Strictness of regular Kelley admission?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Indiana University - Bloomington
1

<p>Hey everyone,</p>

<p>I applied for regular admission to the business school in February. My GPA last semester was a 3.57 but I don't think it will be as high this semester, though it will still be above a 3.0. In addition, I may end up with a B- in one class. Also, I had to drop A100 after the midterm because I didn't really have time to study for it and got a 60 on the first test. I am aware that the Kelley bulletin says that "students with ANY grade below a B are usually not admitted". Are they really this strict if a student is taking a particularly hard schedule? Here are the classes I'm taking right now (17 credits after dropping A100):</p>

<p>CSCI C211 Introduction to Computer Science
MATH M211 Calculus I
ECON E201 Microeconomics
BUS X201 Technology
BIO L104 Human Biology</p>

<p>It may have been a mistake to take this hard of a schedule on my part, but I wanted to at least minor (if not double major) in Computer Science and this is the best schedule I know of to open the door to that program as well as Kelley.</p>

<p>If it makes a difference, my other grades are as follows:</p>

<p>COLL-S 104 FRESHMAN SEMINAR IN S & H (A-)
MATH-M 118 FINITE MATHEMATICS (A-)
ENG-W 131 ELEMENTARY COMPOSITION 1 (A-)
GEOL-G 103 EARTH SCIENCE-MATLS/PROCESSES (A-)
BUS-K 201 THE COMPUTER IN BUSINESS (B+)
CMCL-C 121 PUBLIC SPEAKING (B+)</p>

<p>What do you think?</p>

2

<p>Well, the requirements read as follows:</p>

<p>Consistent “B” performance across all courses
Completed between 26–70 hours of college course work
Completed ENG-W 131 Elementary Composition or equivalent
Completed three or more of the following admissions courses:
MATH-M 118 Finite Mathematics
MATH-M 119 Brief Survey of Calculus
BUS-K 201 The Computer in Business
BUS-X 100 Introduction to Business Administration OR BUS-G 100 Business in the Information Age (only one of these courses can serve as an admission course, and you may only get credit for one) </p>

<p>At the end of this semester, you will have completed the following:
Consistent “B” performance across all courses--check (since your average is well above a 3.0)
Completed between 26–70 hours of college course work--check (since you will have completed 35 units)
Completed ENG-W 131 Elementary Composition or equivalent--check (completed with an A-)
Completed three or more of the following admissions courses:
MATH-M 118 Finite Mathematics--check (completed with an A-)
BUS-K 201 The Computer in Business--check (completed with a B+)
MATH M211 Calculus I--check (since this will count in place of MATH-M 119 Brief Survey of Calculus)--I presume this is the class you are getting a B- in?</p>

<p>I think you are mistaking the comment:
Consistent "B" performance across ALL courses
to mean that you have to have no less than a "B" in every course. What it actually means is that you have to have both a "B" average (3.0 GPA) in the four courses you take to qualify to apply (ENG W131, MATH M118, BUS K201, and MATH M211) and you have to have at least a "B" average (3.0 GPA) in all the classes you've taken to date.</p>

<p>My guess is you will have achieved both of these easily--and thus will be admitted to Kelley at the end of this semester.</p>

<p>P.S. You will need to retake A100 as soon as possible, since it a prerequisite for both BUS A201 Financial Accounting and BUS A202 Managerial Accounting--both of which need to be completed prior to taking I-Core (but you probably already know this).</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for the reply, Calcruzer.</p>

<p>I will be taking classes in both summer sessions to knock out some of the I-core prereqs (A100, K310, G202, A201, E202) and hopefully take a lighter load in the regular 08-09 year.</p>

4

<p>I now know four out of the five of my grades for this semester and I'm pretty sure I know what I'm getting in the class I don't know.</p>

<p>Here are the ones I do know:</p>

<p>CSCI C211 B+
MATH M211 B
ECON E201 B-
BIO L104 B-
BUS X201 B (probably)</p>

<p>That puts my semester GPA at approximately 2.97 and my overall GPA at approximately 3.27. I will be taking the following classes during SS1 (I decided not to take classes during SS2 since there was a scheduling conflict between A201 and E202, and several other combinations of classes I wanted to take):</p>

