I mentioned the SSR above. The questions are a standard part of the Common App and have been, for years. More recently, the Common App split this into 2 documents, SSR and CR.
“Compared to other students in his or her class year, how do you rate this student in terms of…” The higher ratings are "Excellent (top 10%,) “Outstanding (top 5%,)” and “One of the top few encountered in my career.”
The high school prolife is different. That’s where you get details about the hs.
@doschicos I consider “everything in their power” to mean that the school helps the child. That doesn’t mean giving an excellent review to a student who doesn’t deserve it. But, a school shouldn’t ignore a student because the parents are difficult to deal with. There are quite a few posts here on CC complaining about how their child’s counselor doesn’t help them enough. Look at how many posters here discuss getting private counselors to get their children into college because they don’t believe their child’s counselor is getting the job done. And, for $42,000/year, I would expect my child to have the qualifications to be admitted to a top school.
Then you need to level set your expectations.
No HS, regardless of its cost, will, by virtue of its name/prestige/cost/[insert your own parameter] get a child into a “top school” (however one defines that). A particular high school may give a student the tools with which to develop him/herself into a viable candidate, but others schools may as well. Colleges admit students, not high schools. While the professionals at the schools are ready and willing to assist in the process, they will not, and should not, do the work for the student/family.
This may come as a shock many people, but 50% of the graduating class from Sidwell Friends is in the bottom half of the class. Almost all of that cohort will go to fine schools, but there should be no expectation that Harvard, Princeton, Penn, Duke, etc. be anything other than extremely high reaches.
roycroftmom, I am likely to defend anyone of any age, if there is not a lot of information to go on, and negatives are being assumed. As I said earlier, a plaintiff in a federal suit is being plenty assertive, and does not need protection from the get-go. But if posters start making unflattering assumptions about the person, then I am likely to offer some defense. If I am not doing that on some other thread, it is probably because I am not reading it!
It is a charming thought by lookingforward that the school might have kept Dayo because they liked her, despite her parents’ actions.
I agree with post #272 by lookingforward, and also with post #274 by RandyErika.
The fact that many students are capable of Ivy caliber work, but are not admitted to any Ivy creates a kind of conundrum for those who are suggesting that a high school should work to match the student’s academic level to the college and that therefore, Sidwell was acting in the student’s best interests on the first go-around.
There is presumably a benefit to a capable student from being in the most challenging environment that the student can handle. In my experience, students learn more in that circumstance.
There is also a tricky aspect with an engineering major at some excellent non-Ivy universities for engineering. For example, to continue in an engineering major at the University of Wisconsin, a student needs a minimum core GPA in the required university STEM courses. For the twelve engineering majors offered, for 2019-2020, the minimum ranges from 2.8 to 3.5 depending on the field. Only three of the twelve have a cut-off of 2.8 and three have a cut-off of 3.5. At the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, a student who wants to transfer into mechanical engineering needs a GPA of 3.9! I haven’t located the GPA minimum to continue, if there is one. But at some of the large universities with strong engineering programs in the Midwest, there are quite a few students who have not been able to continue in engineering. My university has GPA cut-offs for admission to engineering majors, based on the university GPA in a set of required STEM courses that are pre-requisites for officially having a major in engineering. So a student might be on par academically with the overall student body at one of the large public universities, yet find that it is not possible to become an engineer there. A high school’s attempt to match a student to a college can become a challenge then.
For that money, you should expect better facilities, more interesting clubs/activities, smaller classes, better counseling, perhaps a better learning and challenging environment. The private school also wants you to think that you may get better college admission results, but it never states explicitly or guarantees anything on college admissions. It simply can’t turn an average student into a genius. Besides, it likely has more legacies and other hooked students, so your student has to compete with all of them for those spots at top colleges.
Your kid still needs to earn his/her qualifications to be admitted to a “top” college, regardless of what high school s/he attends.
However, the high school can matter in terms of increasing opportunities to earn achievements that will impress “top” colleges (e.g. course offerings, extracurricular offerings), better or more personalized nurturing by teachers and counselors, fewer barriers, and/or better support during the college application process (including teachers and counselors who are well trained at writing recommendations, lack of rationing recommendations, better assessment of admission chances, and perhaps privileged connections to some “top” colleges). That is presumably why many parents pay $42k per year for “elite” private high schools.
Wisconsin does have relatively aggressive weeding of students who think they have been directly admitted to engineering majors:
https://www.engr.wisc.edu/academics/student-services/academic-advising/first-year-undergraduate-students/progression-requirements/
UIUC engineering majors are typically filled to capacity, so it is often very difficult to change into them if one is not directly admitted to them (UIUC admits most engineering majors by direct admission as frosh or transfers from other colleges). However, it does not weed all that heavily for students already in the major. The requirements to stay in the major are 2.25 GPA in a subset of technical courses, and 2.00 GPA in other technical courses:
http://mechanical.illinois.edu/undergraduate/bs-mechanical-engineering#ME225GPATGPA
Some other flagship-level colleges admit to a first year engineering program. Students complete some college courses, then apply to their majors. Sometimes, this may be be non-competitive (Michigan, Virginia, Pittsburgh), but others may have higher GPA requirements or competitive admission (Purdue, Minnesota, Ohio State, Penn State, Virginia Tech, Texas A&M). This may exist at private colleges as well; Cornell has this type of system, but the GPA requirements for various engineering majors are in the mid 2.x range, rather than 3.0 or higher that can create a greater sense of weed-out environment.
