<p>Watch the video. </p>
<p>Jeez....</p>
<p>wow! Based upon the video and the news report this morning on the "Today Show", that's not good... to day the least. </p>
<p>As a parent, its a bit disconcerting that the on campus police would behave in such a manner. There may be more to the story then the video, so let's see what the police say. For now, I think it looks really bad!</p>
<p>Has the university administration come out and said anything yet?</p>
<p>seiclan, was your d at the event?</p>
<p>I haven't spoken to her but I would highly doubt that my registered Republican daughter was there. :)</p>
<p>Here are some comments from someone that was there:
(Stephanie Sims-->former UF College Democrats President (and about as liberal as they come))</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you want to hear it from someone that was there:</p>
<p>The disturbance did not begin with Andrew asking the question. He caused quite a scene by bursting into the room in the middle of Q+A, rudely interrupting Kerry answering another question (what was supposed to be the last one), and demanding to be heard. The cops followed him in (I have the feeling he had been giving them a hard time outside as well)</p>
<p>John Kerry responded by asking him to calm down and wait his turn, that his question would be answered next.</p>
<p>As some of the videos show, his question was long and rambling without much focus, less of a question if you will than an outburst. John Kerry remained calm, tried to guide him to the direct question he would like answered, but Andrew continued. After Accent cut his mike off, the cops tried to guide him out and as you can all see the real event began.</p>
<p>I was sitting in the back row of the auditorium- less than 5 feet from where he was restrained and ended up being tasered. (you can see my green shirt next to my friend in the striped shirt on most of the videos) He WAS NOT handcuffed yet when they did it. He was still attempting to get up and resist the police officers and would not put his hands behind his back.</p>
<p>Within close range, I have to say that I didn't feel it was the safest situation. I did not feel like they had him under control at all- and was scared that if he did manage to get up- he would have started getting riled up again. I personally was in a location that if he had started flailing around again- I would have been at risk.</p>
<p>Now- my opinion- I think Andrew had intentions to be disruptive and was not going to leave peacefully. I am by no means a proponent of violence, but the way the UPD handled this situation was completely appropriate.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
With all due respect (again from someone that was there)</p>
<p>John Kerry did everything in his power to control the situation. He told the cops to stand back and allow Andrew to ask the question, he guided Andrew through the question, encouraged him to stay calm. When Andrew burst into the room, John Kerry said that he would answer the question and told the cops it was okay- to let him talk. He made it very clear that he was going to make time to address Andrew's question, and he did. In depth- even after Andrew felt the need to cause a disturbance.</p>
<p>After things picked up, John Kerry encouraged the audience to stay calm, and that he would move forward when appropriate.</p>
<p>He is not a law enforcement officer and could not have directly intervened. It is not his place to tell the police to taser or not to taser someone who is clearly out of line and causing a public disturbance. (Do you think he should have jumped from the stage and got in the middle of it? ;-)</p>
<p>I am not educated on UF's policy on tasers and I support an investigation, but I'm telling you the cops were not out of line.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Another comment...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Not sure how well this is going to copy over so here's the link in case the rest of my email looks screwed up.</p>
<p>Wow, he's getting charged with a 3rd degree felony. Max sentence of 5 years in prison.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>...and more</p>
<p>
[quote]
I also rathered enjoyed the MSNBC spot linked to through the
facebook group at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCBcOQkUNjI%5B/url%5D">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCBcOQkUNjI</a> .
