Strong linguistics schools?

College Search & Selection
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Do you think that initiating an (email) exchange with the President will increase my chance and/or lower the potential cost?

Oooh, I do have a special voice (not really mean good, though). To your knowledge, does Lawrence also favor vocalists or only instrumentalists?

Truman as a safe choice seems good, thanks! (partially because the suggestions so far haven’t categorized schools)

Now, if I work ‘under the table’, I might earn enough to survive the bills of the 4th year. But the nature of my aspiration is pretty heavy already, and although I have a pretty good health, I’m not sure I can pull off such a tight schedule. Still, people can do amazing things if they’re pushed to the wall…

Anyway, I’m looking at UA & ASU as of now, thanks!

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I seriously doubt any good outcome could be achieved this way. Trying it could even work against you. NEU gets more than 75K applications every year; there’s really no way the President can make himself available for cold-contacts from applicants.

Lawrence has a music conservatory, and they’re also very welcoming to non-majors who want to participate in music. There are choir ensembles at multiple levels. It’s not as if being a non-major vocalist is going to move the needle substantially, in terms of admissions and merit aid, but it’s another fit factor that both you and the school might perceive.

Any plan that relies on “under the table” work is inherently very risky and unwise. You’d be much better off attending a school that you can afford, even if it’s a bit more obscure, and putting all your time and effort into making yourself stand out in terms of academics and research.

This list might be useful. If the religious aspect of BYU would be tolerable for you, the strengths are definitely there academically, and it’s an amazing value even for non-LDS students. Most Affordable Linguistics Degree Programs

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If you’re at all interested in LACs, you might want to look at Haverford.

I’ve met a couple of young people recently who majored in linguistics there. Unlike you, neither had considered it in high school which suggests that some of the profs are very engaging.

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I was looking at the hidden part of your first post and saw this sentence. Are you saying that you are in your mid thirties? Have you attended college at all yet? If I’m reading this right, I think you would be more comfortable at a large university rather than a small LAC because there are more likely to be students closer to your age there. I don’t think you really want to hang out with a bunch of 18 year olds.

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Strongly agree with @me29034 . My suggestion was not a good one in your case.

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Noted and will not act accordingly.

Thanks, they sound quite progressive!

That’s what I’ve always leaned toward, too. IMHO, working minimum-wage jobs is not an efficient use of time.

Holy cow, I don’t know why this top-100 school was under my radar when I did my search months ago. Even their non-LDS package can fit right within my budget! While I’m non-religious, some of their tenets like no alcohol & no smoking resonate with me, and to achieve my dream I’d have no qualm with converting - unless church activities bite into my time to realize it. Thank you, definitely a candidate worth paying attention to from now on.

Yeah, I found my calling quite later than most people. Makes the uphill battle more difficult. I haven’t attended college, but fortunately with my self-taught English, I can learn about quite a lot of things on the internet. But now it’s time to dig deep.

I was rejected by Haverford last year - I mean, this year. Part of the reason is that I only read and knew about US schools’ financial aid programs late last year, and had just less than 2 months to rush everything. Didn’t even have time to ask around for the best linguistics choice like I’m doing now.

I don’t mind hanging around with 18yos… Because my plan requires me collaborating with people from many different fields, in a college environment it’s inevitable that I’ll end up working with a lot of young students. And no matter how young or inexperienced a person is, one can always learn something from them, I believe :slight_smile: That said, I agree that nevertheless, in a bigger university I will still have better chances to meet more talented people in more disciplines.

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BYU Provo is very competitive to get into, even for those students who are church members. It is academically rigorous, has students from all over the world because of the church’s proselytizing worldwide outreach, and is very good for foreign language study, for the same reason. Comp Sci and Linguistics are strong there.

Understand that Provo is, for Mormons, almost like Mecca for Muslims. Although the state government is ostensibly secular, the Mormon church’s influence is very strong in Utah, and especially in Provo. If the school were to take you, you would have to sign an agreement not to smoke, drink, use drugs, or have premarital sex - and they’re serious about this. It’s about an hour’s drive or train to Salt Lake (which is becoming more and more liberal - you can find all sorts of people living there). There are a lot of slightly older (mostly married) students at BYU, because of the practice of serving a church mission from about age 19-21, and then quickly getting married thereafter, and there are many graduate departments, too.

