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The only val-sal manouvering that has upset me is when a local school tried to withdraw special services from a kid with a neurological disorder, when it became apparent that he was probably going to be sal.
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How on earth did the school justify this? And did they actually withdraw the services?</p>
<p>That's interesting, Missypie. Maybe she took 2 English courses in one year, onsite.</p>
<p>How does curmudgeon know so much about this? Well...thanks for asking. ;) For those who don't know my D was locked in a duel with a brilliant young man from the moment they entered middle school. At one point they were separated by .003. Yep . Three thousandths of a point. I approached the counselor with this idea - Hey. Can they just agree to be co-val's and they can both give it a bit of a rest senior year? (They were far ahead of #3. It would have required a meltdown of epic proportions for it not to be one of the two.)
Answer- No. We can call them co-, but only one gets the $. Our policy is to keep going out to .0000000000000000000000000001 if we had to to get a winner. We believe that it is what the state mandates. </p>
<p>It came down to the AP bio and he had to score 1 point higher than she did and they made the same score. It was the talk of the school leading up to it (teachers , too!). LOL. The kids handled it well. They continued to share notes and help each other but let me assure you...it was a competition . They both had their own cheerleaders. I thought it was healthy. Nobody seemed worse for the wear. They both had wonderful opps coming out of high school. BTW, her ACT is in exact concordance with (what we were told was) his SAT. LOL. Go figure.</p>
<p>Cur- so who ended up as Val?</p>
<p>That would be the 'smudge. ;)</p>
<p>I agree with Pizzagirl. The family should move on. My sons would be so angry with my husband and me if we ever made such an issue of this. And truthfully, we could have.</p>
<p>Unlike this young lady's school district, ours does not seem to write anything down, and yes, that is dangerous. Policies seem to be made up as one goes along or at least that's how the kids often think. My son seriously thought about graduating early. He had the credits, GPA and test scores. Ever since he learned about the title of valedictorian, he has wanted to be his school's and give a graduation address. What stopped him from graduating early was the some kids heard about this, complained to their parents and suddenly we had a change that said a kid could graduate early but would lose some senior privileges. One would be the valedictorian title. I should mention that his scores and GPA are higher than this year's class. That's why we had this little problem.</p>
<p>So my son elected to graduate with his class. He probably will be the valedictorian next year but we still have another year to go. Before you wonder, yes, his feelings were a bit hurt. Kids whom he thought were friends said some pretty ugly things about him, but he got over that. He even tutored some of them in various subjects. </p>
<p>For all the APs he has taken, good grades he has made, service projects he has done, the thing I can be most proud of is that he does have some degree of class. It will serve him well in life.</p>
<p>Cur- Thanks. The answer was obvious but I didn't read closely enough. Sometimes I do that. It's an age thing.</p>
<p>Momreads- I understand what you mean about class, but I can also understand this girl's and her parent's anger. If school system's don't communicate the rules until the 11th hour and/or change the rules willy nilly, there is great potential to do harm to the students. And not just the potential Vals and Sals.</p>
<p>From the father's perspective, he has nothing to lose by whining and potentially something to gain- even if it is only increasing awareness about the various ways GPA, rank and Status, as well as state scholarships are determined. Throughout this site, many have bemoaned the lack of transparency in the college admissions and financial aid scenarios. I think this situation reveals the lack of transparency in rank, GPA, etc in high school. His whining will either do nothing, which causes no more harm, or cause the school district to review once again, which could be positive, but most probably will not be negative.</p>
<p>Well, it certainly will get parents to dust off their handbooks if their kids interested in such things . That's a given.</p>
<p>Now, this is val thing is just about bragging rights and some samoleans. If you want to see a true barbed-wire Texas death match watch that last position in the top 10% when there is a Burnt Orange family one place out. :eek: That's where the fur will be flying.</p>
<p>Our last Top 10% winner is .0001 ahead of the first non-Top 10% loser. BUMMER.</p>
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The Val had been a 3 sport athlete for all 4 years and the credits for being an athlete, since they were unweighted, resulted in his having a lower GPA than the other student. They had both gotten straight A's in all of their academic classes, had taken the same number of honors/AP classes, etc. The only difference in their transcripts was that the Val had played sports and the Sal. did not. </p>
<p>The rules at this school are that the principal made the final selection with input from the department chairs - and they decided that the Val deserved to be rewarded for his extra contribution to the school (via athletics) rather than punished. </p>
<p>To their credit, when asked, the Sal. and her parents did not complain, simply saying to the paper that she thought the decision was fair.
