does not attend an Ivy–and be prepared for the barrage of predictable responses that will follow, thus the dreary repetitiveness of these type of threads and why so few are jumping in. I say this as someone who walked out of an Ivy in graduate school because the experience was “meh.” (Now, if only I could get ChoatieKid to seriously consider Michigan…but no Ivies on his list.)</p>

<p>Fantastic educations can be had at more schools than can be listed in an acronym.</p>

7

<p>Because the title of this thread is “Strategy for … Top Colleges,” I’ll say, “send your child to Choate.” I’ve looked at the matriculation list over the past several years, and it looks to me like every single student gets into a top college every year, not a clinker in the bunch, but you have to expand your definition of top college just a little bit. I bet every other BS does just as well. ;)</p>

8

<p>This is a very emotional week for parents whose seniors are applying early to their reach colleges. It’s a time for emotional outbursts, which the parents might regret later.</p>

<p>Heartburner, you ask, “If a student was talented enough to be an average student at Exeter, could that same student go to Concord Academy and be near the top of the class?”</p>

<p>For those two schools, my answer would be, probably not. On Boarding School Review, Exeter’s average SAT score is listed as 2100, while Concord Academy’s average SAT score is listed as 2089. That’s a distinction without a difference, in my opinion. Concord Academy’s a “no honors” school, which is a very different philosophy than most schools. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t offer a demanding education.</p>

<p>Looking at the matriculation lists on boardingschoolreview (I’m lazy this morning), the most popular colleges overlap too. NYU, Columbia, Brown, Yale, and Tufts appear on both “top ten” lists.</p>

<p>I gather that Exeter places a great deal of emphasis on their students being the “best of the best.” (To quote the title of a book written either about Exeter or Andover, by an Exeter grad.) I’m not convinced, myself. I rather think that undue emphasis on one’s specialness translates into hubris. </p>

<p>I and other parents on this board have tried to make families consider a wider circle of prep schools, because many prep schools offer fantastic educations. In the end, I think many students end up at good colleges, especially if they test well and are honest about their strengths and weaknesses. If you’re able to pay full tuition for your children in four years, and they’re good students, they will end up going to good colleges. </p>

<p>The larger worry, for me, is finding high school(s) which will prepare them well for further education and life after. That would mean, to me, being able to write well, having some sense of history and the wider world, having read widely of the best literature, and being able to listen to one’s conscience. </p>

9

<p>I know this will sound radical, but we let our kid choose the school. Really, we did. I helped with a short list and then asked her to use the Boarding School Review selection tool and see what she came up with by inputting what was important TO HER. It was interesting… many of the schools already on our list came up, but so did others (some of which we applied to). In the end, the kid is the one living 24/7 in the school’s environment and if it is not a good fit (in most ways) then it will be a long 4 years. </p>

<p>To be honest, college was not really part of the equation - other than to assume that our child would go to the college that was appropriate for her when the time came. These kids are 12/13/14 years old… who knows where their interests will lie 4 years down the road. It could be that those interests would not be best served at an Ivy (for example!).</p>

<p>In addition, for us, a big part of allowing our child to go away to school was to foster independence and offer exposure to people/sports/courses not necessarily available here at home. Because of our goal, we felt it important to allow the child to “take the reins”. Obviously, we helped. But, I am saying that we were not really worried about college when we went through this process. As ChoatieMom said, we assume “college take care of itself”.</p>

<p>Kids grow am amazing amount in the 4 years of high school. I couldn’t presume to know what my kid will be interested in, nor her strengths and weaknesses or geographical preferences, or which sport she might discover and become great at…We just felt that, FOR OUR FAMILY, it was best to focus on the now… see what fits now and still provides opportunities for your child to grow as his/her needs and wants change during these crazy teenage years! </p>

<p>Good luck with your search. I am sure that HeartburnerKid will find a terrific place!</p>

10

<p>PS. I am not trying to say our way is the best or only way. I just thought it might be helpful to hear our thinking… we are only in the 2nd year so I can’t say if the approach was the right one. I CAN say that our kid is happy and loves her school and is very challenged (in all ways). I couldn’t ask for more. </p>

11

<p>@heartburn, implicit in all your question is that all boarding school parents have ambitions of ivydom for their kids. I assure you it’s far from the truth. Many fullpay boarding school parents are not wealthy, are really weary of paying tuition bills, and relish the prospect of their kids landing a fat merit scholarship for college, thus enabling the parents to retire before age 90-- the ivies don’t permit this. I am aware of many of S1’s high achieving school mates who opted for the merit money.</p>

12

<p>Thanks @London203.</p>

<p>Perhaps I should rephrase the question - can’t change the title. What schools have stronger college counseling programs and how can one assess this? I have found some resources indicating the number of students matriculating at Ivy’s +Stanford/MIT - but it is unclear how many of these students have hooks are legacies, et c. There are also many students who choose to go to Amherst instead of Harvard. Some schools are purposely vague - “Over the past 5 years, these are the schools that our students were accepted to…” and they then proceed to list every school anyone has every heard of.</p>

<p>Do colleges have a threshold for assigning academic rigor at boarding schools (i.e. Exeter=Choate=Hill). Or is there an understanding that selection and academic rigor at Exeter is different than Webb (for example). </p>

<p>Are students at some boarding schools disappointed with their college placement – The Exeter parent from the closed thread apparently was. I think that this is important information. How many students were accepted at their first choice? How many students were accepted at their “reach” school? How many kids with near perfect SAT scores near the top of their class (but without a hook) are rejected from choices 1-10 on their list. I think this reflects poorly on a school’s college counseling program. </p>