Honestly, knowing that you are a non-traditional student with a hyperfocus on linguistics and computational as applied to socio/anthro linguistics, and not much money, I think it’s a good place for you to submit an application, but it’s nowhere near a sure thing to get in.

If you want to consider joining the Mormon church, in order to enhance your chances of being accepted at BYU, it is extremely easy and convenient to do so. There are Mormon missionaries all over the world, who would be absolutely delighted to meet with you in your home or at their church, and teach you all about their church.

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Thanks. I think while my focus will surely be linguistics, I’d not try to be among the best there are. Instead I’ll aim to be just good enough and to build a diverse team that’s capable to carrying out this difficult task. The biggest challenge would be how to find the right partners and how to persuade them to join hands.

Would being a Mormon affect my chance of getting in another uni? AFAIK there are some colleges that are quite secular, and there are some that follow other branches of Christianity…

So far, there are some names that get repeated here such as UMassA, Lawrence & BYU. Based on my info, which categories would you guys put them into (reach / target / safe)?

Also, I have a question regarding the status of public / private of US unis. Is it a rule of thumb that public schools are always “hostile” toward intl students, i.e. no significant aid at all?

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No other school will know or care whether you’ve joined the LDS church, unless you were to apply to one of a handful of strongly faith-based institutions, none of which have been mentioned. Mainstream universities with historical church affiliations are open to all and do not require any sort of religious disclosure.

It’s really hard to “chance” international students. I don’t think you can equate non-allocation of aid to “hostility.” The California publics, for example, are no more “hostile” toward international students than toward out-of-state domestic students; they simply reserve all need-based aid for in-state families whose taxes support the UC system. Non-CA students are full-pay and generate revenue. That’s just the reality.

It’s a different version of the same story with many universities that are prestigious but don’t have the multi-billion-dollar endowments that allow the HYPSM schools to admit need-blind and meet full documented need for international as well as domestic students. For schools like Northeastern, going need-blind/full-need-met for domestic students is a stretch, and an infusion of full-pay international students is what gets their budget to balance. They actively court full-pay students from overseas (who can sometimes get in with less-stellar qualifications than domestic students need to gain acceptance), but they’re not allocating many resources at all for high-need international students.

Some public U’s that are known for generous merit for high-stat students (U of Alabama is a frequently-cited example) will give those same merit deals to international students as well. However, you’re in a trickier spot as a non-traditional student without a strong/recent high school transcript to bank on. Your strong standardized test scores definitely validate your ability, but most schools don’t give big merit money based on scores alone - it’s HS GPA (or class rank) plus scores that can secure big merit awards. This is why the lower-sticker-price schools are probably your best bet, unless a super-reach happens to pan out for you. (And even then, I’m not clear on what your documented need would look like. Have you run Net Price Calculators for some particularly-generous schools like MIT/Stanford? Getting into one of these is wildly unlikely but the NPC estimates would be informative as a best case scenario.)

So, “chancing” you requires, not only an understanding of the average qualifications of accepted students, but also an assessment of how being an international student shifts your chances. And really, what’s meaningful to you is not just whether you can get in, but whether you can get in with enough aid to attend. Lawrence, for example, wouldn’t be a reach (IMO) for mere acceptance, but it’s still a reach in terms of getting the big merit award you would need. Assessing UMass is more complicated because of variable competitiveness by major and by geography… but overall I think the same is true - it’s a reach to get in and get enough merit to attend.

For public U’s, you can also start out at a community college that has a guaranteed transfer agreement with your target university. But that will mean two years of churning out general education requirements, with few actual linguistics courses available until after you transfer. If I were you, I’d rather go to a school like Truman State and get started on my major right away.

BYU at the LDS-member rate would be a huge score for a very well-regarded program, and becoming LDS would enhance your admissions chances in addition to lowering the price. Whether you’d actually want to consider church membership is a very personal decision; there’s a lot more to it than just the various abstentions. As parentologist said, there are almost certainly young missionaries in your area who would be more than eager to explain the tenets and requirements of their faith, so that you can make an informed decision.

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@aquapt , my deep appreciation for the insights.

Yep, for the lack of command in English, I couldn’t come up with a better word. I should have used something like “non-accommodating” to make it softer :stuck_out_tongue:

I have an idea just now! What if I prioritize “just getting in a decent institution”, study diligently for the 1st year, and transfer to a more prestigious, all-needs-met school for the rest of college time?

