Student dies from Bacterial Meningitis

<p>To the best of my knowledge, there is no meningitis vaccine called "mentra" though perhaps some subcontractor uses that name? There are several meningitis vaccines in current use; I suspect you may be referring to Menactra:</p>

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Meningococcal polysaccharide vaccine (MPSV4 or Menomune?) has been approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and available since 1981. Meningococcal conjugate vaccine (MCV4 or MenactraT) was licensed in 2005. Both vaccines can prevent 4 types of meningococcal disease, including 2 of the 3 types most common in the U.S. (serogroup C, Y, and W-135) and a type that causes epidemics in Africa (serogroup A).

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<p>meningitis is a nasty deadly disease. And the biggist problem with mennigococemia is that by the time you go for tx it's often too late. The headache and temp startfirst. Then you get a rash and real sick. By then the nasty bacteria have released their toxins which is what kills you. By then the antibiotics don't do too much. And if you do survive you may still be missing fingers ,hands or feet from the disease. I still remember a poor teenager who came to the Er while I was doing my residency. He had a headache and temp. When we undressed him he had the rash of bacterial meningitis. We gave him big doses of ab right ther in the ER and sent him to the ICU. He was dead by evening. Like I said it is a nasty disease. The shot gives some protection which is better then nothing. And no I'm not an employee of a drug co or a big fan of them either. But this shot is important. and the shot is menactra I'm a poor typist.</p>

<p>mochasmom, nobody contests the fact that meningococcal meningitis is a nasty, deadly disease that is difficult to diagnose and that can kill rapidly. I am sorry for your patient who died. You must have felt helpless and horrified, and that has colored your response here. Nevertheless, it is anecdotal. We do not know whether vaccine would have protected this teenager. We do not know how he contracted the disease and whether his early symptoms were ignored until too late. Education and vigilance are needed, and still some children will die. Meningitis strikes somewhere in the range of 1 to 3 people in 100,000, depending on age, geography, and lifestyle. Our best protection -- and I say this again at risk of boring everyone -- is eating well, getting enough sleep and exercise, avoiding smoking and excess alcohol, not sharing glasses/utensils, and not sharing saliva with people you don't know.</p>

<p>The "shot" gives some protection (against all but the B serogroup), and I have no quarrel with anyone who voluntarily elects to take the Menactra vaccine, or with the parent of a minor who, after due consideration, chooses to order this vaccine for their child. My quarrel, you see, is with the unquestioning acceptance of this or any other medical treatment without first being informed about its effectiveness and possible side effects. Posters on this thread have thrown out terms such as "little doubt" about Menactra's safety and efficacy. My point is simply that where there is "little doubt," there is an apparent lack of independent assessment of the risks and benefits.</p>

<p>Vaccines are not innocuous. For better or worse, they interfere powerfully with our biology. The human immune systems are little understood. Drug companies prey on our ignorance. So let's try to pay more attention.</p>

<p>ek - there is no vaccination against malaria. You can take pills (there are a number of pills to choose from, your doctor should know which are best for you and your family based on your health considerations, financial ability, and whatever drug resistance may exist where you are going). The pills, in my case, were ineffective (as was the nasty DEET, the mosquito net, the white clothing...) stupid mosquitoes! You are much less likely to catch malaria in Equador than in sub-Saharan Africa, and if you do catch it, it will likely be a much less harmful strain. Don't worry!</p>

<p>There is a very effective yellow fever vaccine which is good for ten years. It ought to be taken at least ten days before entrance into a region with yellow fever. </p>

<p>Two separate illnesses. :)</p>

<p>celloguy-</p>

<p>No offense taken. I love that people have different takes on controversial issues. But yes, I've done my homework.</p>

<p>I was only commenting on the meningococcal vaccine for young adults, not the Hib or pneumococcal. My impression was that this thread was discussing that vaccine in particular.</p>

<p>I've cultured meningococcus from CSF of college kids with meningitis. Also, know of lab professionals who have died working with it. It's a rare disease but that doesn't matter if your loved one is devasted by it. I am pleased our son chose to get vaccinated for that specific threat. Don't think he should line up to receive every imaginable vaccine produced.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/VIS/vis-mening.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/VIS/vis-mening.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://0-www.cdc.gov.mill1.sjlibrary.org/MMWR/PDF/rr/rr5407.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://0-www.cdc.gov.mill1.sjlibrary.org/MMWR/PDF/rr/rr5407.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/gbsfactsheet.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/gbsfactsheet.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccineInfo/vaccine_detail.cfv?id=15%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccineInfo/vaccine_detail.cfv?id=15&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I just did check the recommended things for Ecuador & it looks like for the Galapagos and Quito- things are fairly disease free :)
Which is helpful since D- freaks out over too many tests and medicines-</p>

