Student-School "Fit" as criteria in choosing a college

Parents Forum
21

<p>In my limited experience, State schools offer less money then private schools. Both of my kids got into in-state and oos State colleges and were not offered anything. With the same stats they were offered merit and finaid at private colleges. And of course, it's a matter of fit. I was under the impression that the op's student wanted to attend an LAC but thinks that the cost is too high but wants to go to there, I did not think he said anything about if it was worth it to look at oos publics. Read the opening post again. </p>

<p>I am somewhat familiar with PSU and my daughter was accepted there but she chose to attend an out of state private for just a few thousand more a year. We were both excited by the spirit on the campus, she has several friends at the honors college and even spent the night at the honors college awhile ago. There is a HUGE difference between a big State U and a private college like the op is speaking of, I don't care how much you cut it down into a manageable size like the Schreyers college. I am not trying to argue that PSU or UMD are not great colleges, just that I don't think that's what the op is asking for help with.</p>

22

<p>Wow - Have just read through these posts (and will undoubtedly read through them several times more). Thank you all for your input. The school in question is a nice fit in many ways - nice size, small classes, great course selection, location, access to public transportation, not to mention the more vague "atmosphere." He feels comfortable there. We would love to see him attend just as much as he would. It is probably considered a slight reach. His grades and scores look OK, but we are from an "over-represented" area (Long Island, NY), and for some reason our high school has not had much luck with acceptances there, so ED would help. And yes, we probably would second-guess later on if we didn't give him the best shot at admissions time. If he got rejected, we'd deal with the disappointment, and dive in to those other options.
Sounds obvious, but I realize that what we most need to do at this point is sit down and look very carefully (more carefully) at our finances -- college, retirement, etc (H. is self-employed). Youngest is 8, so can only imagine what tuition will run in 2016. I should also note that H. is of mind that we can do this. I think what is missing is the in-depth look that will tell us if it is really so, so I can stop festering about it . Guess this is why people go to financial advisers. Thanks again, everyone.</p>

23

<p>SInce the OP isn't expecting financial aid until her second child starts college, I don't see the problem in applying ED. Could her son's first choice school be Cornell? Their ED group has a distinct advantage in admit rates, and an ED acceptance (anywhere) makes life easier for most seniors and their parents. </p>

<p>On the topic of "good fit" schools, I think you have touched on some elements that indicate that the ED school is the right choice. The student described sounds like he would succeed in a challenging environment, and for top level kids this is one of the most important things, a feeling of finally belonging. </p>

<p>With my oldest son, the intellectual challenge was crucial; he went through the course listings and plotted his major based on the accelerated classes. Of course, there are many smart, talented students at state schools, but they are the frosting and not the cake.</p>

24

<p>
[quote]
I was under the impression that the op's student wanted to attend an LAC but thinks that the cost is too high but wants to go to there, I did not think he said anything about if it was worth it to look at oos publics. Read the opening post again.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I went back and reread the opening post. I see "private university," not LAC. The idea of an oos public instead of SUNY was introduced later, hinging on the idea that some publics do provide merit money and might be an alternative. The question of whether applying ED and possibly getting an admissions edge trumps applying RD (thereby getting more FA info before committing) seems to be the main issue. Otherwise, the OP's S could simply apply RD (and EA where allowed) to a number of schools and wait to see what happened.</p>

25

<p>Hi ISP- Long Island mom here- We too were in a similar situation. D # 1 was very good student. She did apply to some SUNY's but it was for safety purposes only. We really did think she would be benefit from being in a more challenging academic environment. We sort of lucked out as she did get into Cornell ILR program. For NYS residents the tuition at Cornell for ILR-CALS (Ag. school) and Human Ec. is around $18,000 which is a virtual bargain. Other schools which were generous with merit aid was the Univ. of Rochester. In the past, they often awarded high achieving NYS kids a merit award of around $10,000. (I think U of R has alot to offer so you might want to check it out). Again that was about 3 years ago, so I do not know if they are as generous as they once were.<br>
Only you can decide how much you can pay for college. As you have other kids, your decision affects them too. I can tell you that d # 2's friend applied ED to Syracuse. She was not awarded an acceptable financial aid package. She is now taking the semester off and will be attending SUNY Binghamton this spring. She never made it to Syracuse afterall.
If finances is an issue, I would hesitate applying ED-- IMO I would go through the regular application process and hope that financial aid is being offered from some of the schools. As others have said, there are alot of great schools out there where you do not have to shell out 40K a year.<br>
U Md---U delaware and a bunch others come to mind. Good luck</p>

26

<p>one thing to keep in mind is that financial considerations create a very different picture for individual students. You should do some careful investigation before you decide on the ED route. In our case, we did not qualify for FA so we researched schools that give merit aid. We have money saved but not 200K! On these boards, you'll find many examples of those who DO qualify for financial aid, making private schools even less expensive than your state U. For us, even with merit aid offers from privates, the state U option was MUCH cheaper since our son got scholarships there too - making the tuition almost free. And after visiting our son actually liked the school and saw it as a good fit. That's when it becomes hard (at least for us) to justify spending 150K more for a good but not great private. ED takes away this ability to compare offers.<br>
Regarding OOS publics, I still think they're worth a look since many students don't want SUNY as their safety. A student with the scholarships my son received would be paying around 11/12K per year for tuition at PSU - not bad.</p>

