Student Loans? Help May Be On the Way

Paying for College
61

<p>You might want to also concede that teachers don't make an average of 100K where you live, and in fact those at the top rung only make $80k.</p>

<p>As for average household income, one must consider that not everyone is married, that 50% of marriages end up in divorce, and that disability of a family member is not an infrequent occurrence. It is another social issue that in order to maintain a middle class household it must have two wage earners at any given time. I think that it is going to come as a shock to retiring people that even with $1 million in a 401k plan, that a balanced portfolio earns only $40k per year (figuring a 4% yield.)</p>

62

<p>Matts mom, teachers with MA, which is now requirement for certification, do make 100K at top of chart.</p>

<p>I am glad you reminded us of retirement. In the unionized NE states, teachers, along with with other civil servants, are the few that still have real pensions. On top of the salaries. And minimal contributions for health care. I realize that may not be true in FL, but it is true up north. My guess is some of your neighbors are retired teachers from up north. </p>

<p>I am not certain what your point is that in order to maintain a middle class household, two salaries may be required.</p>

63

<p>Right, as I said at the beginning of this...only teachers at the very end of their career make close to $100K...in White Plains, it takes a master's too. </p>

<p>My husband will not receive a pension, as he works for a private school. The health care contributions as a Broward County teacher are comparable to what we are paying now. </p>

<p>My mother is a retired teacher from up north who is now a neighbor. She was able to raise my brother and I as a single mother in an apartment on the upper east side. Try that today!</p>

<p>As for Westchester, generous health care benefits are on their way out. This from an article in the American Association of School Administrator's article published just last month.</p>

<p>
[quote]
With burgeoning increases in health premium expenses, however, even this incremental approach has proved inadequate. In negotiations with the Blind Brook-Rye Teachers Federation, the school board sought a more dramatic approach, insisting all future premium increases be shared equally by teachers and school district.</p>

<p>The board’s plan was simple. Freeze the current percentage contribution at 11.5 percent of the 2007 premium. For a family plan, the teacher contribution was $1,693 (11.5 percent of $14,722). Any additional costs over the duration of the four-year agreement would be equally borne by the school district and teacher. Assuming the average annual increase is 10 percent, a teacher’s rate of contribution would escalate proportionally.</p>

<p>For example, if the family plan premium in New York increased by 40 percent from $14,722 in 2007 to $20,610 in 2011, teachers would handle 50 percent of the annual increase beginning in 2008 and pay over that period the annual base premium of $1,693 in addition to one-half of the increase each year.</p>

<p>Based on this partnership formula, the school district’s contribution to health insurance would be considerably lower over the four-year period. This formula, originally negotiated for the largest bargaining unit of teachers and teaching assistants, will become a major demand when negotiations begin later this year with the smaller administrative and civil service units.</p>

<p>Both approaches — differential staffing, which reduces the number of employees receiving full-time benefits, and collective bargaining, which increases the employee’s share of health care costs — promise to help districts control costs while maintaining solid support for the education of our students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>American</a> Association of School Administrators - Publications - The School Administrator - Trimming Costs in Personnel & Health Care</p>

<p>I'd say this is a backdoor approach to lowering salaries dramatically over the coming years. Good luck with that.</p>

64

<p>Matt, but they start at 50K, well above the Cherry Hill numbers you initially presented as average for NJ.</p>

<p>Many middle class people feel they cant replicate the life their parents had, that doesnt mean that teachers and civil servants are especially deserving of student loan relief.</p>

<p>Employers everywhere are asking that employees help with increased insurance costs. That is all that is being asked for above.</p>

65

<p>Teaching used to attract a very high qaulity employee - for example my mother attended law school, but chose to be a NYC schoolteacher due to the strong union that secured attractive benefits like pension, and health coverage. This was in addition to having hours and summers off that allowed her to be home when her children were. </p>

<p>This is just not the case today. I am not quite sure who you expect would be willing to enter teaching with student loan debt, and salaries about to be dramatically cost-cutted with health insurance premiums. I haven't checked pension benefits, but I imagine they're being phased out with a 401K type plan.</p>

<p>I do not understand your point about middle class people who feel they cant replicate the lives of their parents and what that has to do with civil servants being relieved of student aid debt.</p>

<p>Cherry Hill teacher salaries started at $44k, not really well below $50K, and nowhere near approaching $100k, the average you believed to be the case. I picked a random New Jersey town as you only said you were from the NE.</p>

66

<p>I beleive you said NJ salaries averaged 44K, when that was the Cherry Hill average. Your "random" pick happened to be well below the NJ average. I never said 100K was average, please stop repeating that. </p>