Kerry's wishy washy reaction to the police dragging him away
against his own request to answer the kid's question is pretty
representative of how spineless democrats are in general. But I
digress.</p>
<p>Anyway, the only person who's managed to string together a
coherent argument (i.e. one which is not "man that douche got what
was coming i'm totally feelin the schadenfreude") against the
"police brutality" sentiment is Ira, so I'll address his points.</p>
<br>
<p>And yet, as someone pointed out, and which can clearly be seen from any of the several videos available, he was not tased until he was rolled over on his back, handcuffed, sat upon, and in a much calmer state than he was at any other point during the "arrest." Unless the cops were afraid that Andrew was going to reenact a certain scene from Matrix: Reloaded, exactly how dangerous was he at this point, and to whom? As you pointed out, there was only a "slight chance" of danger even during his active resistance. I've listened to the ~20 seconds leading up to the taze multiple times, and this is the conversation I hear, though I'm open to other interpretations:</p>
<p>Cop A: You will be tazed (if you do not comply). Female cop: Do it now! (I don't mean to imply she was telling them to tazer him, I assume she was reiterating some other command to submit) Andrew: What year are we in?! Can I just go? (unclear) Cop B: You don't have an option! Andrew: Lemme just stand up. Cop B: Roll on your stomach!</p>
<p>At this point, Andrew rolls over and appears to submit. After about 6 seconds:</p>
<p>Andrew: Why are they arresting me? Did somebody do something here? I'm being arrested! <em>pause</em> What did I do? Get off me! Cop A: Gimme your other hand! Andrew: Get the **** off me man, I didn't do anything! Cop A: Taze him. Andrew: Don't taze me, bro! Don't taze me! (quote of the day btw) Cop C: Let's go.</p>
<p>At this point, they taze him. Granted, he was starting to get excited again, but I'd still be very curious to know what kind of danger a fully handcuffed, 150 lb bag of bones laying down on his stomach poses to absolutely anyone. I regularly see far larger people get physically thrown out of clubs onto University Avenue by as few as one or two people, I completely fail to understand how six police officers could not have simply carried him out once he was in handcuffs. I agree that if he had been dragged out, this wouldn't have gotten more than a short column in the Alligator, except maybe few people down at the Civic Media Center shaking their fists at The Man.</p>
<br> [QUOTE=""]
<p>For the person that said the taser was a form of punishment, you couldn't be any more incorrect. A taser is on the use of force line. It's right there after a gun. Would you consider a cop shooting someone when justified to be a form of punishment? In any case, the taser is a "less lethal" option that the officer chooses instead of a handgun.</p>
<br>
<p>These lines really left me scratching my head. If a taser is
nothing but a "less lethal" option than a handgun, does this imply
that the use of a handgun was actually justified here, and we
should be thanking our lucky stars that Andrew got shocked instead
of shot? I sure hope not. But to answer your question, yes, if a
cop shot someone in the back when they were rolled over on the
ground in handcuffs, I'd have an extremely hard time coming up
with any motive other than punishment or something even less
civilized.</p>
<br>
<p>Yes, the tasers have killed people before, but you actually need to read the cases. In many cases, the individuals were already on drugs that would likely have resulted in the cop shooting the person instead of tasing them.</p>
<br>
<p>Amnesty International reported that over 60 people died in 2005 at
the hands of police officers with tasers. Not all of them, not
even a majority involved suspects who were on drugs. And as for
the ones that were on drugs, most were on ecstasy or meth. Pretty
much anyone with any medical background or the ability to examine
summaries of coroners' reports can tell you that mixing
amphetamines and high voltage electric shocks is a chef's special
combo for cardiac arrest. The likelihood of having to subdue
someone under the influence of amphetamines is a reason <em>not</em> to
use tasers, not a reason <em>to</em> use tasers. I worry that everyone
else's compliance with incidents like this will just reinforce the
use of tasers as some sort of "instant compliance" button, cutting
through the red tape of actually having to work like a police
officer does from time to time.</p>
<br>
<p>Police officers aren't there to punish people, they are there to enforce the laws using minimal levels of force (ranging from physical fights, pepper spray, batons, tasers, and at the end a handgun).</p>
<br>
<p>Why did they ever stop using physical force? The officer
basically threw him over his shoulder and carried him to the back
of the auditorium without a hitch. And that was before he was
handcuffed. If six police officers can't get a handcuffed 140lb
bag of bones through two sets of double doors, we need some new
ones anyway.</p>
<p>To answer Tom's question, he sure looks like he's at least
smiling.
<a href="http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8707/laughingcopcm8.jpg%5B/url%5D">http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8707/laughingcopcm8.jpg</a></p>
<p>My question is what's the deal with all the Xanadu videos in the
"related" column?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>From reading comments from people that were actually there, they mostly supported police actions. Comments from people who only watched the video were against the cops actions. I think there was probably more to this, but the video makes it seem like they attacked him for asking a question.</p>
<p>Pro cops. (10 char)</p>
<p>
[quote]
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE%5B/url%5D">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE</a></p>
<p>Another angle of the incident.</p>
<p>From what I understand of the articles and videos I personally see no
issue with what happened. Mr. Meyer was asked multiple times to finish
asking his question. ACCENT decided to cut his mic and the cops were
going to escort him away from the podium and possibly out of the venue.
He was not be arrested at this time. Shortly after being physically
removed he fought back and even broke away from the cops and that is
where Mr. Meyer made a mistake. Even after more cops were trying to
remove him from the venue (the big black cop that ultimately tasered
him) he kept fighting back and was being disruptive. At that point of
time the cops had to use force and got him on the ground even then you
can see he is moving around a significant amount and not willing to put
his hands behind his back to allow for the handcuffs to be put on him.
