<p>After the recent SAT test, a girl in D's school openly admitted to cheating on the math sections. She says she deliberately sat next to a smart boy, who she knew did much better than she did on the last sitting. D was annoyed when the girl told her this, but figured she hadn't personally witnessed the cheating, so what could she do? (Not to mention that the school has proven itself to be untrustworthy when dealing with issues like this and the whistleblower is the one who ends up with all the trouble, not the perpetrator.) Also, D wondered if the girl's plan wouldn't backfire anyway if the other student had a different form of the test than she did. Well, the scores came out yesterday and the girl went up 210 points. Her new subscore puts her in a range which would be pretty unlikely for her to achieve given her math level. D isn't going to say anything and I agree she shouldn't, but this galls me. Any chance ETS might catch this? By the way, our proctors are notorious for not paying attention.</p>
<p>I would think if it raised a flag with CB the scores would be delayed. I tutored a child for the SAT and his scores when up nearly 500 points total and CB delayed his tests scores until they could verify that the scores were accurate. I know his guidance counselor had contact with CB and explained that he had a tutor for 3 months.</p>
<p>It may be a short-term gain and a long-term pain. Say she gets into a school which she really won’t do well in. Will she be happy there? Or maybe admissions will catch the variance between grades and SAT scores.</p>
<p>My daughter has issues with other students trying to copy off her paper in her classes. She had one student copying her in class so she wrote on her paper that she should stop copying her. Our son has had this problem for many years. Some students have asked him if they could sit near him because he has such high grades.</p>
<p>A 210 point increase may be enough for CB to flag the result - who knows??? But if that’s a combined increase there’s no telling what portion of it is from the math test. </p>
<p>I’d let it pass secure in the knowledge that the girl will fail at some point in the process.</p>
<p>If the increase is 210 just in the math subscore - it should flag for attention!
Can you imagine 550 to 760 ?</p>
<p>^ It’s an increase just in the math portion.</p>
<p>Well, it should flag.
I am also surprised that they got the same version of the test.</p>
<p>I too am surprised they got the same version of the test…if her math score is an “outlier” from the rest of her transcript, not sure it’s really going to matter for college admissions; they’ll just think she did well on the test; transcript will reveal the true ability…</p>
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<p>Yeah, I accomplished such an increase back in the dark ages (prior to recentering). SAT math is not complex – it’s only Alg I & Geom, and now a few, simple Alg II problems. What makes the SAT “difficult” is the timing and the “reasoning” component. </p>
<p>Indeed, if you read CBs own internal reports you’ll note that with test prep (can be self-taught thru a library book), some kids do have increases of 200 points on the math subtest. For someone with decent math skills, and logic ability (aka reasoning), it’s all a matter of becoming familiar with the test along the lines of the xiggi method.</p>
<p>But to the OP: I agree with the others – let it go.</p>
<p>Let it go. The College Board flags all suspicious activity. It is highly unlikely that this girl was able to raise her score over 200 points by sneaking peeks at her neighbor’s answer sheet. Many students can raise their scores 200 points just by being another year older and smarter. As noted above, certain scores on the SAT statistically go up more than others. For example, look at your own daughter’s score report: they give score ranges and then tell you what the average score increase on retakes is.</p>
<p>As I said in the OP, there was never really a question D or I would get involved. I just wondered if there was a chance this would get caught. It would make me feel better!</p>
<p>Perhaps I’ll be one of the only people that doesn’t feel wrong about cheating on standardized testing. They don’t prove anything other than how well you can test so cheating neither shows that the child’s abilities are higher or lower, simply that they can apply for more schooling successfully. I would have cheated as well if I found a way because I don’t see the validity in testing or using it as a recommended application in college admissions.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t condone cheating in the classroom due to the fact that most of what you learn is valuable material that you will carry on with you through college. Testing is not.</p>
<p>Wow. The slippery slope of ethical decay is revealed.</p>
<p>^^^^Wow!!!</p>
<p>You condone cheating by justifying that what you are cheating at isn’t that valuable in your eyes?</p>
<p>{My post was referring to post #12…cross posted with fauve but we obviously reacted similarly!}</p>