<p>What I worry about the most Re vaccines recommended for college kids- is that they will lose their common sense and think that because they are vaccinated, they still don't have to be careful- contamination wise
Lots of nasty junk, much more common than bacterial meningitis.</p>

<p>Celloguy- a PARENT wanted his son to have the vaccine and knew which button he needed to push when son kept saying he'd do it but never got around to it. All parents figure out how dire the consequences need to be to get compliance with issues they deem important (the son was most likely nagged enough times without any action so the father came up with something to make him realize the vaccine really needed to get done); the speaker used this as an example of how college kids don't get around to simple tasks...And yes, it is simple to get this done on that campus.</p>

<p>Physicians do NOT recommend vaccines to make money. We get just as upset at the cost of medical care as everyone else- physicians and hospitals are squeezed by the government but nobody regulates the pricing of drugs and other medical goods charged by companies. In fact, some physicians can lose money on some things they need to do for patients, such as vaccines when the drug company increases their price but the insurance companies don't increase their reimbursement. </p>

<p>Every drug and treatment has a risk, you can find an anecdote to support any position. Despite what some malpractice lawyers might want you to believe, there are no guarantees, even with the best case probabilities. With the meningococcal vaccine I look at the low but scary possible outcome of getting the infection versus the probability of complications from it. I don't worry about college kids losing common sense- if they have any to begin with- since once they've had the vaccine they probably forget all about it and wouldn't change their lifestyles at all based on a vaccine. Those with good habits won't think about being protected and the others' habits won't get worse. I do not look at this disease as being avoidable by good habits, such as with the cervical cancer vaccine now available for a hefty price.</p>

<p>well, wis, let's just agree to disagree, shall we? Three of my kids are 18+ and I'd think it unseemly to threaten or badger them into complying with my ideas on private health concerns. They're adults. Perhaps I'm unusually fortunate that they're all mature, sensible, healthy people.</p>

<p>To clarify, though, I didn't suggest that individual physicians recommend vaccines to make money (what a foolish notion) -- I responded instead to posters quoting the CDC, the ACIP (Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices) and the ACHA (American College Health Association), all of whom are funded, directly or indirectly, by pharmaceutical companies. The ACIP researchers are employed by or have vested interest in the vaccine industry, and while this sort of conflict of interest is not tolerated in most organizations, here it is -- by special congressional waiver. Now, there are good reasons for this -- we'd be hard pressed to find knowledgeable vaccine researchers without such ties. At the same time, we as consumers should be demanding checks and balances, not accepting CDC recommendations as the only true gospel. It takes a brave physician indeed to question the CDC recommendations and to attempt to educate patients with full disclosure. I know only a very few.</p>

<p>Here's our family's experience: both of our young teenagers were required to get the Menactra vaccine last year for summer boarding experiences. We were happy to comply, as there had been a few scary outbreaks of bacterial meningitis among high school sports teams here in Connecticut. Both kids have a long history of side effects from vaccinations, high fever etc. Neither one of them had any reaction to Menactra- not even a sore arm. I think it was worth it for the peace of mind that it gave us.</p>

<p>Celloguy- Someone else mentioned that about money, I believe. You're lucky if your children reached full adult maturity by the magic age of 18. Being an adult technically does not mean having all the skills to manage as well as when a person is older (I think there's even recent brain research showing minds are still going through physical changes into one's twenties). The new college freshman usually hasn't reached their full decision making ability, hence all the parent college orientation sessions and anecdotes such as this.</p>

<p>Checks and balances are achieved by requiring physician's orders and prescriptions for treatments, tests and medications et al. Unfortunately many patients now see/read ads for drugs and pressure their doctor for them. The system isn't perfect since humans are not. If you prefer to do all the research yourself to make an informed decision, do so. You can be your own accountant, architect, lawyer, teacher, financial planner etc. but while we all do some of these roles to some extent, I would much rather rely on the advice of the professionals who have studied about their area of expertise a lot more than I have for matters with potentially devastating consequences. The physician in practice cannot have time to know everything about any area of medicine, the field constantly changes and one must rely on experts. Medical training is as much learning how to learn and evaluate information as it is in learning facts since the facts change. The CDC is a, or the, leading resource regarding infections. The brave physician going against the expert's advice better have good information to back his decision if something goes wrong or a lawyer will nail him in court. Yes, fear of malpractice suits in our litiginous society influences all physicians' decisions.</p>