<p>What’s wrong with students and parents considering this important outcome of a high school? Things are really upside down when cafeteria food, athletics, and dress codes trump college counseling as discussion topics. The Exeter dad complaining about this was wrongfully criticized and shut down on this issue.</p>

13

<p>@GMTplus7: Agree. Merit scholarships would be another measure of college placement success. I would be interested in learning about this outcome from a school. </p>

14

<p>@periwinkle: Thank you for the response and your input. For many of the reasons you list, I think that the emphasis on Exeter and Andover as premier schools is misleading. I think that college counseling is another aspect of considering a wide array of boarding schools. Since entering this process, Exeter and Andover are less compelling schools in my opinion for many reasons. </p>

15

<p>I think that the level of disappointment is directly attributable to the goals going in. If the goal is Ivy only, then there may be more disappointment than if the goal is a good college that fits your child’s needs and gets him/her where she wants to go career-wise. </p>

16

<p>And there is nothing wrong with discussing things such as “cafeteria food, athletics, and dress codes”. If you assume that most of the top 50 prep school will do just that (i.e. PREP the kid for college) then the differentiating factors drop to the next level. In some cases, there is not a whole lot separating schools except the above-mentioned. If the ONLY reason you are sending your kid to boarding school is to get into a specific school (or set of schools) then, yes, there could be disappointment. And you run the risk of missing out on the joys and trials of living away from home in a community. </p>

<p>This is not an exact science. You are dealing with young human beings who change over time - likes/dislikes/goals could be very different a year from now, not to mention in 4 years. Only you know what works for you and your family. </p>

17

<p>I agree with you @London203. I just feel that there is a reactionary bias against a parent assessing schools college placement record and counseling services. There is an assumption that top college matriculation is the only interest that a parent will have when looking at a boarding school if they ask about this. It is almost like how a parent would be judged if they ask a fiancee how much money they will make without consideration to other attributes. Or if a parent forbids their child to pursue a career in literature/art and insist on having them become a doctor or lawyer.</p>

<p>Well, I am interested in finding the right fit for my son, but I am also interested in learning about college placement. The post by the exeter dad is interesting to me, even if it is considered vulgar and impolite by others.</p>

18

<p>Heartburner, I think the college counseling depends upon the head of college counseling, which can change. So I won’t say, Oh, this school is better than that school at college counseling, because whatever’s true right now, in 2014, could change in a year or two. These threads stay up for a long, long time.</p>

<p>When considering high schools, I would prefer a school to list matriculations, not acceptances. A few stars each year could make a list look much stronger than it is. I have been impressed, over the years, by Tabor Academy’s listing of matriculations by class quintile. I haven’t come across another school which has done that. If you look at the listings, you can see that some good colleges have accepted students from every quintile over the last four years. That’s a testament to those colleges’ experience with Tabor graduates. <a href=“http://www.taboracademy.org/Page/Academics/College-Counseling/Matriculation[/url]”>http://www.taboracademy.org/Page/Academics/College-Counseling/Matriculation&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The problem with measuring “first choices” is that it tends to incentivize counselors to advise students to underestimate their chances at reach schools. I see that when I look at our local public high school. Many kids seem to apply early decision to schools which would be matches or likely schools for them, not reaches. </p>

<p>Some student bodies prefer small liberal arts colleges to large universities. You could certainly ask, at an interview or at Revisit Days, “do students from this school prefer liberal arts colleges or universities when they’re applying to colleges?” </p>

<p>What would I look for… Well, if my child might be eating her heart out for a conservatory or arts school at the end of high school, AND the boarding school claims to have a strong arts program, I’d want to see some student, some time, matriculating at schools like RISD, Parsons, SCAD, School of the Art Institute of Chicago, etc. There may be creative students at the school who enroll at other colleges, but if no student enrolls in an arts college ever, that does tell you something about the prep school’s culture–at least the culture of families who send children to that school. </p>

<p>Does anyone, ever, enroll at a service academy, such as West Point or Annapolis?</p>

<p>It’s useful to look for the school’s profile; that’s a document schools give to colleges with the application, or at the time a college rep visits campus. That document should list things such as average test scores, courses taken, the distribution of GPA in the class (although they usually don’t rank), and a matriculation list. </p>

<p>Update, with your latest post in mind (#16): I think most parents consider college placement when making decisions. On the other hand, some of the worst stories you can hear through the grapevine come from parents (or grandparents) who assume that the world of college placement has been frozen since the '50s. It puts tremendous pressure on students, and there’s no reason for it.</p>

19

<p>It is fine. As I said: you need to do what works for you and your family. CC is just a resource, not fixed procedure. There is much opinion entwined with fact on these boards. In my case, I actually went to the earliest posts and read them… it gave me a better overall sense of the process and the pitfalls. There is much good here. We all want the best for our kids. CC has, over time, made me more convinced that the “best” is different for everyone. Human beings are too varied for there to be a “one size fits all” or “only one is best” mentality. My personal opinion, of course! </p>

<p>Unfortunately for you, there have been several cases over the past few years where certain parents ONLY cared about Ivy admission and felt it was a given right if their kid went to specific prep schools.I am NOT saying that is your way of looking at it but, because of those posters, you are feeling some of the fall out. Don’t take it personally. It is just that many people here (myself included) feel that there is more to the boarding school experience and decision process than college admissions. It does not mean it is not important. Just that it is ONE of the factors to consider. </p>

20

<p>

Often times the family does not get the luxury of “fit” for the child. Quite a number of s2’s classmates “overreached” with their prep school list, despite imploring from the guidance counselor, and only applied to far-reach schools. Come March 10, they had zero acceptances, and parents were scrambling to find ANY vacancy for them. </p>

<p>Had these parents been pragmatic and cast a wider, well-researched net, their child would have ended up w a better fit.</p>