As per your analysis, I can see that the biggest obstacles between me and US colleges are

  • Not convincing enough evidence of brilliance: test score is self-reported, and lack of GPA. A year in the US will provide me with an impressive GPA if I work hard enough. It will also give me solid recommendation letters, as opposed to the situation now. What’s more, immersion in English will likely push my test scores higher, should I try SAT or ACT again. But I don’t know the policy of unis regarding transfer: is 1st-year GPA enough for them to judge, or does they still require HS record?
  • Not being an archetypal “international cash cow”: there’s little I can do about this. However, I do have some small inventions that I hope can turn into money once I got there. I know that reality is far-fetched, but clearly even a little chance of making more money is better than no chances at all.

There are some advantages and disadvantages of this approach that I can think of right now:

  • Since most US colleges use a curriculum that leaves 1st year for ‘general’ learning, I’d not miss much content in linguistics. This significantly enlarge my pool of choices, because my 1st-year school need not to have a strong linguistics department - it doesn’t even need to have linguistics major/minor in extreme cases.
  • On the other hand, I’d have more opportunities to connect with talented people, because I’d attend effectively 2 colleges.
  • My savings can cover 1 year of even the most expensive education out there. My 2nd, 3rd & 4th year contribution will be irrelevant if I land into a all-needs-met college.
  • The downside of this strategy is that, if I can’t transfer out then I’m fukced with a huge bill. And I may be stuck with a weak ling dept / sub-optimal major.

Its seems that the key clings on how well I can do in the 1st year - which I have faith in myself. If I’m to follow this strategy, my criteria would be reduced to something like reputation (60%), easy to connect with talents (30%) and linguistics (10%). Reputation is most important because the transfer jump can only get me so high, much like nobody can move straight from community college to MIT.

What do you guys think of this idea?

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I think that you should not factor transferring into your plan. Even if you were to get a 4.0 your first semester, it’s unlikely that you would be accepted to a ‘meets full fin need for int’l students’ institution for transfer - plus, you DO have resources. You say you have about 100K.

The English/Reading sections of the ACT are easier for non-native speakers of English than the English section of the SAT. So in your case, I would not plan for taking an SAT. I would do intensive prep for the ACT by practicing with released exams, and try it again. For public universities that have linguistics and tend to offer big merit money (int’l students are eligible for merit money), a high ACT score would be impressive.

If I were in your position, a non-traditional student with a very strong uncommon academic interest (sounds as if you’re trying to develop a new and improved version of the Esperanto project idea), I’d put in applications now to not very selective public schools that offer big merit money for high-achieving students, that have a ling dep’t, and whose application deadline hasn’t passed. The U of Arizona fits that, and its deadline is May 2, 2022 to start in Fall 2022. That is also the deadline for applying for merit money. I doubt that there is another school on the list of schools that have undergrad linguistics that fits all your requirements, and that hasn’t had their application and merit money deadlines for Fall '22 pass by already.

If you want to do this, with you being in your 30’s. I don’t know why you would want to wait to apply for Fall '23.

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I didn’t know about that, thank you!

I do plan to use my savings to the last cent if necessary. In this transfer idea, if I pay, say, $65k for 1st year at some school, then I’m willing to pay $14k/year for the remaining 3 years at another college. That raises another question of how different policies regarding freshmen are compared to transfer students. It looks like for several schools, transfers may not enjoy full-needs-met like their own freshmen.

Woah, somehow I missed that while navigating the mess of UoA’s websites! From what I read, they seem to offer generous merit money to students who possess impressive HS GPA - something I don’t really have. I’ve sent them email asking about other types of aid. In any case, with my documents ready, I can finish the app within a day.

You’re right. If things are all well, I want to start right this fall. However, I also figured that this IAL project will likely be life-long: after the creation phase, there will be a propagation phase that requires all kinds of resources and marketing and span dozens of years. Thus, paradoxical as it may sound, I think while it’s really nice to be able to begin right away, being delayed for a year is not catastrophic either.

That’s why for this topic, I want to focus on Fall’23 options. Last (this) year I didn’t know a thing about US higher edu system, and I see my previous rushed applications as an attempt to learn how the admission process works.

As for the UoA case, the expected cost for intl students is in the 60k+ range, and even accounting for merit (which I’m not sure how much but can’t be more than 25k, right?), I won’t be able to pay for all 4 years, so it can only fit for the transfer route…

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From @tsbna44 's link I’ve been able to filter some more: Carleton, Macalester and Reed. What do you think of these schools?

