Student Venting - Need Some Parent Advice

Parents Forum
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<p>Hello,</p>

<p>I have a long, frustrated, history with the college financial aid process. Specifically, the NCP form of the CSS profile is nearly a daily topic at my house. My father at this current moment stopped paying child support payments but continues to attempt to contact me. I wouldn't qualify for a waiver.
This is where my rant begins:
I have put so much effort into High School to get into a "top" college. I have studied and tested myself into oblivion. My parents (stepdad and mom) have stated and stated again that they will only pay about 1/3 of their EFC. My bio dad is unlikely to pay much of anything (he makes around 80k). I assume colleges will say that together I have practically a 200k house. Woo! No aid for you.
I have tried to tell myself that I shouldn't be mad. There are low income kids that deserve financial aid money far more than I did. My parents can't be expected to pay their EFC; they work hard and should still be able to go on vacations and such. Why should my bio dad pay up to 20k on someone he sees once every two months (well, up until recently. After the child support payments stopped I lost a lot of faith in him).
And yet, I am cycling between anger and depression. I just want colleges to not consider my stepdad (or at least very little) and award me financial aid for my household. If they do factor him, I want my parents to pay their EFC and my bio dad to somehow pay up a huge amount. I want to attend one of the COLLEGES I WORKED SO HARD FOR. The fact that none of this is going to happen makes me intensely sad.
Parents, I need your help. I have asked about the CSS NCP form before and received some great answers. I have attempted to make my college list more diverse in choice. Yet, I can't stop dreaming of the Middleburys and Wesleyans of the world. I think with your perspective as grown adults you can give me some emotional support. Should I harden up? Should I sit down with my parents and demand they pay more (ugh that sounds ungrateful just typing it)? </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>Financial realities can often shift college plans, and it is difficult to deal with the disappointment of realizing that the “dream” school is not affordable or out of reach for whatever reason. I don’t think you can demand your parents to pay more. However, I think you can sit down and show them your options. Explain to them that 1/3 of the EFC won’t be enough for you to go to the schools that you are looking at. At the end of the day, it’s up to them how much they pay.</p>

<p>I would find a couple of schools that you would be happy to go that are in the range that you know your parents will pay. Are there some good publics that fall into the range your parents are willing to pay?</p>

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<p>yeah, I didn’t quite know how to phrase that sitting down with the parents question… thank you for enduring my whining!</p>

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<p>My first reaction when I read this: you have no idea how lucky you are! Consider the kids (a) whose parents REFUSE to give them any answer at all when they ask “how much will you be able to pay for college?” or (b) whose parents say they’ll pay ANYTHING . . . and then clarify (in April!) that “anything” was limited to the cost of the local public.</p>

<p>Since you know ahead of time what your financial constraints are, you can plan accordingly. Find the schools with competitive and merit aid that are a good fit for you - you have lots of options. And consider yourself lucky . . . sure, there are plenty of colleges you can’t afford, but since you know this ahead of time, you don’t have to waste time on them.</p>

<p>And if you want the size and feel of a liberal arts college, look for the state public universities with good merit aid that also have strong honors college programs. At many of them, it’s like being at a small, elite college within a university. You really do have plenty of options - you just have to look for them!</p>

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<p>I do realize that any money is a gift. Just as I stated in my original post, there is a certain part of me that just wants to pout about my situation. Another source of emotional stress is the years and years of screaming and fighting over child support, visitation, and custody that have stretched back since I was three. I thought college would be an escape. I guess you can never get away.
I sound like Charlie Brown.
Also some information:
I added both Princeton and Vanderbilt to my list months ago because they do not require the NCP form.
Also on my list are Kenyon and Grinnell, who offer some merit aid (my ACT score is above middle 50. Fingers crossed
On a previous forum I was also encouraged to apply to my flagship campus - UMASS Amherst is on my list!</p>

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<p>I think Princeton has their OWN NCP form. They don’t use the CSS NCP form, but I think they have their own that they require.</p>

<p>You haven’t mentioned that you’ve applied to a few financial safeties (schools that you know FOR SURE that you have all costs covered). It sounds like you’re so focused on the TOP schools that you haven’t protected yourself in case you’re not accepted or you don’t get enough aid.</p>

<p>What are your stats?</p>

<p>What is your likely major/career goal?</p>

<p>How much (in dollars) will your parents pay each year? </p>

<p>Are you a likely NMF? </p>

<p>I understand that you’re frustrated, but there are MANY TOP STUDENTS who find themselves in similar situations. They end up happily getting their degrees elsewhere. Your undergrad isn’t The Dream…your LIFE is.</p>

