<p>Here's a blog entry I thought might be interesting to some:</p>
<p>Thanks for posting that, unalove. It was an interesting article. I was particularly struck by one grad student's comment:</p>
<p>"President Zimmer responded that quite simply, U of C has historically not had a culture of togetherness and unity under the university banner. While the school has come a long way, it still has a long way to go in terms of fostering an environment that creates and inspires attachment to the university. One of the problems noted was that students dont feel that they are part of a community. Another undergrad responded that the discordant plurality of voices was a unique aspect of the university. Another expressed that she liked that there was no unifying pride and felt that the high level of academic rigor here has no need for a nostalgic community."</p>
<p>Given the love for the school I've seen on this board, I was surprised to read that. I guess there is no alumni network like a few of the schools I've read about here on CC, but from posts on the threads here I've felt like the majority of current students feel they are part of a community.</p>
<p>Oh great, he's getting even more ridiculous. But at least this time it's appealing to the masses! Most of the expressed student voices I empathize with -- but more and more, and I've said this again and again, it seems like Zimmer is turning Chicago into a Harvard wannabe!</p>
<p>Here's the Maroon coverage of the story:</p>
<p>Chicago</a> Maroon | Zimmer pressed with students? concerns</p>
<p>2blue--</p>
<p>I actually chuckled to myself when I read that paragraph for the first time, and I thought to myself, "Oh, that's so UChicago." Though I don't want to put words in students' mouths, my feeling (and my general feeling when I look at those around me) is that students do really love this school, but they do not love it in a mushy, cuddly, sentimental way but rather in a reasoned, calculated, rational way.</p>
<p>When students do choose the U of C, they are consciously choosing a school that will give them an education they are looking for, not a kind of school that will offer big-time sports and name recognition (outside of a small band of economics professors, maybe). I'm assuming that most U of C admits are credentialed for more sentimental schools like Notre Dame and UCLA, which have more name recognition plus sports teams to boot, and I assume that if community and spirit and alumni pride were of utmost importance to the student, he or she would not choose Chicago in the first place.</p>
<p>[Okay, I love it in a mushy way].</p>
<p>A big Rah, Rah! spirit isn't part of the school selection requirements here, but I do know my son, if accepted, is looking for a sense of community within the larger school whether that be within his house, or with fellow students he gets to know in a class he really likes.</p>
<p>I definitely think he will find that-- while we don't have a kind of "We are Chicago" overarching theme, what you will find is a strong sense of place in the house system, in classes, and in extracurriculars. I don't consider myself a particularly social or extroverted person, but just from doing what I do I've met a lot of people here, and I can't walk across the quads without saying hi to five or six people. That to me feels like community.</p>
<p>My first-year clearly feels a sense of community. It's a slow burn, organic, informal connection that feels really comfortable.</p>
<p>Perfect. Absolutely perfect.</p>
<p>Thanks, guys.</p>
<p>I, too, was a little confused reading the comments in the blog, so I'm glad people have discussed it. My experience -- through my children, their friends whom I have met, and alumni I know of various vintages from the 50s through a few years ago -- is that Chicago students are intensely engaged with the university. They are very proud of the education they receive(d) there, and very proud of the university community and its values. </p>
<p>I've never heard anything that sounds remotely like "All I want is the t-shirt that says 'Harder than Harvard or MIT'." I'm sure there are students there with a chip on their shoulders about other schools, but I've never met one. (Sometimes you see comments with that tone in posts here, but not very often.) When I have heard students and alumni talk about other colleges, the theme has always been, "I'm surprised at the low level of intellectual discourse there. I'm so glad I'm at a place where people aren't ashamed to talk intelligently about things. Sure, sometimes I wish some of them would tone it down a bit, but I would never want to be somewhere else." And they react like angry wasps whenever they suspect that the administration is doing anything to dilute the college's intellectual character. When the name Harvard is mentioned, it's usually as a metonym for what students don't want the college to become (like "Californication" in urban planning circles).</p>
<p>It's probably true that, historically, Chicago has attracted and/or enrolled more "non-joiners" than some of its peer institutions, and that makes its community institutions, student and alumni, somewhat more rickety. In addition, it has clearly given more weight in recruiting and admissions to people who are likely to become professors than to people who are likely to become entrepreneurs or national politicians, with a predictable effect on the perceived value of its alumni network and endowment. (Also, more subtly, perhaps a higher proportion of its graduates feel strong loyalty to their graduate institutions than is the case at its peers.) Long-term, that has proven to be a weakness for the university, and it clearly needs to tweak its settings somewhat in the interest of maintaining its vitality. I sympathize with the administration as it tries to do that without compromising the special character of the college among similar institutions.</p>
<p>Well put, JHS.</p>
<p>I think that it's important to point out that while other elite schools have superb academic and research resources, they are more invested in cultivating tomorrow's wealthy alumni. Part of getting Mr. Moneybags to open his wallet is to give him (or her) exactly what he or she wants in the four years between the ages of 18-22. I think this sort of struggle between maintaining donor and investor relationships by creating the "happy" image and maintaining the "elite" rigorous/academic image accounts for the variety of reports from other elite schools in terms of the overall experience. Give me almost any non-Chicago elite college, and I'll be able to tell you friends I have who are working themselves to the bone and taking advantage of every academic opportunity and I'll also be able to tell you about friends who haven't lifted a finger and haven't had their GPA suffer at all.</p>