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Medical training is as much learning how to learn and evaluate information as it is in learning facts since the facts change

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<p>I completely agree. I'd go further and say that ALL education is as much learning how to learn and evaluate information as it is in learning facts. And of course you're right that 18 is just an arbitrary age of legal majority -- no guarantee that all 18-year-olds display excellent judgment. I grew up in a culture where people were expected to act like responsible adults by the time they graduated high school, or preferably before. When I first moved to the U.S. and discovered college "kids" acting like spoiled toddlers, I was chagrinned. I really do believe, though, that people rise to the level of expectation, so expecting intelligent judgment from teens pays off. Or maybe I've just been lucky.</p>

<p>You were lucky. I have decided my son's true major is "AMP", short for "Absent-minded Professor", a friend with an equally gifted daughter says that's right for her child also. No matter how mature, the practical things in life don't always make it on a college student's priority/to do list. Therefore parents still do some parenting after the child leaves the nest, hopefully this need decreases as the years go by. Although, many mothers/wives might say they acquire a wife instead (I know this sounds sexist, hey, a lot of us women would like a wife to handle the practical details, too).</p>

<p>As the time approaches for students to send in their health forms etc., I just wanted to poll parents to see how many are/are not having their kids do the Meningitis vaccine. And also if you are getting Menactra or Menomune.</p>

<p>By the way, if you are getting it, better call your doctor sooner rather than later, as there is a run on these things in the summer.</p>

<p>haven't gotten her any updates on any vaccines- but you should * see* the forms I have to fill out for her to take scuba lessons!</p>

<p>( as she has asthma and is on a few meds- there is a lot to fill out)
but good reminder choco</p>

<p>Both my kids were younger when they received their first meningococcal vaccine, which I believe was the old MPSV4 vaccine, and have since received the newer version. I think the older one only provided short term protection. But it is worrisome, even with the new one, they are not protected from all strains of meningitis. </p>

<p>My d took herself to the clinic last week complaining of a horrible headache and chest congestion. She actually called me to find out my year of birth for the insurance form and she sounded horrible and upset. Later she told me that she was rushed in to an examination room where she had a doc, an RN and two med school interns examining her. They were very worried about the headache and the possibility of meningitis. </p>

<p>(She was fine...OOS reaction to the unusual NC pollen.....sigh. I was so alarmed.)</p>

<p>Good for them Idmom, they should be concerned.</p>

<p>Please, please have your children vaccinated. Getting them vaccinated is more important than the particular vaccine, especially at age 17-18. Also educate them about the dangers of fever and headache, fever and rash, new onset headache in persons not prone to headache or severe headache. The vaccine doesn't cover everything, and there are other problems, like aneurysms, that have a peak in early adulthood.</p>

<p>Got interrupted, the combos of symptoms I listed are some red flags of serious conditions, these are things that should get you down to Student Health.</p>

<p>Idmom- </p>

<p>S is in NC, has allergies and asthma, says the sidewalks are yellow with pollen!</p>

<p>I reminded him of some of the self-care strategies, and as I was reminding him about showering before going to bed, I realized that he's been to bed for the first time at 3:30 a.m. lately, then again mid morning, then probably again later in the day. Things aren't always quite so neat and tidy at college!</p>

<p>I'm glad your daughter had the sense to get help, that she encountered vigilant health-care providers, and that she's OK.</p>

<p>Thanks mafool!</p>

<p>We have that yellow pine pollen here in Houston too, but the worst of it has come and gone (everything is in bloom right now). That stuff is the worst...sidewalks, cars everything covered in yellow powder!</p>

<p>When I talked to her she sounded like she had pneumonia. But the doctor told ldgirl that even though she grew up in a bad allergy 'zone', OOS students usually have some sort of issues their first spring in NC. He put her on three different prescriptions, including a nasal spray. She gets migraines and has quite a few triggers (fluorescent lights, fatigue, certain foods), and I think she discovered a new one...North Carolina pollen...lol! </p>

<p>She likes to keep things pretty clean; but I'll mention to her that she may need to wash her sheets and sweep/vacuum more frequently. Showering before bed sounds like a very good idea too.</p>

<p>"Everything is in bloom here"</p>

<p>Sounds wonderful! We have some daffodils-- and an inch of snow!</p>