27

<p>there are more that 3000 of 4 year schools, I am sure with some investigantion your child might find several more schools that would be good fit for him.
Another aspect to think about- what seems good now might not look so good later-what my D started with and ended with during this long year of application process are two opposite issues. She started from wanting to go across the country to big university and ended up at same state small private LAC. Even during the overnight visits her values continued to change- what seems most important before suddenly become only optional,etc.
Financial aspect is the difficult one. Getting yourself into shaky financial situation is not an option if you have other kids to consider. Yes, we all want what best for our kids but the thing is-that best can come in many forms and shapes.
Wholeheartedly agree with preovious posters- have financial doubts? Do not go ED.
BTW hiring finaid councelor is not that expensive and you could get much more accurate picture of various scenarios.</p>

28

<p>LSf, When you and your husband do your financial calculations, look VERY closely at what is included in the College's estimate of the cost to attend. I have noticed that some colleges leave out elements or under-estimate elements that can add up quickly. For example, factor in the cost of buying him a new laptop, the cost of all the "dorm essentials" he'll need freshman year (it really adds up!), costs of travel from your house to school and back times number of times he is likely to want to come home, costs of extras such as equipment or extra fees in his major, etc. Be sure to also ask the college about how much costs have increased each year over the past five years, and assume that similar increases will occur during your son's time there. In short, assume that the "cost of attendance" number given by the college will actually be HIGHER. Then, really look at all the other factors.</p>

<p>Like LindaLanna's daughter, at this point last year my daughter was absolutely 100% convinced that she would be applying Early Decision to a particular school. She changed her mind in October, applied Early Action elsewhere, and never even ended up applying to the "first choice" she'd been so sure was the "only" school for her in September. She is now very, very happy at a school that wasn't all that much on her radar at this time last year and it is hard now to even picture her at the other "perfect" school from Last September. Students do change their minds and desires, so expect changes, especially as your son starts hearing friends at school talk about other options. :)</p>

<p>Still, assuming the finances work out favorably, there isn't a problem with your son applying ED AS LONG AS he truly has looked at and seriously considered other options besides the SUNY system and has decided that this is the ONLY non-SUNY school he prefers. If that is not the case, I agree with others: There are many other options besides the SUNY's to put on the table and consider in case ED falls through. I'd want to make sure I had a game plan that looked at all of the other options in case ED fell through and your son decides in December that he really doesn't want to go to a SUNY.</p>

29

<p>Yes, young students sometimes DO change preferences between application and acceptance. Our son decided he really loved big bustling universities - and five of the eight schools he applied to were small or medium. He was rejected at his top two choices (both big schools) so we were left with only one big school choice - thankfully one he was happy with. ED is a bit risky...</p>

30

<p>If first choice school didn't pan out he'd still lean towards a smaller school or LAC. Small class size is a definite plus for him. There were a couple larger schools I thought were wonderful (that made me wish I was young again and had been a better student!) that he found somewhat overwhelming. As for our own state schools, probably the only one that might fit the bill for him would be Geneseo, which sounds like "the liberal arts SUNY" at this point. H. is not keen on any of them, though.</p>

31

<p>About the ED "boost" - or lack thereof: my daughter is now happily attending an RD applicant to a college that was an extreme reach for her. (Test scores way low for the elites) I have realized from reading back over old posts to the thread about her college that there were many ED applicants with credentials that looked a lot better than hers that were rejected in the ED round. It would have only depressed me to read about their results at the time, so I'm glad I stayed away from that -- but I was pessimistic because I knew that the college takes a large chunk of its students ED. </p>

<p>The point is: my daughter got a fair reading of her application RD. We know that obviously because she got in; if she had been deferred or rejected we might surmise otherwise.... but given the beauty of hindsight, I know that the truth is that her application and every other RD application got a fair read. And then the college had some very difficult choices to make, and probably turned away many objectively more qualified applicants because of the college's view of "fit", in terms of what they want in their student body. </p>

<p>The college looked past her test scores and areas of academic weaknesses, focused on her strengths and whatever it was that they liked about her, and said YES. In the fall I felt kind of badly that I couldn't allow my daughter to take advantage of ED... but in hindsight I realize that the ED boost may be a myth. ED is a time for the college to lock in those applicants that they are absolutely sure they want -- there is absolutely no benefit to a highly selective college to lock in an applicant they are uncertain about. Why take a weak candidate when you know that the bulk of the applications are yet to come?</p>

32

<p>This is a good thread. Let me share our experience with our son, who just started his senior year in H.S., and has just finished the application process.</p>

<p>Son has great grades, excellent ECs and will have really good recs from teachers and counselors. He does not test particularly well, but still got in 93rd percentile on ACT composite, and 99th in English, Writing, Reading. He started off with a list of about a dozen schools that intrigued him. He then did more research and narrowed the list down to a half dozen that he was really interested in. This included 2 public and 4 private. We visited all of them, talked with a bunch of people, read up on the schools, and researched them here. </p>

