<p>I think the growth and maturing that a college atmosphere provides is helpful to have before hitting the audition circle fulltime. Of course, all students are different. But I think the years between 18 and 22 are a transitioning into adulthood. There is so much to be gained from experiencing living in the dorms, different college classes,etc, living away from home for the first time</p>
<p>I completely agree and I feel that it is a lost experience if a student does not complete their degree but I could see how it would be very tempting to leave college to go to Broadway as some have.</p>
<p>Just a comment about this aspect of the discussion, it is a rarity for someone to leave college "to go to Broadway", if, by that, you are speaking of actually being cast in a Broadway show. It only happens to a very, very small percentage of kids who are in college. While it's true that some college kids take a leave of absence to perform (usually on national tours), this, too, is a very small percentage of kids. For a teen just out of high school to "hit the audition circuit", usually would not be advisable, for many reasons, not the least of which is that there are few professional roles for 18 year olds who have little experience other than that obtained while in h/s.</p>
<p>AlwaysAMom.....your post is SO true. The second part of your post is exactly what I have been telling a student who thinks she can just hit the audition circuit at age 18 and has very very little training and very very little experience, not to mention that there are not a lot of professional roles being filled by 18 year olds. There are a LOT of unrealistic young people.</p>
<p>Thank you soozievt. It is particularly difficult to convince some of my son's friends who attend the PA school with him that a college education and experience is invaluable. That is why (to refer to my original question about the dual degree)I dont mind if it takes him 5 or 6 years to complete his education. All the more time to mature and enjoy the college experience. I will take your advice and see about a BA instead of a BFA in conjuction with the engineering degree if he is still inclined that way. I will be sure and ask the tough questions when we visit the colleges next month.</p>
<p>Matthew Morrison, Stephanie Block, Lindsay Mendez, and Susan Egan are all alumi of the school that my son attends and somehow the students at the school think that they can do it to. Thankfully my son does not have that opinion and is equally intent on an academic degree besides the musical theatre degree. I hate to see a lot of broken hearts, but I guess that is just part of the growing up process. It can be a disadvantage I think to have many alumni who have been successfull as it makes the goals a little unrealistic.</p>
<p>brit brat....just to be clear.....I don't think the issue with your son that people are pointing out is the fact that it could take him more than four years or whether the age he'd be is better or worse for hitting the audition circuit. And I don't think the issue is entirely double majors either. I think it is the COMBO of engineering and a BFA in MT that doesn't sound as if it is possible in any realistic fashion. </p>
<p>I might add that my personal view to relate to something you raised earlier about your son wanting a back up career and thus majoring in engineering.....I really feel that it is reasonable to do a BFA in MT or Acting and not do another major as a "back up". My kid isn't studying a second field as a back up at all. She is going full steam ahead with theater. However, she knows for certain she can earn money off stage but still within her field. She likes academics to become a person who is worldly but never felt she needed another major as a "back up." Some of the things you have mentioned seem more fitting to someone seeking a BA than a BFA.</p>
<p>PS...my D has several friends at her BFA who are graduates of your son's PA HS.</p>
<p>Britbrat....I think too many kids associate success with "going to Broadway." I think the goal should be much more broadly defined as I know it is for my own kid. I think if one can find success on stage, that is "making it" as an actor. Very few make it to Broadway though my D has several young friends who already have. </p>
<p>Just remember, that a degree in theater can still take you places.....one need not have a second major.</p>
<p>soozievt...can you help me with the "earning money off stage but still within her field"? We live very near to LA and we have an awfull lot of out of work performers in our area. Other than a being a teacher which you need a credential for, what are some other options?</p>
<p>I forgot. Is your daughter at NYU Tisch?</p>
<p>Yes, she is. Loves it. She is a rising senior.</p>
<p>Oops, sorry, did not see post #69, D was on phone from NYC walking home from rehearsal (which is when I get the calls, LOL). </p>
<p>I think there are lots of jobs you can do with a degree in theater....both IN the field and applicable to other fields. But speaking of IN the field....and to even narrow that down.....I'll just reply to what I meant about I know my kid can earn money in the field. She already is doing so and is turning down paid work as she cannot fit in another thing. This is just an EXAMPLE and not ALL the possibilities one can do in the field. But in her case, she also is skilled at being a musical director, composer, arranger, accompanist, singer/songwriter, etc. She is paid very good money to do all those things already and is telling me she is getting many calls per week to do more of it, professionally but cannot do it all. She knows that while she is out hitting the audition circuit, she will not be waitressing. She can and will earn money doing these other things as she is skilled at them and interested in them even though her main pursuit is to be on stage. Also, the fact that she is in NYC, let alone at NYU, has led to a LOT of networking. She just told me on the phone call a few minutes ago of more opportunities through networking that came up tonight.....almost every call home is of this nature. And that is still while being a student.</p>