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<p>If you go to UMass, you can also take classes at the other 4 small LACs for the instate price, so that’s a good option for you.</p>

<p>Child support is not your fight. It may have stopped because you are 18, or because your father doesn’t make $80k/yr anymore, or because he is a jerk. Not your fight. If your mother says she can’t pay for college because she doesn’t receive it anymore, ask her to find out why or to file for it, but to not involve you because you can’t do anything about an agreement between two adults.</p>

<p>You do need to accept that every child can’t go to the most expensive school, even if she has the grades and scores. Some cars are too expensive even if you are the best driver. Some homes are too expensive even if you deserve granite counter tops and 4 bathrooms.</p>

<p>My daughter turned down Smith and went for the merit money somewhere else because that’s what worked for us. I’m a single parent and there is no father paying child support, and we had to look at the entire financial picture to see which school was best academically and financially.</p>

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<p>*
UMich: Accepted</p>

<p>SAT I (breakdown): Did not submit
ACT: 33 (28M 36R 33S 35E)
SAT II: 750 Bio E 740 Lit 720 US and World
Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 3.7 STRONG UPWARD TREND
Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): Top 10%
AP (place score in parenthesis): 1 in Chem! Euro (5) Lang (5) US History (5) Psych(4) Bio (4)
IB (place score in parenthesis):
Senior Year Course Load: Honors/AP Calc, Honors/AP English Lit, AP Stats, AP US Gov, AP Environmental
Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.): National Merit Commended, AP Scholar with Distinction, National Latin awards </p>

<p>Supplementary Material:
Other
State (if domestic applicant): MA
School Type: Small, uncompetitive public
Ethnicity: Middle Eastern/Irish
Gender: Male
Income Bracket(mention if FA candidate): 100k - 120k not expecting much</p>

<p>Where else were you accepted/waitlisted/rejected: So far, Accepted at Tulane and Fordham. RD stuff in March is going to be rough *</p>

<p>=========================================</p>

<p>You have very good stats. </p>

<p>However, you’re OOS for UMich and as you noted, you won’t likely get much aid. So, this is not a safety for you even though you’re accepted.</p>

<p>Tulane and Fordham are also not safeties for you because you won’t get the aid you need.</p>

<p>Your custodial parents are going to have an EFC of about $35k. It sounds like they’ll pay about $12k…is that right?</p>

<p>I’m going to be blunt with you, so pardon my harshness… :)</p>

<p>Yes, you’ve worked hard and have very good stats. However, both of my kids had higher stats than yours. They attended their state flagship - one had a big NMF scholarship and the other got free tuition plus $4500 per year. We paid very little total for both undergrad educations. </p>

<p>They could have easily cried, “we worked so hard for our grades, we deserve HYPS!” (One was Val, the other was Sal). </p>

<p>They loved their undergrad experience. One graduated nearly 3 years ago and was accepted into every PhD program (all fully funded) he applied to and accepted the fab offer from an elite. The younger son graduated last May and is now in med school (which we’re paying for).</p>

<p>You need to refocus and QUICKLY identify schools that will be affordable for you …otherwise you’re going to be MORE UPSET in the spring when you have acceptances and NO AFFORDABLE schools. Then WHAT???</p>

<p>The deadlines of many BIG SCHOLARSHIP schools have passed…but there are still a few open. My kids’ undergrad would award you full tuition for your stats, but only if you apply very soon…deadline approaching. Your remaining costs would be affordable. </p>

<p>You need to apply to at least a couple of schools that you know FOR SURE will award you at least full tuition, so that your remaining costs will get covered by your parents and maybe a small student loan.</p>

<p>YOU can only borrow the following amounts:</p>

<p>frosh: 5500
soph: 6500
jr: 7500
sr: 7500</p>

<p>so you can’t borrow your way thru…and your parents won’t likely co-sign for more.</p>

<p>I’m also concerned that you might be mistaken and think that you can apply any merit you receive directly to your EFC. NO YOU CAN’T. So, you’ve likely rec’d about a $25k merit award from Tulane. You can’t just subtract that from your EFC. Tulane will subtract that from the top and your parents will be STILL be expected to pay their EFC.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry that your parents decisions have effected your life. I am, and I can relate. My parents divorced, my dad refused to fill out forms or pay, my mom hadn’t covered college in the divorce only a hefty lifetime alimony (yes, 30yrs later he’s STILL paying!), but he’d paid OOS for my brother to go to school, and my mom had no money. It was unfair, I was angry. I worked full time, paid rent and living expenses, and went to school at night at the local 4yr university. Nothing fair, equitable, fun, about it. No time to meet other students, join groups, figure out who I was and what I wanted…I had bills.</p>