<p>Teaching used to attract high quality employees -- I agree with that, but not because they were paid more (in terms of inflation adjusted, or in comparison with others), but because women had limited options. Before the 1970s, when women had less options, before civil rights legislation was extended to women, teachers earned less. Now, as the job has become unionized, they earn more and college level education students are ON AVERAGE less capable than most other majors. </p>

<p>I am not aware of any decrease in college students heading for education certification (either major, or whatever is needed).</p>

67

<p>
[quote]
college level education students are ON AVERAGE less capable than most other majors.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Assuming that were a true statement, and I suspect someone is going to rightfully raise holy hell about it, you'll have to tell me how an education major is the right person to teach higher level foreign language, math, history, english and/or science classes?</p>

68

<p>Where i live, anyone who wants an education certification has to have certain courses and pass state tests. Education major only for EE, not HS.</p>

69

<p>Mattsmom, the funny thing about this is my D wants to be a criminal lawyer, which I have told she will likely start out in a DAs office. And I want her to get teaching credentials as a backup. And my guess is your kids will end up doing more like what I do professionally.</p>

70

<p>Kayf- The reason that they are trapped is the 30,000+ that it usually takes for them to acquire the bachelors and teachers certification precludes the effective choice of going downscale in employment status. They have to make it, because of the manner in which the student debt laws are written should they remain on the search in job market too long or become underemployed "do you want fries with that'...they've had it. All it takes is a deferment or two, or a late payment and then the little gems like the 200+% fee enhancements permitted these companies can kick into action. Plus it's a dirty little secret of the corporate lenders that they want to push these loans into default as they get federal guarantee payments, their own fee enhancements (amongst their own most profitable divisions are collections-it's a common practice to sell their own loans to themselves), federal payments for remediation of 'defaulted loans' and etc. The whole situation has gotten so out of hand that some of these companies have reported loans in deferment as defaulted in order to collect default remediation subsidies. </p>

<p>So combined with a very bad economy and the aforementioned conditions that's why your county saw the large number of teacher applicants. It's a matter of some desperation. Plus your county seems to be quite affluent and so many of those applicants may be experienced teachers who are trying to leave other districts because of potential better pay. Which is often a difficult decision for teachers as many feel quite strong loyalties to the communities they serve. </p>

<p>The fact that there has been little current drop in admissions to teachers certification programs is an effect of the population which these programs serve. Historically teacher training has been the route that the working and lower middle classes have taken to get into the lower echelons of the professional class. (and as kayf noted women) Under our current economy many have been dislocated from other jobs (some of which paid well for being skilled trades and etc). And so the reflexive response is back to school, whether they can actually afford it or not.</p>

<p>But now they also have competition from trades and classes who've lost status and are also looking to teachers programs for some alternative. </p>

<p>The education programs know this and that's one of the reasons they've lobbied for Bach's and teachers certifications for ECE people, substitutes and even teachers aids (who often used to be students gaining experience, retirees and etc) In some regards they are acting with their own benefit in mind and not necessarily that of students and society. Have to remember these are the programs to first hype 'lifelong learner'. </p>

<p>Mattsmom, Quite true the old escape route of law school is closing up. That costs too much now to be an effective solution.</p>

71

<p>
[quote]
Mattsmom, the funny thing about this is my D wants to be a criminal lawyer, which I have told she will likely start out in a DAs office. And I want her to get teaching credentials as a backup. And my guess is your kids will end up doing more like what I do professionally.

[/quote]
^^^^kayf</p>

<p>What do you do? My son wants to be a professor. He's planning on majoring in cognitive science and linguistics, and my daughter wants to be a photographer.</p>

72

<p>oops guessed wrong, private equity</p>

73

<p>lol - I guess that says it all</p>

74

<p>"What do you do? My son wants to be a professor. He's planning on majoring in cognitive science and linguistics, and my daughter wants to be a photographer" </p>

<p>MattsmomFL. Your son might find that the route to professor could be a bit convoluted. Due to budget cutbacks, state funding issues etc many who do wish to become academics do end up as adjuncts. So that's a matter of teaching for several institutions or trying to establish private businesses or etc on the side. Adjunct positions are obviously nothing to count on, and academe at times has the moral failing of telling all the adjuncts to wait and FT's will come to them. But going into cognitive physics and linguistics would serve him well-should there be delays in his getting a professorship the corporate and government people will have need for his discipline. </p>

<p>Photographer much tougher as are most disciplines related to the various arts. But people can and do succeed. But they will need a flexibility which many of their professors have had no real experience, their coming in when times where better. </p>

<p>And all that is perhaps another reason the federals are trying to reinstate loan forgiveness for those programs they still have some direct influence upon. Especially loan abatement programs for lower echelon academics (teachers). They may be beginning to worry about a 'brain drain' caused by the effects of educational debt. And they are likely getting concerned about the attendant social problems which could arise from losing education as a means to stabilize the lower economic classes. The below is from the CIA world fact data site (2009) and it does seem to acknowledge, indirectly or directly, these concerns. Gods only know what's in the in house assessments people like the CIA are making about educational, debt and social issues...</p>

