<p>I agree that the issue isn’t the same with rowers and swimmers, the article was specific to football and basketball.</p>
<p>We know why the schools do it, we may not like it but it’s about money. To use Nick Saban and Alabama as an example (Disneydad mentioned him in a post above), the University of Alabama leadership pays him $7 million annually. In return, he generates $80 million in football revenue (don’t know what overall fundraising he’s responsible for). That revenue funds many of the other sports at Alabama, allows the University to use funds that might otherwise go to athletics to fund their very generous academic scholarship programs. That generous scholarship program has significantly raised the profile of the University - top students from across the country are attending Alabama because of the increased exposure and academic scholarships. Look to our board for evidence of that.</p>
<p>From The University’s perspective, they may take some kids that wouldn’t otherwise be admitted and give them a chance to get a degree. But their return on investment is significant.</p>
<p>And it’s not just Alabama, I believe it applies to all the large schools on the list. Even if they don’t generate the same revenue, they get increased alumni support and more out of state students applying (higher tuition).</p>
<p>IMO, the school presidents don’t want to give this up - easy money (especially when ESPN keeps signing huge television contracts with them).</p>
<p>jreeder, do you think this is fair to the recruited students? Not sure about the various academic fraud cases (and not implying that all schools do it), but do you think big-time recruited football and basketball players have a fair chance of learning something in college besides their sport?</p>
<p>It seems like a pretty cynical decision on the part of college presidents to go for this money and put the recruited students into a very exploitative situation.</p>
<p>‘academically strong’ athletes with a 3.0 GPA and a 900 CR+M SAT and a 12 ACT? Can’t figure out for the life of me how 900 and 12 is academically strong (but I think I’m about to email the coach to find out). D is projecting (from PSAT and PLAN) in the 1200 range for SAT CR+M and 21 - 25 ACT comp. So ***<<<</p>
<p>This can’t be a Div-1 or Div-2 school because those require higher ACT/SAT scores. For Div -2, the ACT must add to 61 (so can’t have a 15, 16, 16 and 13 to make a 15 ACT average, but could have 15, 15, 15 and 16 for a 15 ACT average but 61 total points).</p>
<p>What I learned, and I’m not sure I understand it all yet, is that if the athlete gets merit money but does not meet one of three tests (GPA, class rank, scores), the NCAA considers that to be athletic money and it goes against the total the sport is allowed. My daughter met the test, so she is allowed merit and athletic aid, but not need based aid (that’s the part I don’t really understand). The only merit aid she’s allowed is something that would be available to any other student with her statistics.</p>
<p>I’m okay with the big revenue schools bringing in students who aren’t academic superstars. They do have to meet a minimum to get in with scores, and there is at least the structure to get an education. Will some of them never pass a course? Yes, but there have been kids flunking out of college for many years without the help of CBS and ABC contracts for football. NCAA requires study tables, number of credits, GPA, but it can’t fix or regulate everything.</p>
<p>But maybe the team is more representative of the state or area population that the school is supposed to be serving. Many big flagship southern universities are 80% white, while I don’t believe the states’ populations are still 80% white.</p>
<p>oldmom,
I have mixed feelings. On one hand, if you’re not the best student but good enough to play basketball or football, maybe it’s a chance to improve your life. Maybe you can beat the odds…</p>
<p>On the other hand, if you’re at a competitive school and you are at the NCAA minimum, you are fighting uphill academically, you have 20 (I think it’s 20) hours of practice a week, team travel, and you probably have a big social adjustment. The odds aren’t good.</p>
<p>I say form a minor league, like baseball does.</p>
<p>The other thing that bothers me about the practice of recruiting basketball and football players to big-time school teams is that they often don’t have educated parents who can help them sift through offers and pick a school that will have a better chance of educating them. I think that those who say that the students (and their parents) made their bed and sleep in it are being awfully cynical about 17-year-olds without college-educated parents to help them think it through.</p>
<p>This is an NAIA school which does have minimum eligibility requirements so still valid for this discussion. Low yes but higher than a 12 ACT (or at least it should be).</p>
<p>oldmom, agree totally. I’m all over it but know a few student athletes who did not graduate and that is basically sad. It is like a job (like jreeder said, like 20 hours a week). I’m hoping she pulls it out enough to get merit aid at a D3 school and can just play because it’s fun. I don’t even want her to walk on anywhere and don’t get me wrong, not D1 material by a long shot but just don’t know if we want to even accept athletic money (since if you do, the sport is now a job?)</p>
