<p>This is a question directed towards current students or recent graduates. I was admitted to Notre Dame under Early Action and I have been leaning towards getting an undergrad in ChemE. I know rankings and all aren't a good indicator of programs, especially one as diverse and difficult to quantify as engineering. So my question was, how strong is the engineering program at ND, and how reputable is it in industry and for grad school?</p>
<p>If anyone could compare the engineering school to that of Michigan and Ohio State, that would be wonderful.</p>
<p>Also, my goal isn't necessarily to stick in engineering for an extended period of time. I would ideally like to get into finance, preferably investment banking. I know many engineers are recruited into IB, so I was interested to see if anyone had any takes on how that field perceives ND as a whole, and if possible the engineering program. </p>
<p>And one final question, how do you think Brian Kelly will fare?</p>
<p>Your plan is to do Chemical Engineering undergrad, arguably the hardest major in academia, but subsequently turn around and do investment banking? Wouldn’t you be better served just getting a business degree?</p>
<p>I would second that one! If you are not planning to use a ChemE degree, save yourself the 3 am or later nights and almost non-existent social life because of the workload that accompanies an engineering degree. And, this would exist no matter where you attend school>it is just the nature of the beast; the beast being engineering!</p>
<p>Aside from being an incredibly difficult track, the chemical engineering program provides few opportunities for electives and additional minors or majors. I think a minor can be done comfortably if you plan early, but a second major would likely require some extra time spent at ND during the summers and probably some AP credit.</p>
<p>If you are convinced that you want to pursue chemical engineering after undergrad then enroll in the chemical engineering track. CHEG and other engineering tracks are often difficult to pick up (as far as scheduling is concerned) sophomore year unless you would like to stay a fifth year. </p>
<p>But good for you for wanting to pursue multiple fields. It may be difficult to get all the CHEG and business classes finished in four years but its good to be ambitious. Just plan early and weigh the pros and cons of your actions. Good luck.</p>
<p>Whoa, bosoxfan, I am literally in the same situation as you…</p>
<p>(Admitted into ChemE; going to try it out, but I suppose I’ll probably end up majoring/working in finance)</p>
<p>Personally, I trust that if I do end up staying in engineering, the ND network is strong enough that (assuming I do well) I can get a nice job, and I know that qualified ND engineers won’t have trouble getting into top grad programs. I’d probably want to get a Master’s before heading into the workforce.</p>
<p>Brian Kelly’s going to do a good job IMO. We still won’t have the personnel to be great defensively, but I think the D will be much better than last year. I also think people will be pleasantly surprised with the offense this year (though this depends a lot on who’s playing QB). Armando will be fierce and you know Floyd and Rudolph will be outstanding. BK has a knack for turning around struggling programs, and the 2010 schedule is a bunny. </p>
<p>First of all, ND is a great overall school and will be recognized no matter where you go in the US as a great school. While it may not be highly ranked the education and experience you get are top notch. In relating that to engineering, no we are not ranked high, but yes, we are getting a lot more credit. We have been having professors start to be recognized for their accomplishments and are adding numerous professors to the mix. Additionally, ND just build a state of the art $70 million dollar engineering (including nano technology) engineering building on campus which is sure to attract national interest and allow for more research which brings in more top professors. </p>
<p>Another note: Yes, going to an MIT will get you a lot more attention - but these ivy league schools and ivy-likes (MIT, Caltech) are extremely cut-throat. I personally was accepted to MIT and chose ND instead, because of the serious lack of social environment on campus - very little conversing and a dog-eat-dog environment. When you go to ND, you see a campus that is one family - helping each other out to understand the matter. Plus, the ND network branches out very far. Finally, in some engineering fields (I know of Civil, but not sure about the others) you have to sit for your license and once you have this key part, your place of education dwindles a little. In other words, as you gain more experience, the place where you got your education doesn’t matter as much. </p>
<p>Also, ND has a 5 yr program with engineering where you get you bachelor degree in engineering and your MBA in 5 years - though this is not guaranteed and there is a competitive admissions process. This may be an option if you are considering business along with engineering. </p>