Even all the way up to the point in which he was tasered he was still
fighting, watch the videos a few times you will see it. Despite his
pleas of saying I will leave and walk out his actions were showing he
was not willing to cooperate. Was the tasering over the top?
Possibly. Was it excessive? I think not. Now again this is just my
initial opinion form what I have read and the two videos I have seen.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
I really Haven't wanted to get into the middle of this, but I just wanted to put a small thought into your minds while you're debating this. Put yourself in the shoes of everyone else there. Personally, If I were Andrew, I would have handled the situation differently. If I were the police officers, I think I would have handled it the same way. As a police officer, its your duty to keep order and protect the general public. Andrew was clearly causing a disturbance when ACCENT (not the police) decided that his "Question" was no longer worthy of being heard. It was a police duty to keep order when he got out of line, which called for removing him from the venue.</p>
<p>Throughout the ordeal, Andrew is consistently saying one thing and doing another. This has fueled debate here as people continuously say he was going to leave and was complying. He may have said it, but his actions spoke much louder as he fought police officers, and charged back towards senator Kerry before being tackled by officers.</p>
<p>At this point, he was told NUMEROUS times that if he did not comply he would be tasered. For those of you don't believe Stephanie Sims (Great post btw), this video ( <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1606277730046267759%5B/url%5D">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1606277730046267759</a> ) shows clearly that officers attempt to handcuff him to take control of the situation, and he does nothing but continue to flail and push officers away from him. He is NOT handcuffed when tasered and officers are NOT in control of him.</p>
<p>Decisions a police officer makes must be made in the heat of the moment, with split second decision making. Many people on here criticize their actions without ever thinking of what they would do in that situation. The officers did not have time to find out background about him, ask people what kind of person he was, analyze every YouTube video posted on the internet, and consult a supervisor / policy book before the decision to use force was made. Take away all those resources you as critics of their actions have had, reduce your time to make a decision to the time they had, and then go find someone to beat the crap out of you while you make that decision, and see what conclusion you'll come to.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Anti cops (10 char)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Resisting arrest without a weapon and without aggression (clearly
there was not aggression, just resistance) should never end in
someone being tased. The officers (4-6 of them?) were on top of
him, he was unable to do anything but squirm, and all he was doing
was yelling. (There are at least two different videos
availablefrom two different angles.)</p>
<p>Yelling at someone to comply is completely ineffectual, which was
pretty obvious from the start with this guy. I think it's rather
ignorant to think someone who is essentially being tackled without
justified causation (at least in his perception) and who is
already rather fired up is going to just sit there and take it.
Someone <em>not complying</em> shouldn't end in violence unless that
noncompliance turns into actual aggression, and even then, they
probably easily could have put him in a hold where he wasn't able
to do anything (and yes, it's pretty easy... everyone at my job is
trained to do so with people who are bigger than that guy).</p>
<p>It scares me that some people are so okay with such heavy-handed
uses of inducing "order" and "security." Using violence to quell
something that is completely nonviolent is a disgusting act.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
At best, this is just about the most miserable handling of a
hyperactive person by the law enforcement I think I've ever seen.
He had not one, not two, but three officers screaming commands,
sometimes conflicting, at him at the same time, and on top of that
about three more grabbing and holding on to random parts of his
body. Can you even imagine a worse way to try to get someone to
calm down? The thing I'm questioning the most and which I'm sure
(I hope) will be the focus of whatever investigation occurs is
whether the officers are at all competent. Like I said before,
two bouncers manage to get misbehaving people out of buildings all
the time in a far more hectic environment than a Q&A session, and
they manage to do it without tasing people and in all of about 10
seconds. Why should we be satisfied with this level of
incompetence from UPD? Again, if they can't handle a scrawny kid
(who apparently lost 10 pounds over the course of my original
message) who's been reading too many internet conspiracy theories
late at night, why are they in this job?</p>
<p>Make no mistake, I think this kid was really just being a noisy
obnoxious fool, but if this is UPD's protocol for handling noisy
obnoxious fools then something is seriously wrong. Kerry was
doing a perfectly good job with the situation until the two cops
grabbed him. You can almost see "9/11 never forget, let's roll"
flash across their eyes right before they go after him in the
video posted by GainesvilleSun.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sorry for all the post. I just wanted you to see opinions from both sides of the story. I tend to believe the views of Stephanie from above. She was actually there and saw all the antics Mr. Meyers put on before the video start rolling.</p>
<p>A picture is worth a thousand words.