<p>PS...to follow up on some earlier posts where you were discussing students leaving college early or midstream to be in a show such as Broadway or a tour....that won't be happening to my kid as she is adamant about not doing that and will not audition for anything like that while in school as she wants no temptations of the sort. She highly values and is highly interested in being in college and getting the training at this stage of her life. She doesn't want to be pulled away. There will be plenty of time for her to do that stuff but right now, she very much wants to stay in college. In her case, she will graduate college at age 20, soon enough to hit the real world. She doesn't want to give up ANY college. She plans to write and stage her own musical next year and doesn't want to miss any of this and finds the training to be amazing and helpful in her development as an actor. I realize some would not hesitate to leave college for professional work but she is not one of them. She is willing to do professional work, and does, however, during the school year or in summers that doesn't interfere with attending college.</p>
<p>Money off stage but still within field -- may depend on each student's individual skill set. Some with advanced music backgrounds can work in music direction/ coaching/ accompanying. Some do choreography. I know former MT students who have worked their way into tech -- stage management/costumes. Some find their way into the business end of things -- agent/casting agencies, etc. </p>
<p>Some turn to related fields that require advanced training, but which their MT experience enhances - I know 2 top vocal pathologists - one who started life in MT, one in vocal performance.</p>
<p>LOL - cross posted with Soozie</p>
<p>That's fantastic. I think we have 3 more arriving this fall.</p>
<p>Again, thanks to everyone for your wisdom and honesty. I am sure that much more will evolve as we get into the application process after visiting schools next month. Of my 3 sons, this one is the one that I know will be successfull in whatever he does. Not that my other 2 are not, they are just not as driven as he is and as determined to do something as he. Maybe he will be an engineer that does community theater in his spare time. I see him as a performer and that can be selective if it is not depended on for ones livelihood. All of this information is very helpful and I am sure that I will have further questions as they arise.</p>
<p>As the afforementioned son of SeniorMom08, I thought I'd chime in on this thread.</p>
<p>In regards to actual double majoring in a BFA program, I've found that in my experience quite a few schools will say it's possible in their curriculum because it's a huge hook for the academically minded actor/singer/dancer. I know that for me, Michigan's high academic standard was an enormous factor in my final decision and a few months ago I had every intention of double majoring. I ended up deciding not to for several reasons. The School of Music says on their website that a dual degree (a BFA and BA) generally takes 10 to 12 semesters to complete with an extremely full academic schedule (meaning likely 18 credits every semester). Granted I will be entering with quite a few credits already, but I don't want to lock myself into an inflexible curriculum where all of my classes are determined at the beginning of my freshman year so I can get out with a dual degree. There's so many great opportunities for me to explore (in both academic and MT classes) that I want the freedom to be able to pursue whatever I want and take some extra classes so I would have the skills to, say, direct or teach voice after graduation on top of performing. I think a lot of prospective BFA students (myself included) underestimate just how much time they will be spending in their department, be it in class, rehearsal, or doing "homework" for academic or studio based performance class. Visiting Michigan and spending a couple days shadowing students as they got ready to open a show (their BRILLIANT production of Carousel last April) really opened my eyes to just how busy I'll be for the next four years excluding that possible double major.</p>
<p>What's more, and this is ENTIRELY my own observation and not something that has been told to me or even implied by the UMich MT department, faculty, or website, but on the cast list in the UMich MT playbills it lists if the cast member is pursuing a degree other than musical theater (whether it be if the performer is an English major or a MT/English double major). If you look at those lists, the alums that are most successful (in terms of working as an actor, as reported on the all-encompassing alumni list that Michigan publishes for auditions) are not the ones going for double majors. What this implies to me is that because double majoring is SUCH a huge time commitment it takes away from the student's capability to fully engage in the department and therefore be fully prepared to enter the professional world. I want to repeat again that this is not something that has been told/implied to me from anything or anyone at UMich, merely an observation.</p>
<p>BritBrat, some very helpful advice that I heard a LOT over the past couple years was, "If you can do something besides perform, by all means - DO IT." As I'm sure you and your son both know, the "business" is an incredibly difficult, selective, and discouraging field, only magnified by the personal connection to our craft and the intensified emotions that accompany that. It's hard to gauge how your son's interest in engineering compares to that for theater and only he can make that judgment, of course, but it's something to consider. Could he be as happy as an engineer as he would as an actor? Is there anything he could do besides perform that would bring him the same joy? If the answer is yes, it may be wise to consider some non-BFA programs - this could mean looking exclusively at engineering programs or at BA, liberal arts based ones that would easily allow him to double major but still pursue a theater education.</p>
<p>ActorMcFamous' post is proof positive that within MT exists students that are far far more than "just" people that act, sing and dance. His post reflects remarkable intelligence, maturity and insight.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think a lot of prospective BFA students (myself included) underestimate just how much time they will be spending in their department, be it in class, rehearsal, or doing "homework" for academic or studio based performance class.
