<p>jessiehl -
If a parent can "afford" a certain level of tuition but isn't a millionaire, feels it isn't a good investment for a variety of reasons, and sets a reasonable limit on what he or she will spend -- is this controlling? Do you feel a parent owes any amount of money they can "afford" to send a child to any school they choose?</p>
<p>jessie, not all of us were quick to side with the mom holding the pursestrings.</p>
<p>OP, one thing I've learned on CC is that sometimes an out-of-state option, with merit aid, can be just as inexpensive as an in-state public U, so I didn't read into the first thread that money was necessarily the issue. What I read is that you don't want her far away and that she has secretly made sure that getting far away is an option.</p>
<p>To me, the issue is one of extremes, and it seems like there can be a happy medium somewhere. I'll go back to the college question: Why did she pick this un-named school?</p>
<p>Due to changes in the bankruptcy laws pushed through by the Bush administration, private loans for educational purposes cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. As soon as she turns 18, it she won't need a co-signer to get loans at some banks for educational purposes, if she is a US citizen. </p>
<p>And should she get into a good grad program in clinical psych--which is quite difficult--it's probable that she will will go for free. At least neither of the 2 young women I know currectly in such programs is paying anything. </p>
<p>Does the school in Texas give financial aid? If so, fill out the forms. If you really cannot afford it, she may get some aid which is NOT in the form of loans--maybe even grants, almost certainly work-study. It doesn't sound as if you've already seen the actual aid package. If not, why not at least wait to see what she is offered before you start pressuring her? When you have the actual numbers in hand, and if the TX school really will require $80,000 in debt, then the D may agree.</p>
<p>interesting title to this thread- the parents are also "stubborn" - maybe the D ONLY applied to two schools because she feels no matter what, it won't be her choice, so why bother....</p>
<p>Hmmm, some posters say that D's behavior could be interpreted as a sign of maturity, and some say it may be a sign of immaturity. Well there's a simple way to test that --- what would D do if she were simply GIVEN the $80,000 in cash and told to use it appropriately?</p>
<p>Thanks again for the replies. Funny how it seems like I'm manipulating my daughter by honestly trying to save her a lot of heartache down the road with the $$ situation.</p>
<p>The school is University of North Texas, so if you've heard of it, please let me know. It's a large school but the reason she thinks she wants to go there is a guy she met once and talks to online frequently, there is a slight romantic interest, which certainly puts another spin on it. However, if you ask her if that's why she's going, she will deny it. Before the Texas school really became a consideration, however, she said that he was nice and cute and they talked a lot. So, again I should have said that as well, but I am just really at my wits end about this whole thing to be honest :)</p>
<p>Tawnya</p>
<p>to the OP ... a few thoughts. It's tough trying to get a read on a situation over the interent but it sounds like there is a little bit of a indepedence/control thing going on with your daughter. To me the trick as a parent is to allow my kids as much choice as possible while maintaining control over things really NEED to be controlled. So there were a bunch of areas of conflict in your situation.</p>
<p>You'll pay for the in-state school ... this can come off as pushing your solution. Determining how much you can pay and discussing schools at the price level allows your daughter much more choice while respecting your financial constraint</p>
<p>Your daughter wanting $80k of loans ... while I typically back kids being able to make their own decisions I would not co-sign $80k loans for my kids school. Since almost all financial aid packages come with loan components I would think offering something like co-signing for $5k/yr would be quite reasonable.</p>
<p>Your wanting your daughter to go to school in-state ... if cost parameters have been met an "in-state" rule is not very logical (a school our of state may be closer) ... for that matter "miles from home" rule is not very logical to me either (some plane trips are quicker than car trips). To me the most logical rule would be time from home. In addition, to be honest, I believe in this case the onus is on you and your husband to sell why being X hours from home is a reasonable rule. You know your daughter and her maturity level but in the abstract I don't get the kids "should be close to home" argument when they want to wander as young adults. (Written as a person who had serious wanderlust a young adult and lived in 7 states from 18 to 25).</p>
<p>Your daughter only applied to two schools ... I agree this is not a great outcome ... I would suggest looking forward with your daughter and given financial and distance considerations determine if other schools fit your family's criteria.</p>