<p>Yes, the sport is a job, but in our case a job my daughter loves and it pays a lot more than wiping tables in the dining hall. If my daughter decides she doesn’t want to play anymore, she’ll need to get a job to make up the difference in aid the sport provides.</p>
<p>My other daughter is not an athlete, but she has to make the same decision with the academic award from her department. If she accepts it, she must attend meetings, put in hours in the department, take the courses the department advisor requires, do the grunt work. I told her that if the amount isn’t enough, she’d be better off getting a regular student job and keeping her freedom to choose her courses and hours of participation. The advisor told me “if she takes the money, we own her.” He was nice about it, but honest.</p>
<p>At a Div 3 school, the student athlete can walk away at any time without change to aid since it is all merit or need based.</p>
<p>Moving this topic of broad gen interest among many adults to a special little board topic area is insulting. I’s a topic of huge national interest. Not just among athletes.</p>
<p>^the topic began here! And in typical internet fashion drifts around the central theme. Our community of interested participants enjoys our special little board. Most of us, I would venture to guess, bring a different perspective to the college/college selection process.</p>
<p>My D is going to a D1 school. It is not a powerhouse in football or basketball, but it does have both programs. What D’s coach (soon to be college coach) told me on the OV was that everyone for all sports has to be able to get into the school on their own merit. Football is allowed 6 slots who do not meet standards and Men’s basketball is allowed 3 slots. Every other sport/athlete goes through a pre-read status to guarantee that they can get in on their own merit before any offers are made.</p>
<p>Like others have said, they do have to meet the minimum standards provided by NCAA Eligibility Center. They will probably have mandatory study hall hours (D will have 8 hrs mandatory her Freshman year). Maybe they can turn things around. Now if they can’t read, not sure that the support at this level will even make a difference.</p>
<p>I know it just gets to people that a university would admit someone who isn’t qualified, but we seem to want to vent that on the athletes versus all of the other special admits that a school makes on a yearly basis. As a former D1 athlete and two-term University trustee, admissions decisions in terms of standards are made all the time on a per individual basis.</p>
<p>Student/athlete seem to bare the majority of this because they are in the spot light, the do so much and serve as the face of the university, but their counterparts that marginal student, that legacy admit, or special military/government or foreign national admit that fails seem to just disappear, whereas an athlete is a public failure. The schools list in the study are large publics which serve a broader demographic versus that of a private that can do most anything they please. But, they also make compromises(quietly) versus those that a big state school makes—</p>
<p>Zebradome was right-My D’s coach is on the same page with his foreign imports, olympians and national champions, some of which got into school on merits others who can barely understand English??(TOEFL- are special admits) and they don’t get headlines or news coverage.</p>
<p>Schoolhouse, I get your point, but surely many academically unqualified student athletes are much more vulnerable to exploitation than kids with other hooks.</p>
<p>Unfortunately this issue is unique to our society. Our society craves athletics and rewards it at just about any cost. The NCAA is part of the problem, and certainly will not be part of the solution unless forced to by our society or our government. There is way too much money at stake for the NCAA to finally get a conscience.</p>
<p>These Admission issues and classroom requirements are left up to administrators who’s job is make money off of the athlete. It is foolish to think they are going to change just for the sake of change. State budgets are thin, and the economy has a been a yo-yo for the last 30 years. College Presidents have latched onto Athletics and Research to bring in money & prestige to their Universities. In many cases the college football or basket ball coach makes more money and is better known that the College President. There is a whole lot of reform that would need to happen to set this right. It is going to take a lot of time and a lot of outrage by the people paying the bills (you and me). JMO.</p>
<p>^ I agree with you, Fenway. I just don’t know that there is the will to do anything about it. When we’re all watching bowl games on New Year’s Day, or March Madness - how many people really care that some of the athletes out there representing their colleges are barely literate? The ones that should be outraged are the graduates of those schools. They should be outraged that their school has implemented an entirely different set of standards, classes and assistance, unavailable to the average student, that will allow a guy that reads at the 3rd grade level to obtain the same diploma. But instead of outrage, it’s a point of pride among many alums.</p>