<p>^^^^^^</p>
<p>It is not any more complicated than that. They dug this hole they need to dig themselves out. </p>
<p>At 18 I was capable of figuring out a loan payment and a budget. If you can’t manage that you are not college material.</p>
<p>Life is hard, get a helmet.</p>
<p>I have colleagues who run large recruiting departments who have trouble finding qualified entry level college grads. Why? They are trying to staff roles in cities that are not NY, DC, Seattle or SF. They are trying to staff roles in non-sexy functions like sales or customer service (these are management level jobs or “training program” type jobs). They need employees who can write, do percentages, read a bar graph, interpret an excel spreadsheet. And horrors- it may take two years of strong performance before an employee is eligible to transfer (or get promoted) to a more desirable city.</p>
<p>So some of the whining is self-induced. If you can’t get your dream job in SF, then take a “not yet dream job” in St Louis or Dayton Ohio and start paying off your loans. If you are still sending out resumes for a job on Capitol Hill and your loans are due and you are frantic- then take a job in Albany or Springfield or Sacramento or Hartford- last time I looked, those were still functioning governments even if their fiscal issues are significant, learn something useful and marketable, and move to DC in four years when you are more valuable on the Hill.</p>
<p>We have raised a generation which believes in this winner take all mentality-- and that compromising is for losers. Yes, the level of debt is atrocious. But you majored in Poli Sci and you think the only career path is in DC? When there are 50 state capitals and thousands of municipalities who all need management and policy and legislation and all that stuff you learned in school?</p>
<p>You gotta feel sorry for this kid- but does he really think that there’s only one place he can get a job?</p>
<p>Every kid entering considering college should just read this and other similar articles and use some common sense. And if the still insist on making dubious choices–enjoy being the subject of the similar article in 2018.</p>
<p>It really does come down to common sense. Even my older kid who graduated HS in 05’ before the recession, realized that a pricey private education was going to cost him/us alot more than a state school. He had some Staffords we had him take out so that he was contributing something to his own education but had the loans paid off within a year of graduating. Going into excessive debt for undergraduate has never been considered a good idea as far as I know.</p>
<p>“Mini, maybe we should but, then again, we don’t make people who take out student loans go to work in Americorps. They are merely required to repay their loans.”</p>
<p>Yeah, just like the bankers. </p>
<p>The point is that private “ethics” are a very poor guide for good public policy (or even good economics). Donald Trump declared bankruptcy three times to get out from under the weight of his loans - he never had to repay them - and most would argue that having him do so (and get to work again) was and is good for the economy. No one ever got rich, or even aided the economy, by balancing his or her checkbook. </p>
<p>We want our kids (collectively) to be contributing members of society. From a purely economic perspective, we want them buying things - cars, houses, (food!), insurance, health care. If college loans make it nearly impossible for them to do so, we are all the losers.</p>
<p>Mini, if they default on govt-secured student loans, the costs are just passed on to taxpayers. If they default on private loans, the banks will pass it on to consumers. They may get to buy more things but the rest of us will get to buy less because we will be paying more in taxes or fees.</p>
<p>And frankly that’s not a cost I’m willing to pay because someone else didn’t save sufficiently for college or chose to attend a school that was financially out of reach. What’s wrong with a little personal responsibility?</p>
<p>This problem could be avoided in the future by requiring parents and child to attend an intensive, burdensome seminar (say 50 hours in total) educating them in all aspects of students loans, repayment, job prospects, etc. before they are allowed to apply for a loan. Of course, then people will start screaming about that. As a society, it seems we are taking less and less responsibility for our choices and expecting the government to bail us out. The school of hard knocks is a wonderful teacher and you can bet if this kid is forced to pay his loans back, his children will have an entirely different experience. I don’t know what is so difficult to understand about taking out a loan–I learned in kindergarten that if I borrowed a nickel from a friend, they expected it back in a reasonable amount of time (sometimes with interest). People who are supposedly intelligent enough to go to college have the intellect to understand what’s involved in taking out a loan. Jobs are not guaranteed to anyone, so I don’t buy the excuse that people think paying off the loan will be easy once they graduate. As someone pointed out earlier, a payment of $800 - $1000 a month is not reasonable for any recent grad–a factor that should have been taken into consideration before taking out loans. I don’t see it as punishment if the parents lose their house–it was part of the deal if that was their collateral.</p>