<p>It's a little late for applying for more schools next year but I believe there tons of schools still open to applications ... hopefully you and your daughter can figure out how to work together to develop options (you're OK with) from which she can pick.</p>
<p>OP, if your only concern is money, then why didn't you help her develop a list of schools that offer decent aid and met her out-of-state criteria? Instead, you insisted on her staying close to home. I think, perhaps, you aren't being honest with yourself.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If a parent can "afford" a certain level of tuition but isn't a millionaire, feels it isn't a good investment for a variety of reasons, and sets a reasonable limit on what he or she will spend -- is this controlling? Do you feel a parent owes any amount of money they can "afford" to send a child to any school they choose?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It is not controlling if the parents have: (1) been upfront since at least jr. high about the fact of a limit, (2) have stated the amount they will commit prior to the college application process beginning,(3) make the commitment without a parental veto of the student's choices of school to which to apply, (4) agree to fill out all financial aid paper work required and (5) been blunt and candid that the stated commitment is it, all, no "oops" or do-overs.</p>
<p>It is my view that they "owe" the student nothing, but acknowledge that many parents will be willing to commit some funds. </p>
<p>In a broader context, I believe that the parents owe it to themselves, and are giving their child a great gift, to never allow the parents to become financially dependent on their adult children. That means the parents shouldn't make any commitment that puts the parent in debt or denudes them of savings or jeopodizes their retirement plans.</p>
<p>Un. of North Texas is in Denton, Texas. It is North of Dallas. It has a renowned Jazz Band program. </p>
<p>The guy on the internet aspect makes me wonder if your D needs to talk to a professional (young adult psycologist) counselor about her decision making process at this point.</p>
<p>Yikes....Tawnya, your last post puts a whole different slant on things. Not a good reason to choose a college at all....</p>
<p>I would recommend that you make an appointment with a college counselor to sit down and discuss what she really wants to gain in college and find some good fits for her. Maybe she just needs some information and to feel like she has some choice in the matter. There are still many good schools available to her ( some take applications all the way into summer! ) so you should not give up yet. She may actually decide that she likes one of your state schools.
I can understand some of your frustration now. Good luck.</p>
<p>Oh, dear--she wants to take out $80,000 in loans so she can hang out with some guy she met on the internet?</p>
<p>well, that last post by the OP does....why wasn't that shared the first post? its not about just going out of state, and money, its about a guy....totally different kettle of fish</p>
<p>Reading through this thread, even before OP wrote in the last post that she thinks her daughter wants to go to the out of state school is because of a boy, I knew it had nothing to do with the school itself. There are hundreds of school with SAT requirements of 1000, so why this particular one? It had to be a boy/girl situation.</p>
<p>I would let her know, very calmly, that you didn't work hard all your life to raise her and save your hard earn money, so she could pursue her love interest. If she denies it. Then ask her to list top 10 reasons for wanting to go to that school. I am sure you could find 100 other schools (maybe even a few in state) that could fit those criterias. When you do, offer to pay for her to go one those schools and see what her response would be.</p>
<p>Your daughter does not sound like she is ready to go away to college. Going to college is a privilege, not a right. It is earned through both parents and student's hard work. For her to choose a college because of a teenage fling, it shows great immaturity. As a parent, it is your responsibility to help her see the importance of choosing the right college for the right reason. She shouldn't take the opportunity for granted.</p>
<p>Just another vote for checking out the financial aid at the Texas school and for doing what NSMom advised.</p>
<p>Hey, thanks so much, it's so neat that in a course of 2 hours I get such a varied amount of answers, which is why I love the internet! You are all amazing wealth of info, even the ones that question my motives and reasons :) Self-evaluation is just as important for the parents as it is for the college bound kids at this juncture isn't it?</p>
<p>
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Self-evaluation is just as important for the parents as it is for the college bound kids at this juncture isn't it?