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The school gives academic credit for being an athlete?! </p>
<p>The sal and her parents showed a lot of class, because this situation was simply ridiculous. What other special exceptions are made? Suppose someone takes unweighted music or art classes? I bet it doesn't happen then. </p>
<p>The val made a choice to play sports. Rather than being "punished" by playing sports, he simply should have been made to accept a natural consequence. Kids make choices all the time about courses and activities, and there are consequences for those choices.</p>
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My point is that this young lady has been allowed to take courses that would boost her GPA that others are not allowed to take. I think she should be content and proud.
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</p>
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A sense of entitlement is pet peeve of mine. Rules are for "others."
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Exactly.</p>
<p>Pipmom, I think most here don't agree at all that the discrict's policy didn't "fairly account for this type of student." I think the policy is very fair. It doesn't reward those who are constantly seeking exceptions, which is clearly more fair to all. I don't think any outside courses should be included in GPA. There is absolutely no standardization of grading, and often college courses are easier than those offered in the high school. I'm not a fan of ranking to begin with, as it can create silly situations where kids are seperated by thousandths of a point & assigning a rank implies there is a dimes's worth of difference between those kids' achievements, when there clearly is not. </p>
<p>Here's more silliness:
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Her class rank issue, while painful, did no real harm.
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Pain? Over a high school class rank? I sincerely hope the child never has to experience ture problems or tragedy if being ranked third would evoke pain.</p>
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</p>
<p>I have heard of some that include cheerleading.</p>
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Suppose someone takes unweighted music or art classes? I bet it doesn't happen then.
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Another argument against ranking. It can put artificial focus on a GPA number rather than encouraging kids to focus on their talents & passions. </p>
<p>In this case, if I understand it correctly, the school actually considers athletic participation to be a course? I've never heard of that, but if true, then this principal & her committee just removed the unweighted athletic courses from consideration, saw a tie & identical transcripts, and decided to reward the participation in athletics. The tie breaker could have been based on any activity, but from what is posted here, it seems the sal had nothing that the committee was aware of.</p>
<p>Pipmom,</p>
<p>You are correct. School systems need to make everything clear. We still do not have clear policies on graduating early at my son's school. Nor are the clear about some weighting of classes. This is a lawsuit age. If things do vnot go your way, you sue.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, I bet there is some serious fur flying in Texas. One of my students was interested in applying to some Texas schools, but I was honest. I thought she would have a tough time getting in, because she will not be in the top 10 percent in our school. I was glad to see your D had such a healthy competition for that top spot. They pushed each other, and that made them better students. More kids need to experience that.</p>
<p>And as for giving credit for playing sports, come on. I'd have some coaches rejoicing with that -- the same who blast the school for having AP classes.</p>
<p>StickerShock- Your quote was mine about my daughter. And yes, there is pain when a person does not get something they feel they deserve, whether they are correct in that assumption or not. And no, a teenager's pain, hurt, suffering,etc. is not silliness. It is very real to the person. Further, you know nothing of our family's situation, and my daughter has endured tragedy. That pain was different from the pain of not being Val, but both hurt.</p>
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My daughter, by the way, is the highest ranking senior who attended her school all four years, but is #3. Why- because 1 and 2 did freshman and sophomore years elsewhere at schools, both within district and out of state, that offered more pre-AP weighted courses in their curriculum. My D took every pre and AP course she could. Is this fair?- I'd say not and have raised the issue with the school.
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If a student transfers in, their courses should be re-weighted to align with the receiving school's criteria. Schools have different ways of weighting courses, after all (no weighting of "pre AP" and honors courses here).</p>
<p>Cur- You are right about the fur flying re the 10% thing. And making folks aware of the need to really understand various calculations to which money, title, etc can be tied is not a bad thing. </p>
<p>I've tried to make a distinction here between hurt/pain and true harm. This girl's hurt over not being named valedictorian is a life lesson for her- she will get over it and will learn that life is not fair. Just as my D has with her situation, and all others who have fallen into "cracks" that are not completely covered. </p>
<p>Whether she has been "harmed" is debatable- it depends on what she really needs and we don't know that. But, her situation raises a question of whether or not the district's policy is potentially harmful. That's all.</p>
<p>Deja- I agree, but as we are all aware, what Should be is not always what is. Hence life lessons about "unfairness". I'm annoyed about the class rank thing for my D, but not as annoyed as Anjali's dad.</p>
<p>Well, under the rules as set by Anjali's school district, pipmom, your D would be ranked #1. So this rule, as Deja stated it and you agree, is valid for your D, but shouldn't be applied to Anjali? Hmmmm. . .</p>