<p>BUS A100
MATH K310
BUS G202</p>

<p>I am expecting to have a much higher GPA for the summer session than I did this previous semester. When I signed up for courses for the last semester I made many mistakes: taking 18 hours, taking very difficult courses, and unknowingly choosing classes with foreign professors (L104 and E201) who I had a hard time understanding.</p>

<p>Fortunately my admission GPA is exactly a 3.3 (calculated from grades in M118, K201, and M211) which makes me hopeful that I can still be admitted to Kelley. I will make another post when the decision comes back, and I thank you all for your support this academic year.</p>

5

<p>Good luck, Wavarian! Do you know when the decisions will be announced?</p>

6

<p>If I remember correctly, decisions will be released about mid June (right after SS1 ends).</p>

7

<p>well i'm at the mercy of the admissions board. i got sick with bronchitis the last 3 weeks and it affected my performance on finals. i'm a freshman applying to kelley for next fall.</p>

<p>my first semester
k201 (A)
x100 (A)
m119 (B)
f111 - world music & culture (B)
a100 (W)</p>

<p>my second semester
x201 (A-)
e201 (A-)
x220 (A)
a100 (A+)
m118 (C)
w131 (C)
e103 - what is a myth (W)</p>

<p>i spoke to an admissions advisor and she said w's are not looked upon. i have two C's going through the admission stages. what are the outcomes from the admission board. the past year i haven't had a peaceful night of sleep this year. i've worked so hard. the fear of not getting into kelley has made me work harder than i have ever worked before. unfortunately the last 3 weeks of being sick affected my finite final. any advice/info would help. I really don't know what i'd do if i got rejected. I put too much time and effort this year. I wish there was a way to communicate that too the admissions board.</p>

8

<p>Here is what the Kelley Academic Bulletin says for Option 1 admission:</p>

<p>"To be considered for admission under Option I, students must meet the following requirements: </p>

<p>Enroll on the Bloomington campus. </p>

<p>Complete 26 credit hours of college course work that counts toward graduation. This course work may be taken at Indiana University or at another accredited institution offering a comparable program. (Students with more than 26 credit hours who apply for admission to the Kelley School for the first time should use the Option I admission criteria.) </p>

<p>Successfully complete the English composition requirement. </p>

<p>Successfully complete at least three of the following courses:
BUS-K 201 The Computer in Business1
MATH-M 118 Finite Mathematics
MATH-M 119 Brief Survey of Calculus I
Or one of these elective courses: BUS-X 100 or BUS-G 100
A minimum grade of C is required for successful completion of all courses listed above.
FOR ADMISSION PURPOSES, THE THREE HIGHEST GRADES ACHIEVED IN THE COURSES LISTED ABOVE WILL BE USED TO COMPUTE THE APPLICANT'S ADMISSION GRADE POINT AVERAGE. (If only three of the four courses are taken, the admission decision will be based upon the grades achieved in those three courses.)</p>

<p>Submit an application by the required deadline. Application deadlines are April 1 for fall semester and November 1 for spring semester. (Grades for all course work required for fall admission must be recorded on the applicant’s IUB transcript by July 10.)2 " (emphasis added)</p>

<p>Here's the link: Kelley</a> School of Business Undergraduate 2006-2008 Online Bulletin: Undergraduate Program</p>

<p>OK. So you have successfully completed the courses you need including W131 since you earned at least a C in each.</p>

<p>And, you completed K201 & X100 both with A's, and M119 with a B. I believe that equals a 3.66 admission GPA. The C you received in M118 is not a part of the calculation according to the academic bulletin.</p>

<p>Also, when you spoke with the advisor, did you ask them to make a note in your file regarding your illness? If not, it couldn't hurt to to send them a letter explaining why your M118, & presumably the W131 grades, weren't as good as you had hoped.</p>