<p>"Long-term problems include inadequate investment in economic infrastructure, rapidly rising medical and pension costs of an aging population, sizable trade and budget deficits, and stagnation of family income in the lower economic groups."</p>

<p>"The onrush of technology largely explains the gradual development of a "two-tier labor market" in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits"</p>

<p>"Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households."</p>

75

<p>Another overly complicated bureacratic welfare-state non-solution. What about spending the money on holding down state tuitions, keeping illegal aliens from driving up costs by attending at instate rates, and requiring privates to spend their tax-advantaged endowments on rolling back the sticker price of tuition (or eliminating it all together)? and, while we're at it let's prosecute the colleges for price fixing because of the way they have been setting tuition and awarding financial aid.</p>

76

<p>
[quote]
MattsmomFL. Your son might find that the route to professor could be a bit convoluted. Due to budget cutbacks, state funding issues etc many who do wish to become academics do end up as adjuncts. So that's a matter of teaching for several institutions or trying to establish private businesses or etc on the side. Adjunct positions are obviously nothing to count on, and academe at times has the moral failing of telling all the adjuncts to wait and FT's will come to them. But going into cognitive physics and linguistics would serve him well-should there be delays in his getting a professorship the corporate and government people will have need for his discipline.</p>

<p>Photographer much tougher as are most disciplines related to the various arts. But people can and do succeed. But they will need a flexibility which many of their professors have had no real experience, their coming in when times where better.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Thanks. Our family is familiar with the professor situation because my brother just received a full professorship from Yale after an unbelievably long struggle. My daughter actually wants biomedical photography, which she plans to study at RIT. The program has an 80% job placement rate.</p>

77

<p>
[quote]
And all that is perhaps another reason the federals are trying to reinstate loan forgiveness for those programs they still have some direct influence upon. Especially loan abatement programs for lower echelon academics (teachers). They may be beginning to worry about a 'brain drain' caused by the effects of educational debt. And they are likely getting concerned about the attendant social problems which could arise from losing education as a means to stabilize the lower economic classes. The below is from the CIA world fact data site (2009) and it does seem to acknowledge, indirectly or directly, these concerns. Gods only know what's in the in house assessments people like the CIA are making about educational, debt and social issues...</p>

<p>"Long-term problems include inadequate investment in economic infrastructure, rapidly rising medical and pension costs of an aging population, sizable trade and budget deficits, and stagnation of family income in the lower economic groups."</p>

<p>"The onrush of technology largely explains the gradual development of a "two-tier labor market" in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits"</p>

<p>"Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households."

[/quote]
^^^ Atana</p>

<p>I have nothing to add here. Just wanted to comment that it was very interesting. Scary stuff.</p>

78

<p>Mia - </p>

<p>"Another overly complicated bureacratic welfare-state non-solution. What about spending the money on holding down state tuitions, keeping illegal aliens from driving up costs by attending at instate rates, and requiring privates to spend their tax-advantaged endowments on rolling back the sticker price of tuition (or eliminating it all together)? and, while we're at it let's prosecute the colleges for price fixing because of the way they have been setting tuition and awarding financial aid."</p>

<p>Absolutely right. Actually there is a federal law requiring states to charge illegal aliens OOS tuition. Most states, inlcuding mne, ignore it</p>

79

<p>"Another overly complicated bureacratic welfare-state non-solution. What about spending the money on holding down state tuitions" </p>

<p>Because they are spending that money for subsidies to corporate lenders. The most recent trick is to have the subsidies which had already been paid, back paid for another decade with a .5% increase. Which doesn't seem like much until one gets a sense of the overall numbers involved. </p>

<p>It was the outgoing USDOE Directors little gift to her friends in the corporate lending sector of educational funding. And it's still included in the bailout/TARP funds from late last year. </p>

<p>It's not necessarily just a problem of bureaucratic welfare statism, but a matter of whose getting that welfare and why. A generation ago when they largely privatized the student loan programs which were under government venue the supposed intent was to make the programs more efficient. But what happens is they took a working and largely equitable program and turned that into one of the most massive forms of corporate welfare extant in US government history. </p>

<p>Illegals and some student educational loan forgiveness are one issue, but what's spent on those is pocket change compared to the subsidies, over payments, fraudulent billings and etc handed over to these corporate lenders. And this is an amount which is so large that getting an accounting of the entire amount of money is almost impossible.</p>

<p>But just perhaps they want it that way...</p>

80

<p>Dear Atana,</p>

<p>How do you know tuitition subsidies for illegals are pocket change? My state allows undocumented in state tuition. Where are those people going to be able to find jobs? They should become legal first, then get subsidies.</p>