<p>Blossom, employment in state government throughout the country has decreased, right?</p>
<p>Cptofthehouse, I would give you many green squares if they still existed. I love your posts. They are real.</p>
<p>Mini, I like your posts too.</p>
<p>I keep reading about personal responsibility. What about society’s responsibility? Student loans are treated harsher than other loans in this society. That decision was not made by God.</p>
<p>I think personal finance courses should be taught in high school. Many of these problems would decline.</p>
<p>Many of these students and their doting parents really believe that the newly minted grad is going to land a terrific job upon graduation. After all, isn’t that what they’ve been hearing the last five years – from acceptance to graduation? Come spend your money here and we’ll make you successful. </p>
<p>These are naive and inexperienced young adults who IMO truly don’t understand the mountain of debt they’re in until it’s too late. </p>
<p>And I wholeheartedly agree with the poster upthread who said colleges shouldn’t be allowed to say they meet full need unless they do it WITHOUT loans. During the information session at one of the countries top universities, the adcom flat out said they meet total need if you were accepted. He specified grants and scholarships. The word loan never crossed his lips.</p>
<p>A friend had sat through the same session a month prior and got the same spiel. I had no idea this was a BIG FAT LIE until someone on this board pointed it out. Apparently my friend had chatted with some students (we were there during spring break) and asked about the scholarships. Student said the need was met with loans.</p>
<p>Yes. The need met by loans. Who came up with that marketing strategy? :)</p>
<p>Agentninetynine, only about 20 colleges in the country meet full need of domestic students without loans. I do think, as you pointed out, that few people realize this. People also often don’t realize that loans do not lower their EFC.</p>
<p>There is a lot of misinformation out there. Parents often think their efc is all they’ll pay and a lot of people think they can just ‘declare independent’ and kids will get money thrown at them. I have no problem with the idea that students volunteer and have loans repaid. The program exists and it would make sense to expand it. (I’ve often thought that there should be many vehicles to allow doctors to pay back their education with service.) But I wish our education worked a bit more like in some countries where the public universities are essentially free or close to it and, thus, are the most competitive and best institutions in the country.</p>
<p>Well I have a solution for this kid–he can become a paid speaker who travels from high school to high school educating people on the pitfalls of student loans via his personal story. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.</p>
<p>“The student was 18 years old. Most 18 year olds don’t understand debt. Many older adults don’t understand debt either.” - dstark</p>
<p>Most presidents and congressmen don’t understand debt either.</p>
<p>This poly sci major will fit right in!</p>
<p>2college – Can you explain about the EFC? If University X says my EFC is say 30% am I to believe we will pay more than that?</p>
<p>Glido… :).</p>
<p>Full Disclosure - I was a bankruptcy attorney (mostly Debtor’s side) for over 25 years. I remember the changes to the Bankruptcy Code and their effect on ability to discharge debt related to educational loans. In general, I believe, in at least this part of Mini’s philosophy:
But we don’t have to make it easy either.</p>
<p>Years ago you could discharge in a Chapter 7 educational debt (then limited to Federal or college financed loans) only after five years of non-payment. This was later increased to seven years. During those years you could not seek extensions or the time period started again. Therefore, the collectors could “hound” you for five to seven years before you could get bankruptcy relief. Eventually Congress made two changes (1) No discharge of educational debt in a Chapter 7 and (2) Educational debt included debt made by lenders other than the Federal government or the colleges, i.e. banks. Like the policies that caused the housing bubble, it was with the best of intentions. By making these changes more kids could get the loans to go to college (and best of all the Federal government did not have to make or guaranty the loans).</p>
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<p>I would disagree. While student loans are not dischargeable and personal income taxes are after three years, you do not want to have the IRS and its collectors after you. They can do many things that student loan debt collectors cannot. It is also not possible to discharge tax debt if it is for an employee’s withholding taxes, even if you did not personally receive any benefit from the non-payment.</p>
<p>Agentninetynine, I was referring to FAFSA EFC. There are many people who believe that the FAFSA number is all they’ll pay.</p>