[/quote]
Well said. For those who haven't had the chance to shadow students in some of these programs, imagine the busiest time of your academic and artistic life thus far. That is going to be your normal day. Double it and that will somewhat approach what you will come to know as a busy day. My experience is that students who take all the normal academic and artistic coursework associated with some of these programs and manage their time well tend to average somewhere around five to six hours of sleep a night. That's why I sometimes seem a bit more than incredulous when I hear of people double majoring, etc.</p>
<p>I don't even take academic classes anymore at my school, but I did have to take a year-long liberal arts course first year. I remember being in the death throes of the relationship with my then boyfriend because he couldn't accept why I couldn't make time to see him if he were to come up for a weekend any time in the foreseeable future. He thought that I was blowing him off, but I was finally able to make him understand what my schedule was like besides just that on paper. His only response was ... "Damn." He was a graduate of a well-regarded architecture program where his department was known as "Land of the Midnight Sun," too. Needless to say, I've remained something of a "Drama Nun" since. :)</p>
<p>Also, I have a long-standing fascination with Russian language and culture. It just so happens that my school offers a course in it that I could have potentially signed up for this fall. Given what I know about what I'm going to be up against schedule-wise, though, and knowing the time commitment associated with that class, I just had to write off not taking it as another sacrifice for the sake of being able to throw myself completely into what's most important to me while somewhat maintaining my sanity ... which comes in a distant second. ;)</p>
<p>Actormcfamous. Thank you so much for your insight and advice. It is so difficult to think through and every opinion is valuable and taken seriously. I know that my son's passion is MT. He has been classically trained since he was 5. Spent a year in Manhattan at the only resident boarding school in the US...St. Thomas Boy's Choir School and then when his voice changed at 14 he began musical theatre. He has attended a PA school in Orange County, CA and has had opportunity and exposure to the "reality" of the performance world. </p>
<p>He has experienced his first professional audition with Nickelodeon for a pilot TV show with a call back to the music director and has performed with
current Broadway actors and actresses who have done master classes and "Performing with the Pros" at his school. This is NOT a bragging post, but a peek into what my son has experienced and the type of people that have formed his opinions. As I said in an earlier post, we have a ton of "out of work performers" in our area as we are only an hour from LA and most think that they have to come to LA or go to NY to find work. </p>
<p>My son is also EXTREMELY passionate about the environment and our need to find ways to preserve it. He has expressed the desire to research or work in a field that can do that. He is in an officer in his school's environmental club and math and the sciences come easy to him. He just received his AP Calculus and AP Biology scores where he scored a 5 on both. He says that he sees so many of his teachers that went to college in the music and MT field and are teaching part time at the school. Granted it is a PA school and the job is coveted, but it pays virtually nothing. Not for an area like Orange County, CA where it is EXTREMELY expensive to live. So, all that said. Yes, I know of a mother who has paid over $100,000 in tuition for NYU where her daughter has barely attended because she was successful in auditioning her legs off and got work on Broadway, but we have many more that have gone through the process and after a couple of years of working in the business, get married have babies and they are done. For the guys, they can't find enough work to make a decent living and have no fall back. </p>
<p>The competition here is incredible! We have so many non-equity theatres here that people are happy to work for nothing. We have teachers, conductors, producers everywhere. We have big theatres that have touring theatre acts, like the Pantages in LA, the Ahmensen in LA, the Orange County Performing Arts Center here in the OC. Many of the women that my son knows in the business are married and their husbands are happy for them to do whatever makes them happy working in the business even if it is inconsistant. My son worries about making a steady, consistant living. </p>
<p>I say engineering as that is the field that has the research and technology for environmental studies. He finds it hard to justify 4 years of education to find that he needs something else to sustain himself financially. He has a 30 year old teacher that is a brilliant composer, conductor, musician in general that has been trying since the end of college to market one composition. He has gone back to computer programming to earn a living. So please....HELP! I want to support my son in his dreams. I dont want him to be overwhelmed, overloaded with classes. It is just a little harder to convince me that there is enough work in the theatre world to sustain ones livelihood. Maybe it is where we are and all the real life stories that we here. We also have those that never spend a day in college and are employed by Disney or Nickelodeon before they ever leave school. </p>
<p>Happiness is greatly important, but earning a living is equally as important. Please explain to me the difference in an MA and MFA in MT because that has been suggested in several posts to me. Might that give my son the good balance if he insists on other studies. I did mention that he will be coming in to college with between 14 and 24 AP credits (depending on the receiving school and how they rate each course), so some of his course load will be reduced.</p>
<p>Again, thank you for all of this wisdom. I am happy that my son is away at BTP for 3 weeks so that I can sort some of this out in my mind and hopefully be a rational voice for him when he returns.</p>
<p>Brit - The statistic is 90% unemployment. I know people on here that will point out other avenues of employment with a MT education but I really doubt that will be as secure or as lucrative as an engineering degree. Engineers are in high high demand. </p>
<p>I think if you go this avenue you have to love it, live it, breathe it so deeply that you are willing to sacrifice and accept you may well be in that 90% unemployment figure doing whatever you can at whatever other jobs while you wait and wait and hope to find a role. I just think entering into this profession without accepting that possibility is silly. People may call me negative - I call it by statistics being realistic. </p>
<p>My son an artist in his 30's has chosen this path without regret. My daughter also chooses this path. But if stability and financial security is a #1 top priority it doesn't seem the right path to me for someone. I know a bungalow in Calif can run $million and then there is always hopefully children coming someday who will need tuition of their own. </p>
<p>As a Mother I just point out the obvious and support whatever they wish to do that brings them happiness.</p>