<p>With recent threads regarding the increased difficulty of regular admission to Kelley, I can understand your anxiety. I hope that knowing both your admission GPA and your cumulative GPA are well above a 3.0 will help you relax a little. Beyond making sure your illness is noted in your admission file, there isn't much else you can do but wait. Try to enjoy your summer and Good Luck!</p>

9

<p>Retaking A100 and getting an A+ should wake them up.</p>

<p>I'd say that you should be admitted if you had some extracurricular activities to point to in addition to the grades. Of course, if you were sick all semester, that may be difficult to document.</p>

<p>The grades that are most important of those you took are:</p>

<p>K201, X100, W131, M118, and M119. In these courses, you have exactly a 3.0 average. As IllinoisMom2006, points out, the three highest are 3.66, and you got a least a C in all of them. </p>

<p>Usually, if you have a 3.0 in those (overall), you'll get in if the overall GPA is also at least a 3.1 to 3.2 or better. Your overall GPA is a 3.27 the way I figure it, so you should be okay.</p>

<p>P.S. How did you get into X220 as a freshman? My son has been unable to get into this class (including for this coming Fall semester) and he's already a junior. (My guess is you "sneaked" past those on the waitlist when new openings came up and people on the waitlist didn't immediately enroll;--one of my pet peeves about how IU's enrollment system works, I might add).</p>

10

<p>Calcruzer, you are SO right! An A+ in A100 is really remarkable. I would hope that would be a big positive in swift's favor.</p>

11

<p>Wow, I'm relieved to know others are in the same boat as me.
I had a few concerns regarding my admission too and any insight would be appreciated.</p>

<p>First Semester</p>

<p>K201 The Computer in Business: A
X100 Intro to Business: A
M118 Finite Math: B+
S100 Intro to Sociology: A-
X111 FIG Seminar: Pass
A100 W</p>

<p>GPA: 3.75</p>

<p>Second Semester</p>

<p>X104 Business Presentations: A
S275 Intro to Hispanic Culture: B+
E201 Intro to Microeconomics W
X220 Career Perspectives: A
RA Training Class: Haven't gotten grade, but projecting an A
M119 Brief Survey of Calculus: B-
A100 D+ (did okay on the midterm, stayed in the class, failed the final)</p>

<p>GPA: I think it's about a 3.3?</p>

<p>I am currently taking A100 in Summer Session I and am working for an A.
Also, my M119 professor said he would be happy to write a note to Kelley admissions.</p>

<p>I am really concerned though with the B-, the two withdrawals, and the D+
:(</p>

<p>To my understanding I know they take the 3 highest grades in the admissions courses when computing your "admissions GPA", but that is not ALL they look at correct? </p>

<p>If it helps I held a leadership position in a club, and was a K201 Peer Tutor 2nd semester.</p>

12

<p>Not to sound sexist, but it will probably help that you are a female, given that Kelley is only about one-third female. You have some excellent grades at IU and are obviously a hard worker. You should do better with A100 taking it in the summer with fewer classes and no Tiller. I think you have a great shot at getting in. Good luck to you!</p>

13

<p>Thanks. That's what I'm hoping for with A100. And just curious...where did you find that statistic about Kelley being only 1/3 female?</p>

14

<p>Here is recent undergraduate percentage.
Indiana</a> University Undergrad Profile</p>

<p>The MBA program was 22% female in 2005-2006. Probably a little higher now.
Indiana</a> University: Kelley School of Business - 2005 Full-Time MBA Profile | BusinessWeek Online B-Schools</p>

15

<p>I see barren_field also took BUS X220 Career Perspectives as a freshman.</p>

<p>Excuse me if I'm getting a bit peeved here, but my son is being forced to take I-Core as a senior since he has been unable to get into this class as a sophomore (or even in the upcoming Fall Semester of his junior year). Because of this, he is also being forced to change his business concentration from Finance to either Legal Studies, Management, or Entrepreneurship in order to graduate within 4 years. (Fortunately, he's decided he'd rather be in Legal Studies anyway).</p>