<p>Finally, I say visit and when you do, go to the career building on campus and ask to see the stats - all good schools either keep them or know them. They should be able to tell you where students were accepted to masters programs and where they received job opportunities. In other words, visit, visit, and visit. While everyone here can tell you their opinions and what they know, the school itself will know the concrete facts.</p>
<p>Also, as for Brian Kelly - need I remind you what was said about last year - we have a great offense and our defense is young, but will be much improved this year and with a soft schedule we should win 10 or 9 games and go to a BCS bowl game. Reality: we got 6 barely got 6 wins (should have had probably 4-5) and declined the Little Caesars bowl (which would have been embarrassing to be in anyways). The key word is to be conservative. Yes, Kelly has done great things in the past, but I am using the lets see what he does philosophy. We were all hyped up this year about how great we were going to be and we were not. Lets just wait and see. However, the one area that I am most concerned about is California recruiting. Our top California recruiter (B. Polian) just signed on with Stanford. In the past, Polian was able to get recruits from going to USC and Stanford and go to ND. Now he will do the same for Stanford and bye-bye our California recruiting. Kelly can develop the 3 and 4 star recruits all he wants but until he gets 5 star recruits, he won’t be able to compete with USC, Florida, Ohio State, Texas, and Alabama’s of the country.</p>
<p>thanks to all for the help. and kevdude, the reason i am interested in pursuing engineering is because it is almost an unwritten prerequisite to climb up the corporate ladder (or at least this is what i have been told and have read in multiple sources; correct me if i’m wrong please!). but engineering allows you to branch out into many different fields, especially if your looking into grad school. </p>
<p>the drawback i see with business as an undergrad is that you are limiting yourself to a very specialized field early on, and the potential for growth is therefore minimal, even if you have an mba. on the other hand, a solid foundation in engineering coupled with an mba could do wonders for your employment opportunities. </p>
<p>this is the conclusion i have come to. thoughts?</p>
<p>I’ve never really heard that. I believe that an engineering degree can indeed open doors for both the engineering world and the business world, but based on the number of engineering majors I know who go on to work in engineering firms, and the number of business majors I know who are succeeding just fine in the business world, I have trouble believing engineering to be an “unwritten prerequisite.” A great resum</p>
<p>It’s true that an undergraduate engineering (or technical of any sort) degree followed by an MBA will open more doors at the executive level than an undergraduate business degree. </p>
<p>While there is nothing really wrong with an undergraduate business degree, it doesn’t really make sense to get that AND an MBA. And most fast-track business careers require an MBA.</p>
<p>I’m wondering whether someone might be able to comment on the emphasis that Notre Dame is putting on their engineering program. Really it’s not where USNWR ranks the program today, but what its trajectory is. I know they’ve got new buildings that have recently come on line, and they’re always in the hunt for professors. Would you say that they’re investing heavily in making their engineering program more attractive. or are they resting on their laurels? Also, any particular programs within the engineering college that are receving a lot of attention lately? If you had to order the particular programs within the college, how would you rank them in terms of student interest.</p>
<p>^while this may not be exactly what you are looking for - I do believe there are attempts to shrink the business school and expand the engineering number of students.</p>
<p>I’ve seen that mentioned on another thread, but I was looking for more of the reasoning behind why that would be. Do they perceive that the quality of the engineering program is not properly recognized externally, and, if so, what are they doing about it?</p>
<p>I read about a year ago in friend’s ND Alumini magazine that some professor’s comments that the student body has changed over the last 10 years, more kids are coming from wealthy homes and don’t have the drive to do engineering, but rather opt to the business school.</p>
<p>Coming from our ND senior engineering student:</p>
<p>Engineers are not second class students at ND. Financially, we aren’t treated like a program that’s just sort of there and is overshadowed by and less important than the other colleges within the university. The program gets a lot of money not only from the University in the form of new buildings and facilities (one of which is opening for the first time this semester), but also from corporations (Boeing, Rolls Royce, GE) who sponsor us to do research on their behalf. So in the monetary department, at least for the moment, the outlook is pretty good. Also, out of any discipline on campus, engineering students get the most intellectual respect from their peers (since engineering is widely acknowledged as one of the most difficult fields of study), while the business school - which IS highly ranked - gets much less respect and is usually seen as the partier’s major of choice.