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</p>
<p>AMEN. And, once they get into college, you get to do MORE of it. Why does my S or D do <em>_? Why didn't he or she do _</em>?</p>
<p>Oh, and my nephew from San Antonio is thinking about applying to North Texas. It is not an end of the world school. It has strong points, but "Internet Guy" should not be the only draw.</p>
<p>Heard of North Texas?!?! Why, I am a proud alum!!! No joke. But it was North Texas State Univ. when I went there. Go Mean Green. </p>
<p>Excellent jazz program. If she were interested in jazz, I'd see the allure. But go to school in Denton so she can hook up with a guy she met on the Internet!?! Uh, no, I wouldn't be funding that.</p>
<p>She wants to be treated as an adult although she doesn't appear to be acting like one. Is there a more neutral third party who can help? A guidance counselor at school? Did she take AP Psych in high school? What was her previously demonstrated interest in this major?</p>
<p>Yes, I've heard of the U of North Texas. It has one of the best schools of music in the US. Jazz is especially strong, but it's strong across the board. (I live in NYC. I'm not musical. I can name at most 10 schools of music and North Texas is on the list. ) </p>
<p>I did a quick google search. It looks as if it has an excellent psychology department. While the strength of graduate programs sometimes doesn't tranlate into strengths in undergraduate majors, it's certainly a plus. </p>
<p>See Ranking</a> of Clinical Psychology Doctoral Programs</p>
<p>Hey, if it's all about the boy, I wouldn't be enthused either. On the flip side, this doesn't look like a crazy choice for what she wants to do.</p>
<p>If she is in the top 10% of her class, she may be eligible for merit money:</p>
<p>UNT</a> Student Financial Aid and Scholarships :: Scholarships Overview</p>
<p>Deadline to apply is March 1. Again, if I were you, I'd fill out the forms and see how the $ works out. He may be history by the time she hears back and it won't be an issue at all.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Do you feel a parent owes any amount of money they can "afford" to send a child to any school they choose?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's the way I was brought up (where "afford" means actually be able to afford, without putting yourself in dire financial straits or compromising the needs of the rest of the family), so by instinct I would tend to lean toward "yes". However, I realize that this is not a majority view and have no right to insist that everyone take the same attitude as my parents.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If a parent can "afford" a certain level of tuition but isn't a millionaire, feels it isn't a good investment for a variety of reasons, and sets a reasonable limit on what he or she will spend -- is this controlling?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If the parent has explained to the student all along that they will only pay a certain amount of the student's college tuition, or none at all, that is fine. The people I know whose parents did that had been taking steps to prepare for paying their own way for years, since they knew that they would have to.</p>
<p>If the parent refuses to pay based on the student's choice of major, choice of college, choice of social group, sexual orientation, or something else where they are seeking to influence or punish the student's behavior through the giving or withholding of money, then yes, that is controlling. You can make the argument that it's justified, or better for the student, or being done out of love (and any or all of these may be true) but it is still controlling. I mean, that's the point of doing it, right? To exert control over the student's choices? It is the parent's money and the parent has a right to spend their money as they see fit. That does not mean I think the parent's choice was a good or appropriate one. I have seen some cases where I think the student would be completely justified in not speaking to the parent for years (and in some cases, that happened). But it is their money.</p>
<p>For a student whose parent is controlling them with money, or punishing them by withholding it, the only surefire way to escape this (and one that I have heard advocated by some posters, such as Opie), is for the student to pay their own way, however they can manage to do so.</p>
<p>Now, do I think that choosing a college because a romantic interest is attending, is a good idea? Absolutely not. But part of becoming an adult is making your own major life decisions. Plenty of older adults make very bad ones, and most of them don't ruin the makers, and the makers learn from them. In this case, the questionable decision is not irreversible - the daughter can transfer later if she realizes that she made a terrible mistake. EDIT: On the other hand, based on jonri's post, it may not actually be a bad choice, even if it is for a bad reason.</p>
<p>I am hearing a lot of concern in this thread that the daughter really doesn't understand about money and debt, which I think is very valid. A gap year in which the daughter was financially independent and living on her own, and/or research on the issue, might help her gain perspective on money, and make a more informed decision as to whether she is willing to take on that level of debt.</p>
<p>
[quote]
OP, if your only concern is money, then why didn't you help her develop a list of schools that offer decent aid and met her out-of-state criteria? Instead, you insisted on her staying close to home. I think, perhaps, you aren't being honest with yourself.
[/quote]
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<p>IAWTC</p>
<p>jessiehl</p>
<p>I think that it is the "owe" part where the differences of opinion come in. After HS "owing" can be a problem. </p>
<p>Do you (a college student) owe it to your parents to make certain grades set by them? To take only the courses they want you to? To adhere to your parents' wishes on issues of your sexuality?</p>
<p>I do not feel my S owes me the right to make these post-HS decisions for HIS life. Nor do I owe him a trip through college.</p>
<p>BUT, I want (seperate and apart from his wishes) my S to get a college education. So I make a financial commitment to that process to get what I want.</p>
<p>Its a win, win situation. I get what I want and he gets to go to a college without having to pay for all of it himself and gets to make his own personal decisions.</p>