<p>Is there some secret that all the freshman know to allow them to take this class when sophomore and juniors can't get in?--Just curious....</p>

16

<p>Calcruzer, I was told by many that it was a good idea to take the class as early as possible. I know that when I tried to sign up for it during the Spring Semester it was all full...but then they opened up a new section later and I was fortunate to find out about it and immediately signed up.</p>

17

<p>Calcruzer,</p>

<p>I don't blame you for being frustrated. My son, who is now a sophomore, was able to register for X220 in fall 08. Presumably, your son had an earlier registration appointment than my son, so I don't understand how there were no spaces available when your son registered. Unless they opened up another section in between their appointments. Is your son waitlisted for any of the sections?</p>

18

<p>Thank you for your note IllinoisMom2006 and barren_field.</p>

<p>Fortunately my son is not required to take I-Core in his junior year to graduate in four years. Because this is the case, he is not signed up on the waitlist for any of these courses. Instead, he has chosen to try and get into the necessary remaining I-Core prerequisite courses (X220, X230, X201, and G202) in the Spring semester next year. </p>

<p>Next semester he will focus on starting to take classes in his concentration (business law--2 courses), will finish off his "distribution requirements" by taking a final upper-level history course, will take the ECON E370 required course, while taking the one other required junior business course (Managing and Behavior in Organizations--BUS Z302).</p>

<p>The only reason this is an issue at all pertains to interviews for intern jobs next summer--and to the concern that he may still not be able to get into these I-Core prerequisites in the Spring Semester. In the first case, he may be at a disadvantage in applying for jobs since everyone else will have finished I-Core and he will not have, and the second concern is fairly obvious--that is, if he doesn't get these courses in the Spring, then I-Core will be delayed, meaning his graduation date will be delayed, since there are still two courses he is required to take after completing I-Core.</p>

<p>As you say, that shouldn't be an issue. I guess I just find it odd that freshmen should have completed this course when sophomores have a very tough time getting into the course--as my son's experience attests to. Obviously, the reason barren_field and other freshmen were able to do so was because they opened up a new section at a late date. To me this is the problem. The school thinks they are doing you a favor when they open up these new sections late--but if you still can't get into them (since they are now open to students at all levels), then it is of no help at all to those trying to meet the graduation requirements. I can hardly expect my son to be checking the opening of new classes on an hourly or even daily basis in the hope that something new may suddenly appear.</p>

<p>If they would enforce the waitlist (that is, allow those with lower waitlist numbers to enroll first in such classes), there wouldn't be a problem. Instead, as barren_field points out, the new classes are open to anyone without regard to the waitlist on other sections of the course. (and they also don't send out any notes to those on the waitlist letting them know new sections are opening--which would be helpful if implemented).</p>

19

<p>Calcruzer,</p>

<p>I asked my son about the difficulty getting into X220. He knows a couple of kids who were able to sign up for the lab portion (X230) and waitlisted for X220. Accomodations were made for them to get into X220.</p>

<p>Maybe your son could try this strategy for Spring 09 if he doesn't get in the traditional way.</p>

20

<p>Regarding regular admission, does anyone suppose it's possible that the admissions board favors regular admits who were extremely borderline in terms of getting direct admit? I know that Calcruzer's son was a single notch away on the combined SAT score from receiving direct admit (1260 when the requirement was 1270). In my case I had a 28 on the ACT (which I took my sophomore year) and a 3.7 high school GPA. Obviously I didn't make the cut (29 ACT) but would this aspect of my university admission even be considered for the decision by KSB?</p>

<p>One might call this a strange theory but it may be one of the "invisible factors" to admission at Kelley. I suspect there are other factors that affect admission than the ones Kelley explicitly states (perhaps state residency for tuition revenue), but once again, there is no way to know for sure.</p>

<p>Still, if Kelley officials told students that the admissions committee was "looking for Bs" when admission standards were actually raised, I consider that an extremely misguided (let alone immoral) act towards prospective freshman.</p>