<p>Fast forward 30yrs and I have three kids of my own I’m trying like crazy to offer a residential college experience I didn’t have. They, like you, have worked terribly hard and deserve any school they’re accepted to. Here’s the thing, we (the married parents) can’t afford our EFC. You plan, you save, you do your best, life happens, and you adjust. I have been unable to work for health reasons. That’s a huge chunk of income we’d counted on for college savings, plus medical expenses. There are no vacations. I’m not complaining, I’m giving you perspective. We are able to pay instate tuition. Our kids didn’t have the option of the expensive privates that didn’t offer merit. They are not alone, you are not alone. It’s not ideal, we’d like to offer our kids the world but really, one is attending a public school and another accepted ED next year. Both had the option of OOS and private merit. So do you if your stats are competitive for top LACs. </p>

<p>I’m sorry you’re frustrated and disappointed. I do think you need to step back and realize that there are a lot of options available to you and many, many kids have to make choices based on budgets.</p>

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<p>Leicester, I remember you from July.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1528418-am-i-right-mad-my-parents-over-finances.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1528418-am-i-right-mad-my-parents-over-finances.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You are in the group of students in the category: “My parents can but won’t pay”. This group of students has the smallest chance of attending a top private college. Yes you are hosed. I’m sorry about this, but this was and is your reality. To go anywhere beyond what your parents will pay, you need merit aid. Back in July people, including myself, suggested a whole host of schools that would cost around the same as UMASS, and a whole bunch of schools could have given you merit aid to attend that might have been preferable for you. Back then you said that your parents restricted you to 3 hours from home (which I recall was in central MA). That was unreasonable then. However, since then you’ve applied to Michigan and Tulane. Michigan only wants OOS students who can subsidize their own students. That his not you. You shouldn’t have applied there. </p>

<p>IMHO, you’ve applied to wholly unrealistic set of schools besides UMASS, and may now have missed many of the deadlines for fabulous merit scholarships. Is UMASS acceptable to you? If so, do your best there, and try to enjoy it. You’ll have many like-minded peers in Commonwealth Honors College. </p>

<p>If you’d prefer a different kind of environment, get a grip on reality and figure out how to optimize your situation under your constraints. Today is December 26th. It may not be too late, but there are certainly fewer choices. Mom2collegekids, is it too late for Alabama or Pittsburgh?</p>

<p>If you just want support, you have it. I sympathize. I think you are justified in being angry and bitter. You’ve worked hard and deserve better.</p>

<p>However, If you want actual help in optimizing your situation, let us know. I’d be happy to contribute suggestions, and so would many others. </p>

<p>Do you have an actual figure on how much actual annual cash that your parents can pay?</p>

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<p>Umass/Amherst is an excellent school. With your stats and GPA, I would think you’d qualify for the honors college which has the benefit of all that UMass offers but with smaller classes, a dorm for honors students, etc. </p>

<p>One of the biggest advantages of UMass is the Five College Consortium which means you can take classes at any of the five colleges in the Amherst/Northampton/Holyoke area - Amherst College, Smith, Hampshire, and Mt. Holyoke. Between the five, you pretty much have any discipline you might be interested in studying. The bus service between the five schools makes it easy to attend classes and of course, you’d be in Amherst which IMHO is one of the best college towns in the country. It’s such a vibrant place. My older son is a student at Hampshire and loves everything about the area.</p>

<p>Good luck to you - let us know where you end up.</p>

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<p>My daughter is a top 1% high SAT kid and guess what? She is only permitted to apply to in-state schools and schools where she qualifies for merit. We will not qualify for FA ( maybe we will at Princeton and Harvard, but of course you have to get in first) and we can’t afford to write out checks for $50,000+ a year. This is reality for many kids, unfortunately. My daughter would love to apply to Cornell but I will not let her apply because if she gets in I can’t pay unless we take out loans. She knows what we can afford to pay and if she wants a school that costs more, she will need merit. It does break my heart that I probably can’t send her to certain schools, but then I snap back into reality and tell myself that there are plenty of excellent schools that I can afford and who would love to have her. There are many many smart high stats kids who do not qualify for FA and do not have parents who will write out checks for $50,000 a year. UMass Amherst is a fine school that will get you where you want to go.</p>

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<p>Mom2collegekids, is it too late for Alabama or Pittsburgh?</p>

<p>Alabama extended its scholarship deadline to Jan 6th because of the bad weather and delayed Dec SAT issue. The apps are easy…no essays, no LORs…takes like 5 minutes. The scholarship app is also quick and easy. Acceptance and awards are by stats. This student would get free tuition. The student would get more if he’s an eng’g or comp sci major. </p>

