Trying to brainstorm or cross reference for a middle class (60k income), international student.
good merit scholarships (or good financial aid)
+
very strong at math
An added difficulty is that graduate Math programs tend to be snooty and the student already nows he wants to go straight for a Math PHD and do research.
LAC, honors college… all okay. No test scores yet but if the scores aren’t in line, I have other suggestions already.
I can think of Reed, Williams, HarveyMudd for meet need colleges, but they’d be lottery schools. So I’m trying to figure out if there are less known LACs with good aid and great math dept, and/or public universities with good merit aid and math.
Any idea?
Also, if you know the graduate math program world, would a BS from UAlabama or Temple be sufficient to get into an MIT* PHD in math?
(* or similar)
Doesn’t U Rochester offer need based aid to at least some international students? You’d have to check. I seem to recall them being very recommended for math, so it’d be worth checking on IMO.
Along with mentioned schools Harvey Mudd, Reed and UR, you may want look into the other colleges included in a Princeton Review sampling, “Great Schools for Mathematics Majors.”
Aiming high for the schools that offer a lot of financial aid to international students (Harvard, Princeton, MIT, etc.) may be the way to go if he has the stats.
I guess the obvious question is how strong in math? A Putnam winner will have no problem getting a PhD place whatever college they go to. Likewise, IMO qualifiers in high school should get admitted to top colleges. Has he done any competitions or research?
I would have recommended Utah as a go to safety school for math students, since their top math student has won a Churchill scholarship 3 consecutive years and gone on to tippy top PhD programs. Unfortunately I believe their merit aid is only for residents and citizens.
I’d like to have 3-5 universities with good honors colleges and big merit scholarships AND where the math depart is way stronger than you’d guess from the university’s general selectivity or ranking.
(the “meet need” colleges are a 3-5% chance for an international who needs a lot of financial aid, regardless of stats).
His school has little in terms of Math (compared to what you see on CC: no MVC, no Diff Eqs. Top Math students take the equivalent of Calculus BC, I think - I’m not exactly sure because he is also shy and hadn’t discussed his plans till this week.) He’s participated in a Math Research program where he and a friend were partnered with a university researcher. His math teacher says he’s never met a kid like this. His dad teaches middle school math and thus was a math major, he tries to help him get ahead with old college textbooks. He’s found MIT’s OCW Calc 1 class on his own and was thinking of doing the course for fun. Basically, he does math for fun and I need to find out if he does anything else.
^ for an international applicant who needs a full tuition scholarship, it is. Not nearly as hard as HarveyMudd but not a match. Still must be treated as a reach due to very low odds. hence the need for universities with merit and math.
What about Temple? UTK? UMN? Iowa?
IMO, highly selective private LACs and universities probably are the best places to look for a combination of top math programs and generous FA. For this situation and stated criteria, you may not find a true admission and financial safety (or even a very comfortable match.) Schools like Reed, St. O, Oberlin and Macalester may be the lowest-hanging fruit.
Some of the state flagships might be good alternatives for department quality and admissions, but they aren’t likely to offer good (if any) aid to international students. Alabama or Temple may be among the few exceptions. However, according to WebCaspar data, only 1 or 2 Temple alumni earned math/stat PhDs in each of the past several years (2014-17). For Alabama, the number has been 1-4. Compare that to 3-6 for St. O, 1-7 for Reed alumni, 4-21 for Princeton (which are smaller schools … esp. the LACs … if not smaller math programs.)
UMN does have some International scholarship but he would still have to pay a good amount each year.
I believe UMN is pretty strong. They definitely have one of the most quantitative econ programs. @tk21769 could look up the PhD data.
Like twoin18 , I would also like to know how strong this student is in math in terms of his abilities to go beyond the standard curriculum. Any evidence of advanced problem solving skills such being able to work out of the box problems like those on AMC10/12? Perfect Sat math , even sat math 2 scores are insufficient to judge true math ability that would possibly morph to a top tier PhD level admission down the road.
The private unis that are the best bets for a full or close to full ride would probably like to see such evidence.
He’s international - no AMC (is there a website with free problems?) He’s never taken the SAT. I doubt he’d get a perfect score because his school system doesn’t go for multiple choice tests and quick answers. He does proof based Calculus and participates in problem solving and math activities (including the partnership with researcher - represented his school forbthe national presentation).
His math teacher thinks he’s the best he’s seen or something like that.
He’s also very good overall - top 5 in the past 10 years overall.
I mentioned Math PHD not only for recommendations that lead to actual PHDs but to indicate his turn to mind, his way of thinking. I’m trying to get more info.
Is there any math department at a research university that offers merit for stats where there is a high intensity at the math undergraduate level?
Google “art of problem solving” website for free amc problems with solutions. They also have a free online problem database that students can work on, called Alcumus .It’s adaptive and churns out problems according to level of student mastery.
Looks like an uphill climb when there is no objective measure with which to get a sense of this students talent. Are there no local options for an undergrad degree? He may be more successful in looking for a grad program in the US later.
Thanks for all the ideas.
Don’t worry about evaluating him - I’ll do that.
I’m looking at the UK (despite the Brexit mess) and Canada.
But there’s something to say for American universities with great Math research and everything American campuses offer: a community of peers, honors college opportunities, etc.
Right now I’m just trying to get a sense of what universities have a good math program with intense undergraduates and automatic/competitive merit. (So that if need be I can tell him to focus on Canada, where he has a very high likelihood of admission based on his current resume as I know it or, if some US universities are possible, I can start working with him.)
I too have no idea whether he’s merely a great student or whether he has the potential to be an extraordinary one (ie., Math PHD material). I’m seeing him as a kid who’d thrive at UChicago but I don’t know if he can get into UChic.
Local options are a double edged sword: think kid from rural Ohio trying to get into Williams in the 1960s: unlikely because of double stigma of public school + rural, and if he makes it, overcoming the social stigma. If he does make it, it may be a good bet academically but I sort of worry for him because he’s not tough and the schools he’d go to are more or less insanein my view (some professors’ goal is to make the students crack or cry).
But I need help specifically sorting through all the merit options for their undergraduate math program intensity, preparation for PHD or just “math as an intellectual endeavor”. Or maybe USC Columbia or UTK or Iowa simply aren’t good enough for math and none of the merit options work. Or he’s not competitive.
I know his father has had him work on AoPS for years but I didn’t know they had AMC problems. I will send them, thanks.
Budget: likely to be low. 5 people 60K. Full tuition is a minimum.
Rice University. My niece went there undergrad and is now just finishing up her Phd. Excellent math there. Very good financial aid if you can get in the door.
UIUC has some merit, for OOS. Very high intensity math and physics.
U of Maryland offer some merit for OOS, also very high intensity math and physics.
Rutgers University NJ is a very top math program , probably has some merit
UT Austin??? Not sure about merit there.
I don’t know if OOS includes international students.
Boston University is pretty good in CS and math and offers international merit based awards.
Reed is very very good in math. Reed accepts way more students than Harvey Mudd College which is super competitive for boys and international students.
He will need to do Math REU’s every summer to get into MIT Math PhD. or equivalent.
MIT also accepts about half women in their PhD programs, so its extraordinarily hard to get into MIT for a PhD.
Look at ULCA, UIUC, and other large math departments for PHD program, not MIT.
hence the need for universities with merit and math.