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Depending on your GPA, you may want to consider the University of South Florida. On its international student scholarship page it looks like you might get about $12k/year. It’s in a big city (so there may be non-students interested in getting involved with your project) and there are other universities nearby as potential pools of collaborators. There are 32,000 students at USF alone, so you have good odds of finding others who would be interested in your project. With the $12k scholarship your costs would probably be around $26k, as I think costs are about $38k including required insurance.

The University of Kansas is another option to consider, one that offers scholarships up to full tuition for international applicants. Tuition, room and board run around $37k before any scholarships are awarded. There are about 17k students here and I’ve heard that Lawrence is a wonderful town to live in.

University of Mississippi also offers generous international scholarships, ranging from $3900 to nearly $23,500. This university of 16,000 students costs around $35k for tuition, room & board.

U. of North Dakota probably costs about $30k for tuition, room, & board. But international students don’t seem to be excluded from the automatic scholarships, based on GPA, that go up to $14k a year. There are about 9k undergrads, so smaller than the other options, but not a small university at all.

Georgia State might be worth digging into a little. A cursory glance at its website didn’t show scholarships specifically for international students, but I didn’t do a good search of the database. One of the special things about Georgia State is its location in Atlanta, which is a very cosmopolitan city, but also has a consortium where students can take classes at any of the other universities in the consortium. Some of the universities in the consortium include Georgia Tech, Emory, Spelman, and others. So in addition to the 28k students at Georgia State, there are many more options for collaborators in the area. Tuition, room & board is about $43k before any merit aid would apply.

Portland State offers scholarships for international students ranging from $3-10k. Additionally, they have tuition remission of about $3200/term for international students who do 90 hours of presentations to local community groups. And international students are eligible for other university-wide scholarships. Tuition, room & board is about $42k here. Portland is a big city with many other universities in the area, including Reed, Lewis & Clark, U. of Portland, etc. in addition to Portland State’s 16k students. The city is a biking mecca, so you will have an easier time getting around the city than in other places that are more based on private car transportation, for those times when you do want to leave campus.

Cleveland State offers scholarships for international applicants as well, but the amounts are unclear. But the university is about $39k for tuition, room & board, books, and insurance. There are around 10k undergrads here, and it’s a 3 mile walk from Cleveland State to Case Western, where there are thousands of other potential collaborators. There are also many other universities in the area to find people who might be interested in your project.

Macalester, Carleton, & Reed are excellent colleges. Carleton doesn’t offer merit aid, I believe, and I think it would be quite challenging to get their prices to meet your budget. Plus, they’re all smaller schools so smaller pools of people to find the collaborators you desire.

Truman is a great financial safety.

One other university to consider, which would be a bit of a reach, is U. of Minnesota. It offers scholarships to international students from $10-25k, I believe. If you got the $25k amount then the U. of Minnesota would fall into your budget.

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Portland State is a great suggestion. I didn’t know about the tuition remission deal, or I would have suggested it earlier. You could also save money by starting out at Portland City College and transferring into PSU - lots of students do that, and there’s a lot of overlap both in the student community, and in terms of faculty who teach at both institutions. There’s even privately-run student housing where both PCC and PSU students can live. ( CHNW.org and https://www.americancampus.com/student-apartments/or/portland/university-pointe-at-college-station?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&gclid=CjwKCAjwjtOTBhAvEiwASG4bCHN2FMhIM6MiWZZr27XQf6PjhJPx0mrqnkUyStEsozB3gsvT3fYx_RoCrhEQAvD_BwE are two - there may be others) PSU is also great for nontraditional students, as more than a third of the students are over 25.

I don’t think you should matriculate anywhere without a clear path to graduation. This means either starting somewhere that you can stay and complete your degree, or starting at a community college with a guaranteed transfer pathway to a four-year school that you find acceptable. You can always apply to some reach schools as a transfer, but flying without a net isn’t a good idea.

As far as when to start, you don’t necessarily have to wait to apply for the Fall 2023 cycle. Both BYU and Truman State accept students mid-year. Portland State might too, I’m not sure… but you could certainly start at PCC at any time. International Student Admissions | International Students at PCC Just make sure you look into the PSU merit and waiver that AustenNut mentioned - not sure if the same deals are available if you apply as a CC transfer.