<p>He ended up applying to 4 schools: 1 public match (ED), 1 private match (EA), 1 private reach (RD) and 1 public safety (RD). Since we do not qualify for need based aid, the $$$ issue was not in play. The public match, in his mind, and ours, was distinctly superior to all of the others in the things he values -- excellent academics, a good music program, a "small college" feel, wide range of EC opportunities, and a breadth of course/major offerings between the humanities and science side. (He is torn between a few different areas of study). </p>

<p>For him, ED was desireable, as he is well qualified for the ED school, and there is value to be placed on having an early decision in the pocket, enabling him to enjoy the balance of his senior year relatively stress-free. For the same reason, he jumped on the application process so that he could have it done while most of his friends are still running around taking the boards, etc. Fit was the pre-eminent factor in the decision making process for us. While the private match and the private reach perhaps have more "name" appeal, his first choice is a great fit and offers a top notch education, together with the breadth of options that we feel are necessary. I see too many kids lock into a field of study at the beginning, only to end up disillusioned or changing, and either being in the wrong place or having to spend extra time in the new field.</p>

<p>This is an art, not a science. Too often the college search is ego driven, which I think is a mistake at the undergraduate level. College needs to be fun, and should be among the best times of one's life. Plenty of time for the grind later on.</p>

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<p>You bring up an interesting point concerning the issue of being locked into a field of study. Our oldest daughter, a senior like your son, has been targeting a career in journalism since she reached her teen years, and has only looked at schools with outstanding journalism programs. Our advice has been that this is fine as lomg as she considers the consequences of her choice if she changes her mind--we also said the same thing to a good friend of hers who is interested in photography. For my daughter, who wants to go the big school route, there is plenty of diversity available. For her friend, who was considering some predominently engineering schools with great photography programs (she won't be an engineer, but rather a social sciences type if photography slips from view), this consideration may materially effect her choice.</p>

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<p>If first choice school didn't pan out he'd still lean towards a smaller school or LAC.>>
Lsp, in your last post (#30), you said the above, which brings me back to my original question: How deeply has he researched alternatives to the school that he is currently thinking of applying ED to? If the answer is, he has pretty much stopped at that particular school and hasn't much considered or investigated other, similar options out there, and would prefer NOT to go to a SUNY if he doesn't get in to the ED school, then my advice holds. I would NOT recommend applying ED if he doesn't already have a firm back up plan in mind besides the SUNYs, and I'd also want to keep my options open in terms of looking at the various financial issues. I'd also want to ask your son if perhaps he is rushing to pick his ED school because he has fears/doubts about the whole application process and perhaps just wants to get the whole process of evaluating options over with. If that is the case, he may be looking at ED for the wrong reasons, especially if he has not found at least several other schools that he likes almost as much as his ED choice.</p>

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<p>We have done a lot of looking this past year. Thoroughly on paper, then visits to the top 8 or 9. S's second and third choices (both LACs) are probably a bit harder to get into than his first choice (and also don't offer merit aid) but he might have a shot. Wish we had a better grasp of his chances. With few (or no) students from our HS getting into these schools in recent years, its hard to tell. He is not keen on the SUNYs for History and Poli Sci, except perhaps Geneseo, which we have yet to visit.
I feel I'm being very cryptic not mentioning all the school names, but think he'd be appalled if I aired too much of his personal business. Is this typical CC protocol? Maybe I'm also afraid it will open up a whole can of beans where people will say we made poor choices (more confusion!). I would be willing to PM, though. In the meantime H. and I will go over finances this week. We found doing the scrap FAFSA far less helpful than hoped. There are just too many other factors related to H's business, our savings, etc, that we need to address. Handling the tuition isn't as simple as "can" or "can't," it's more "should" or "shouldn't." H. says the former, but we have to look a little more in depth than just saying "it'll work out" !</p>

36

<p>Lspf, So it seems that your question is whether or not to take the financial risk of applying ED. </p>

<p>Colleges want kids to apply ED. For LACs especially it helps them lock in the students they need to balance their classes. I think if you sat down with the financial aid officer (either in person or by telephone) and laid your dilemma out you could get some guidance that would help you with this decision. The school is not going to give you an exact figure but what they could give you is an indication of the MINIMUM amount of financial aid you could expect, now and when your second child is in college. The only way you will know the MAXIMUM would be to apply RD to a range of schools including the #1 choice and some that offer merit and then compare and leverage. </p>

<p>I might also suggest that you use the services of the CC's counselors (at a fee) to get a more professional idea of your son's chances at his #1 school. They helped us considerably in understanding what the odds were. (No guarantees, of course.)</p>

<p>It seems to me that you're suffering a lot of angst over this decision (understandably) and it would considerably simplify your lives if you felt more confident about your son getting into one of his top choices in the RD round. If I were in your position (did you say THREE more kids to finance?) I'd ask your son widen his list to include more matches, even if it meant more visiting. Remember, you still have three months to evaluate your options and, as you say, it does seem that there are a lot of variables here. </p>

<p>Good luck and let us know how you do.</p>