In the Google video you can clearly see that his left hand is on the backrest of the seat. Clearly NOT handcuffed. He clearly put the UP in a no win situation. If he had pulled out a weapon and started hurting people all you would be reading about is how incompetent the UP was.</p>
<p>I'm currently in Library West and as I was walking here there was a huge protest marching down Newell that accumulated at the Plaza of the Americas. I thought it was pretty ironic that the police escorted them even though they had signs like "Tase the Pigs!". Hahaha. Definitely pretty crazy. I think students just want something to protest about, because a lot of people I have talked to said the guy had it coming.</p>
<p>and join the speech and debate team. I've completed my rigorous coursework and am a member of our debate club... but after this incidence I will apply elsewhere.. tasering of a student??? no way...</p>
<p>
[quote]
and join the speech and debate team. I've completed my rigorous coursework and am a member of our debate club... but after this incidence I will apply elsewhere.. tasering of a student??? no way...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Why? You act like this happens everyday at UF. Its your decision, but an unwise one to me.</p>
<p>E-Mail from Student Government:</p>
<p>As you are by now aware, yesterday afternoon, as a town hall forum with
Senator John Kerry was ending, there was an incident in which a student
was tasered. Many of you, and many of your parents, have expressed your
concerns regarding this incident to me and my staff. I would like to
assure you that the University is interested in learning what happened and
in ensuring that we utilize best practice protocols in maintaining a safe
campus environment while protecting the freedom to speak.</p>
<p>I would like to reiterate the immediate steps, laid out by President
Machen in his letter to the university community, which are being taken in
response to the incident.</p>
<p>University of Florida Police Chief Linda Stump has requested the Florida
Department of Law Enforcement conduct a formal investigation into the
arrest of UF student Andrew Meyer. An independent review such as this will
make sure the results are objective and impartial. Chief Stump's priority
is to ensure that the public remains confident in the department's ability
to keep the campus safe.</p>
<p>Two officers involved in the incident have been placed on paid
administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.</p>
<p>The institution plans to assemble a panel of faculty and students to
review our police protocols, our management practices and the FDLE report
to come up with a series of recommendations for the university.</p>
<p>Administrators and police officials plan to analyze the incident and
conduct an internal review and will consider changing protocols in
response to this incident, if necessary.</p>
<p>Finally, as is standard procedure, the State Attorney's Office will review
the charges brought against Mr. Meyer. We have communicated with the State
Attorney and understand that a review of the case will be expedited.</p>
<p>We plan to keep students updated on any progress through our website,
<a href="http://www.vpsa.ufl.edu%5B/url%5D">www.vpsa.ufl.edu</a>.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Patricia Telles-Irvin
Vice President for Student Affairs</p>
<ol>
<li> They allowed him to speak. 2. They didn't perceive him as a threat to begin with. 3. I believe he had time left and they just didn't like his questioning. Even if he didn't have time left nobody asked him to leave.. What is going to happen to me? I get tasered if i go over the alloted time? Senator Kerry stated that he would answer his questions..</li>
</ol>
<p>From talking to my friends that went, he loudly disrupted room when he enter towards the end of Kerry's time there and demanded that his question be answered even though the previous person was suppose to be the last person. So at the beginning they did perceive him as a threat when he first enter b/c of the behavior he exhibited previously. As for the question, he didnt have a question. He spent most of his time lecturing Kerry and not asking a specific question. To me, he was only going to be escorted out at the beginning but when he starts pulling away (aggressively) from the police and later resisting arrest...they took further actions. I probably wont not have tased him but its one of the techniques the police use to subdue someone.</p>
<p>I read in the news that the student had a history of doing comedy skits on his web site so perhaps one of his "jackass" type skits backfired on him. If this is true, he will probably get 15 minutes of fame and do the talk show circuit to get the attention he supposedly desires.</p>
<p>there were at least 6 officers there...they all should have carried him out after they got him on the ground...no need for the taser</p>
<p>FYI</p>
<p>Here's the taser policy at UTexas UPD (I guess its similar/same here). </p>
<p>K. M-26 Advanced TASER (a.k.a. Air Taser, TASER, M-26):
1. The TASER is deployed as an additional police tool and is not intended to replace firearms or self-defense techniques. The TASER may be used to control a dangerous or violent subject when deadly force does not appear to be justified and/or necessary; or attempts to subdue the subject by other conventional tactics have been, or will likely be, ineffective in the situation at hand; or there is reasonable expectation that it will be unsafe for officers to approach within contact range of the subject.</p>
<ol>
<li>Duties After Deployment of TASER.
a. TASER probes that penetrate the skin should be removed by medical personnel.
b. Photographs will be taken of probe impact sites and any other related injuries and placed into evidence.
c. Probes, which have penetrated the skin, should be treated as biohazards. Probes should be carefully placed, sharp tip first, back into the expended cartridge bores and secured with tape.</li>
</ol>