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say that the engineering college is “resting on its laurels” - mainly because it doesn’t have many laurels on which to rest. However, they’re working on fixing that problem. They announced sometime last year that Engineering was very high (if not on top) on their priority list for improvements. They also seem to be investing a great deal in Career Center and Alumni resources for Engineers to make sure that students get hired by top companies and that the repution of the school is improved in that manner. I had no problem landing a research opportunity at national university one summer, an internship at an international corporation, and full-time employment at another international corporation upon my upcoming graduation (I know that I landed my full-time job largely due to connections forged by the Alumni network).</p>
<p>Ranking the progams by student interest is a tricky proposition because there are a lot of variables that contribute to the popularity of a given progam. Things like difficulty of course material and high job market demand greatly influence the interest of the engineering students. I don’t feel like any one department is being neglected or favored over the others, but I really can’t say for sure because I’m only regularly exposed to the affairs of one or two departments.</p>
<p>I was also wondering whether you would be able to talk about how the ND engineering program is treated or looked upon by graduate schools (business schools and/or graduate engineering).</p>
<p>Notre Dame AL: I very much appreciate the detailed information that you provide. We’ll be heading out to ND for an overnight during their engineering open house. My son will be staying with a recent graduate of his HS who is currently at ND. Although not in engineering himself, he says he has many friends who are in engineering. He’s in Keenan Hall, btw, on the North Quad. I’m trying to get a room at the Morris Inn, but, if not, I’ve got a res at the St Mary’s Inn.</p>
<p>I’m sure the overnight and our tour of the campus will answer a lot of the questions that I have. I guess the issue is that I realize that Notre Dame in itself is a wonderful school, and I have no doubt that his overall college experience would be the best at ND. The quality of the Alumni network is also a major consideration, and I’ll be checking out the career services office when I visit. On the other hand, the engineering program is not as highly ranked as I would have liked, with, I believe ChemE being ranked 20th or so. Now, I know the USNWR rankings are relatively arbitrary, but I’m just saying that it would have been nice to have the ND Engineering Program more highly ranked currently. That’s why I was interested in the amount of energy/money/interest from within the Notre Dame community in realizing the the Engineering program should receive the attention that it deserves, and that they’re committed to raising its profile within the engineering community. So, what I hope to discover is why it currently isn’t highly ranked, relatively speaking, when compared to Engineering at Michigan, Illinois and Purdue, where he’s also been admitted. I truly want it to be an undiscoved gem, but finding out why it would be so undiscovered given the vast alumni network puzzles me.</p>
<p>I have a BS amd MS in engineering. You can best understand how a school gets a top engineering ranking by looking at where the professor’s got their PhD’s. Check out the professors at ND to UM, you will see a lot more PhD’s from “top” schools like UC Berkley, UI, MIT, Cal Tech at UM. </p>
<p>Do I agree this is the right way to judge a school? No, but it is easier for a top engineering undergrad into a top FUNDED PhD program if the letter of recommendation is coming from a professor that got his PhD from MIT than a recommendation from a professor who went to a “lower rank” school.</p>
<p>Also, you can see this bias in the USNWR “peer rankings”, if a student wants to got to a top grad school, go to a school with the higher peer ranking. The professor recommendatins will carry more weight.</p>
<p>The ND Chemical Engineering dept (CBE -Chemical & Biomolecular Engr) is easily top 20 in Chem E depts (the last time ranking were done-no, not US News). CBE grads are sought after and admitted to the top grad schools every year (MIT, Princeton, Minnesota, Cal Tech). Trust me, if you excel in the ND CBE program you will have many options offered to you. </p>
<p>For those wanting some business exposure we have 2 course sequence Integrated Engineering and Business Practices Program ([College</a> of Engineering :: Integrated Engineering and Business Practices Program](<a href=“http://www.nd.edu/~engineer/engbiz/]College”>College of Engineering :: Integrated Engineering and Business Practices Program)) that is now taken by ~1/2 of the engineering undergrads. Recent grads report back that they are teaching co-workers business practices as those students didn’t have such a program.</p>
<p>For the Engineering college overall, be aware that Engr. undergrads enter with the highest average SAT scores and graduate with the lowest overall GPA (compared to other ND colleges). In engineering there is much less grade inflation than in other colleges, and it is difficult.</p>