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I was reading this article and saw this passage about Georgia State that made me think it might interest you. This is a brief excerpt:

However, not all experiential learning during college happens within a course or degree program. For instance, through Georgia State University’s Digital Learners to Leaders initiative, teams of students work on solving problems within the local community through the use of digitization and the internet of things.

“It’s not tied to their GPA,” said Tiffany Green-Abdullah, assistant director of learning community development. “When students are trying to learn something new, that can kind of hurt you sometimes.”

Students in the program come from a wide variety of backgrounds; the current cohort has 55 students across 33 majors. This setup, Green-Abdullah said, gives students who aren’t in tech-focused majors the chance to work on the skills needed to thrive in the digital economy.

As the teams go through the program, they learn from and receive feedback from professionals across different industries, which gives them insight into how to carry out and improve their projects.

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Also, please note that most undergraduate students don’t get to work on massive, cross-disciplinary projects of their own devising. They spend the first couple of years taking introductory courses in their field, and “general education” courses in a wide range of subjects. Then as a junior or senior they may start to take more advanced courses. A student can apply to be a research assistant in a lab, or work with faculty on a research project, but usually that work is tied to what the faculty member is working on, not a project that the student has initiated.

Now, of course students can work on whatever they want on their own time, but I wanted to make sure you understood what an American undergraduate education is likely to be like.

Graduate school is more aligned to what you seem to be envisioning, but even then, many students don’t get to work on their own project but still have to find a subset of their faculty advisor’s project to carve out for their own.

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Very true, unless you go to a very “alternative” school where you build your own program. Evergreen State in Washington is one example - relatively affordable, but few course offerings in Linguistics so probably not a good choice. Then there’s Hampshire, in the 5-College Consortium in MA. Leaving aside their financial stability issues, this could be an ideal school for you, because you could take Linguistics classes at UMass through the consortium but assemble your own educational path via Hampshire’s very flexible educational model. Language, Linguistics, and Translation Studies | Hampshire College The question here is whether there’s any chance of affordability. Hampshire gives a fair amount of merit but I don’t know if you could get enough. Apparently they give one international full ride scholarship and two full-tuition scholarships, per year, in addition to the smaller merit awards: Financial aid for international students | Hampshire College

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Woah, their website shows that in order to get the highest “Presidential Waiver”, one just needs 1340+ SAT? I took a practice test on KhanAcademy the other day, and got 1590. However, my lack of GPA will f*ck me up bad. Even if the AOs could convert my transcript into GPA, it’d not be stellar because I was kinda lost and unmotivated back then, plus my school was a gifted one with a difficult curriculum. Thus I intend to follow my course, stated in another thread, of ignoring the scholarships altogether. Nevertheless, I’ll send mails to ask those schools you mentioned about the possibility of exception to their GPA requirements. The offers seem too good to bypass without investigation - thanks!

From what I read, it seems they meet full need. So the challenge is only how to get in.

I couldn’t agree more… Yet, this whole endeavor is risky from the start. With my savings, I could just live comfortably in my country without - or with - leisured work for the rest of my life. Going to the US will see my money burn at a painfully alarming rate, in exchange for a bigger opportunity to help make a better world. It sounds crazy, and even I doubt it at times; but the choice was made.

That’s somewhat remotely related to what I plan for the project. The irony is that in order to participate in a ‘not-GPA-tied’ program, one must pass the admission process, which has lots of things to do with GPA.

And here I thought we only have to wade through the freshman general year :slight_smile: That’s fairly OK, though: I’ll spend 1-2 year focusing on making connections. And to be honest, research is not the big part of the project. It’s much more about execution and secular activities - marketing, for example.

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You have made several references to your ultimate goal being a grand linguistics project, with you gathering a multitude of experts and getting grants to fund their work. You have implied that the UG degree you are investigation is largely a means to getting the contacts and funding to make the project happen.

IMO, you need to recalibrate. Why not do a 3-year BA in Linguistics (in English) at Utrecht (Netherlands), for about €11K/yr (tuition- you need to add cost of living). As a full-time student in the EU, you can work 120 days/year, so you could get a decent summer job for the 2 summers. Then get a 1 year Masters in Linguistics - by then you will know more about what you need to know, and apply for funded PhD programs, making your grand project be the core of your Statement of Purpose, and applying to programs that have profs who find your project interesting.

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