Other than the comments already made on this statement- as is repeatedly stated on cc including on this thread, just having the qualifications to be admitted to a top school doesn’t mean you will actually be admitted to one - in the world of single digit acceptance rates, there can be no guarantees.
“…suggesting that a high school should work to match the student’s academic level to the college and that therefore, Sidwell was acting in the student’s best interests on the first go-around.”
Speaking for myself, I’d prefer a neutral position re this SF case, til we know more. Not assuming the school is likely at fault because, after all, maybe, or I think, some teacher or admin may not be supportive. Too speculative. And in a discussion based on no evidence, serves no purpose I can see. If you mind others dissing the kid, you should understand how others can mind auto-dissing the school.
Nor are these preps directly preparing specific kids for college x or y. Or parents paying 42k because little Johnny will get into a tippy top. It’s a high school, first. The bar is higher, but not all will reach the top echelon.
So, basically, folks are saying that Sidwell isn’t any better academically than a higher performing public school? If that’s the case, then why pay $42,000/year when your child can get an equivalent education at a public school in Fairfax or Montgomery Counties?
Am having flashbacks of the “hobnob with snobs” thread of years gone by…
Where did we say, “Sidwell isn’t any better academically than a higher performing public school?” It will be, in some respects and not others.
Absolutely, one can get a superb education on Montgomery Co or N Va. But those hs’s raison d’etre is also not HYPSabc…
The measure of one’s hs education isn’t who sends admit letters.
Off-topic to the thread. That question has been asked many times on this site so one can search those threads.
Sidwell and other selective HSs don’t just admit any average kid who pays $42k/yr. Sidwell admission involves elements similar to selective college admissions, as summarized below. It’s informally reported that Sidwell’s upper school admit rate is similar to many highly selective private college. GDS (a lower than Sidwell ranked private HS in same area) more formally reports an admit rate of ~10%. Few Sidwell kids are average, compared to national standards, which is one of the key reasons why kids at selective private HSs as a whole tend to do well in college admissions.
-Teacher recommendations
-Test results (SSAT, ISEE, WISC, WPPSI)
-Transcripts from current and previous school year
-Parent statement
-Applicant questionnaire
I wouldn’t assume Sidwell usually provides a notable advantage in college admissions compared to quality public HSs in the area. However, that doesn’t mean that Sidwell isn’t better academically. Small class sizes, opportunity to take more advanced courses, superior teaching, and similar really can make a difference in how well the kids learn HS material, how prepared they are for college, and their general enjoyment, regardless of influence on college admissions.
I suspect most of us who had kids in private hs had testing and relevant applications. That factor isn’t what makes a particular private a top school.
But Dayo attended since a wee kid.
Selectivity in admissions is certainly not the only factor, but it’s still a highly relevant one for most measures of what makes a “top school.” However, the statement was, “Few Sidwell kids are average, compared to national standards, which is one of the key reasons why kids at selective private HSs as a whole tend to do well in college admissions.” If all the would be Sidwell 9th graders transferred to public HSs, I’d expect the would be Sidwell kids as whole would still do well in college admissions – both hooked and unhooked kids. Similarly, if Sidwell switched admission to a purely random lottery and had low enough cost/FA for anyone to attend, I’d expect the rate of admission to highly selective colleges would dramatically drop, as would Sidwell’s average test scores and their ranking in external lists of top schools, such as USNWR HS rankings.
I don’t understand why many keep comparing Dayo to all the other students in her class at SF and other top students in general for top school acceptance… Shouldn’t she be compared only to other URM’s?
Which would be a much much smaller applicant pool. Yes? No?
I am also now wondering about the data on the percentage of top URM students from top private schools getting into top universities…? Is there any data on this?
I am just guessing that a top URM from a top private school would have a decent chance of being accepted into a top college. I think that was maybe the mindset of her family rather than an overall applicant pool to top schools.
Compared by whom? Sidwell? Princeton?
Regardless, colleges are free, unless state law says otherwise, to evaluate applicants as they see fit. Dayo is URM, but she also attended a well-regarded (and expensive) private school and her father is a physician. It’s not like she’s a disadvantaged URM.
Compared by Princeton or Penn in the admissions process.
I maybe completely wrong, but somewhere I heard or read that specific Adcoms are assigned to read URM applications and then it goes to group consensus process. So in effect, at least initially, an URM is in a different pool. Yes? No?