<p>To add to Vehicle’s comments - in a sense, all test-prep is “cheating” in the context of a standardized test simply because it puts the students on an uneven playing field, to the extent that the tests are supposed to be a measure of basic aptitudes or abilities. I don’t agree with Vehicle’s take on cheating – copying off of someone else’s test is never ok, no matter how stupid the test – but I do agree that the tests have very little validity in terms of college admissions.</p>
<p>I do think, however, that a high math SAT is not going to help a student unless their high school courses and GPA also show high math ability. That is – a kid who has B’s in math and was on a regular math track rather than an accelerated, honors, or AP track is not going to get a particular benefit from a high score – and a kid who is in AP calculus earning A’s probably can do the math, even if their SAT score is not as high as you would expect. (Just because a person is good in math doesn’t mean that they are fast, or that they handle the multiple-choice setting well – part of the “trick” to a good math SAT score is recognizing that it is not necessary to actually work out the problems for the vast majority of the questions.).</p>
<p>TheGFG wrote:
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<p>Given that the math SAT focuses mostly on skills acquired in basic algebra and geometry, I am guessing that “math level” means that this particular kid is NOT in AP Calc. So again… my comments above stand. The Ad Com won’t know she cheated, but if they have both scores and they have her transcript, they will probably assume that there was a lot of test prep or tutoring involved – and they are going to make their decision based on the transcript, not on the test scores. If the high score is at odds with the transcript, it could hurt in a way – it could be taken as evidence that the kid is a slacker or underachiever. (They might wonder, why would a kid who has, say, 720 on the math SAT be taking the easy math track at her school? Why would such a kid have B’s and C’s in math?)</p>
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<p>I disagree. Schools are interested in rankings and want those high SAT/ACT scores. Also, a lot of schools have merit aid tied to these scores along with GPA (and GPA often does not consider the high school one came from, and sometimes track of the class is not considered either).</p>
<p>I’m concerned that the innocent boy with the good score will somehow be blamed or accused of helping her cheat, because it’s hard to really see someone elses score sheet w/o help unless the cheater has spectacular vision or was “helped”</p>
<p>I feel a little uneasy about the “let it go” advice. It’s been a couple of centuries since I took the SAT, but isn’t there some kind of honor code requirement that if you observe cheating you’re obligated to report it? I realize this wasn’t an eyewitness observation, but I do think any college or university worth its salt would have an honor code under which if you know about cheating and fail to report it, you’re effectively implicated in the cover-up. It might not get you expelled, but it might bring some kind of sanction; and more importantly, it sets a clear and strong ethical standard, in my judgment an appropriate one. So I don’t think this as easy as “just let it go.” Your D needs to think about her own ethical obligations here. It’s complicated. Reporting it involves betraying confidences and being a “snitch,” and no one likes a snitch. On the other hand, remaining silent implicates her in a conspiracy of silence on an ethical matter of the kind that colleges take very seriously.</p>
<p>I agree with those who say the score bump isn’t likely to help the cheater nearly as much as she thinks. SATs alone are not nearly as important as many people think. If her credentials were otherwise impeccable except for a low SAT math score, and she were able to raise that score up to a level that matched her grades, teacher recs, GC rec, other parts of the SAT, and any other standardized test scores, then sure, it would help her. But this doesn’t sound like that kind of student. Cheaters usually aren’t. That’s why they cheat.</p>
<p>I’m not convinced of the flagging. I wonder to what extent it mythology that makes us all feel better. </p>
<p>As someone often reading graduate level applications, I’ve seen VERY VERY funky GMAT and GRE scores. The most extreme being someone who I’m convinced was hiring people to sit for him (because of the giant variability in verbal and quant scores across 4 sittings).</p>
<p>First of all, I find it highly unlikely that this girl is telling the truth about cheating. #1, they usually organize you by last name, so it’s impossible to “deliberately sit next to a smart boy.” #2, they usually don’t sit people near others with the same test (to cut down on cheating). I increased my math score from 560->720. Fair and square. It’s possible the girl is just lying to cause drama/create a story. </p>
<p>And say she cheated. How is this your D’s business, your business, anyone’s business, really? Who cares what school she gets into or what she does with her life? We are individuals and we make individual choices. Cheating will catch up to her one day - maybe. But maybe not. Who cares? Worry about your own life and your own choices, eh?</p>