<p>I agree that the student’s current app list was poorly-advised considering what his family will pay. I suspect that the student wrongly thought that he could get FA for “need” and apply merit to EFC. That’s not true. Or…the student wrongly thinks he can borrow his way thru. No…not without qualified and willing co-signers…which I doubt his parents will do.</p>

<p>Many, many kids find themselves in this student’s situation. Many families just can’t/won’t pay their EFCs…oftentimes for legitimate reasons. </p>

<p>In your case, your stepdad may not feel that its his place to be funding so much since your bio dad should be contributing. If your mom’s income is 1/3 of your family’s income, then maybe that’s why they’ve come up with that figure. </p>

<p>Don’t be stubborn and end up with no affordable schools. A handful of acceptances that won’t work will just send you further into a depressed state.</p>

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<p>Seems like a no brainer. At least give yourself something to compare to UMASS. </p>

<p>The deadline hasn’t passed for University of Kentucky either. Pitt might still be available, but they have been giving money out already. </p>

<p>Those are just the well known full-tuition offers.</p>

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<p>My advice, which is probably not what you want to hear, is to adjust your thinking. View college as a means to an end rather than an end to itself. Don’t make the college you attend your “dream” - use college to get where you want to be. You can have a great experience at a non-prestigious, affordable school.</p>

<p>My D, who had stats that were a little better than yours, is at the same school that Mom2collegekids’ sons attended. She’s OOS but has generous scholarships so we don’t pay a lot. She’s very happy with the experience she’s having and the education she’s getting. The difference between you and her may just be that she didn’t care about or apply to prestigious schools, which allows her to be more open to how great what she’s experiencing now really is. So if you change your thinking a bit, and approach the affordable schools with an open mind, you may be pleasantly surprised. I think the honors college at a large state school can provide a different experience than you might expect, and at any state flagship you will find plenty of brilliant kids, many with stats better than yours. There will be like-minded people! At the end of the day, my D will get a great education and I don’t think her undergrad school will hold her back at all in finding a job or being admitted to grad school. And really, that’s the goal more than a particular college admittance. Likewise, there are a lot of really nice schools out there that offer generous merit aid for students with your stats, so it’s not as if you’re limited to your state flagship. You need to quickly identify some affordable choices and get those applications in ASAP. And forget about sitting down with your parents and demanding that they pay more. That boat has sailed - you just need to deal with the hand you’ve been dealt, whether it’s fair or not.</p>

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<p>So some info since July: my parents have kind of laid off the restriction requirements in terms of geography. So I do now have more options.
I did forget to mention safties! I applied to UCONN and UMASS Lowell as well. Also i’ve done some seperare merit scholarships at large universities (but the chances of those are so unrealistic). Back in July the main issue with my EFC was that my parents could pay it. They could pay more if they want to. Yet the don’t want to. I have no control over that anyway, and they have worked hard for everything they have (both came from poverty). They also see taking out loans for school as a maturity process. I looked into Alabama back in July. I will look again!
I just want to thank every parent on this forum again. You guys have even loomed at my previous posts to help and spend so much of your own time trying to help. I really am so lucky to have such a resource.</p>

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<p>Oh also I don’t want to pretend my stats are anything extraordinary. They aren’t. For me I had to work for them and that is my perfection.</p>

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<p>* I looked into Alabama back in July. I will look again! *</p>

<p>Look again and get those apps in. Seriously. Have a free tuition award in your back pocket. You’d also qualify for the Honors College and the Honors dorms. </p>

<p>What is your major and career goal?</p>

<p>You do have very good stats…didn’t mean to suggest otherwise. My point was that many kids with similar stats do very well without going to elites for undergrad.</p>

<p>I applied to UCONN</p>

<p>How is UConn a safety? What is your ASSURED aid? What are your remaining costs???</p>

<p>Don’t rely on substantial loans for college. Those can be a huge burden.</p>

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<p>I am leaning towards econ. I would like to do economic advising through the US Gov to developing countries. Really though I would love to do anything for the state department.
Latest parent figure is around 12000. They will also pay for books and computer. Will pay for long distances transportation “if I get a good package”. Yes this is as specific as they have got with me.</p>

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<p>More info: my brother has 80000 in loans coming out of a small regional college with an accounting degree. My parents don’t view this as a burden (they signed on for the loans). They seem less likely to sign with me. I really do want to avoid that much in loans.
I dont need to go to a top college. I guess its just that every other other person, guidance counselors, family, friends, have just pushed it on me since the very start and I must have let it get to me.</p>