<p>At Chicago, the rigorous academic experience is much more standardized-- everybody goes through it, no matter if you're a Human Development major or a Near Eastern Languages and Civ major. Sure, some students are more invested in their academic success than others-- but it seems to me that Chicago clearly values quality and rigor of education over cultivating lifelong donors who reminisce about lots of parties and football games.</p>
<p>I dont really think there is a lack of tradition or sentimentality vis-à-vis its peer schools. Stanford limitedly in Silicon Valley, Dartmouth because its off in the woods, undergraduate intensive atmosphere, and Duke via the sports scene come to mind, but not so much so that I could imagine these perks rationally being a make or break for a student to attend over other factors. Meanwhile, there are schools were the atmosphere is the major selling point over other comparable institutions, Notre Dame and Georgetown being the most prominent in my book.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I believe the administration falsely links school spirit to alumni donations, and consequently has made some poor decisions in an attempt to foster it. By creating Max-Pavelsky as a effectively first year dorm, it has engendered an environment when first years can develop a really skewed perception of what it takes to succeed at the school (e.g. half my building is going to bar night, therefore, I can go to bar night despite having a quiz tomorrow at 9 AM it will work out). </p>
<p>Simply put, alumni donations have a very high correlation with the fields you send your alumni into, and the U of C will always be at a deficit in this respect given how many individuals choose non-high white collar careers. Meanwhile, the successful expansion of the programs at the GSB have been a far more effective cash flow generating mechanism, and one that does not really have any impact on the schools character given the MBA program is like any other schools.</p>
<p>continued...</p>
<p>UChicagoalum-- housing has lifted the Max P freshman quota. I know that Max P, when it was initially built, was intended to keep the young, innocent firstlings away from the "miserable" rest of the school. I don't think that's true any longer ( that Max P is happier than the rest of campus), nor do I think that Max P is necessarily "party central"-- I think Pierce tends to be noisier, and students in Shoreland can throw bigger parties. Also, maybe you've never been to Hitchcock House's anti-Bar Night... that it's traditionally thrown by upperclassmen refutes the idea that the more time you spend here, the more work and less play you'll be doing.</p>
<p>I've found a really good balance of work and play for myself here. I'm happy with my rigorous education and the feedback I get from higher-ups, I'm happy with my friends, my job, etc., and though I do work pretty hard, I still have time to do lots of other things. Sometimes that "other thing" includes imbibing on a Wednesday night.</p>
<p>Personally, I think Chicago will see an enormous benefit in overall student experience as well as perception of the school once it develops its non-academic infrastructural aspects further. There's already been a lot of work in this aspect-- everything from an increase in college-sponsored student events to the plan for the Logan Arts Center. CAPS (Career Planning) is an incredible resource, and I disagree completely with students who complained about it at the dinner (I can only compare CAPS's service to me to the career services at my brother's more "careerist" alma mater, and CAPS is a clear, clear victor).</p>
<p>What do I think needs to happen to make the U of C a better school for its students?</p>
<p>1) More student-oriented retail and nightlife in Hyde Park. (A big and controversial issue).
2) More student/professor events outside of the classroom and office hours-- more events like the Aims of Education colloquia and faculty roundtables. (There are more department-wide events than there are school-wide events).
3) A modified approach to grades and the grading system. (I, personally, would be happy if Chicago adopted a system like Reed, where grades are given but they are not visible unless you want them to be).
4) More open communication and emphasis on parties. (It's pretty decent as is, but it could be better).
5) More encouraged study abroad options.
6) More encouraged interaction with the other neighborhoods of the city. (Both the hip and the not-so-hip).</p>
<p>None of these issues are super-important to me, but I do think that implementing some of them might make the U of C more flexible and more appealing to the type of person this school appeals to.</p>
<p>DS likes that so many UChciago folks are not pre-professional. I read on one of the kinks that's been posted (maybe it was O'Neill, I'm not sure off the top of my head), but the person talked about what percentage of Chicago grads from different departments go on to various careers. When I told DS that 14% of math grads become professors, he was thrilled. He longs to be a poor grad student. (I'm happy to indulge him in this one, since he <em>will</em> be poor in grad school if we wind up paying full freight...)</p>
<p>14% become professors? are you sure that's not 14% become PhD's?</p>
<p>I think that the school has a few lives to it. If you step in one direction, you'll find doctors, lawyers, and businessmen (oh my!). But if you step in another, you'll find future professors and assorted nogoodniks whose destiny it is to be in grad school forever and ever.</p>
<p>And then you'll find people like me, who, upon graduation, plan on entering a career field that is neither remunerative nor prestigious.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Simply put, alumni donations have a very high correlation with the fields you send your alumni into
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That doesn't make any sense. The size of alumni donations may have a very high correlation with the fields you send your alumni into, but the percent of alumni donating should not have a high correlation with the fields you send your alumni into. Numbers for illustration: ~66% of Princeton's alumni donate; ~33% of UChicago's alumni donate.</p>
<p>P.S. Also your use of the word correlation is not exactly incorrect, but for what you are trying to say, it almost certainly is. I am guessing you are trying to imply causation of some sort.</p>
<p>
[quote]
housing has lifted the Max P freshman quota.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No they haven't. Max P was supposed to be an (almost) all freshman dorm, but they have changed it to a good mix now.</p>
<p>
[quote]
CAPS (Career Planning) is an incredible resource
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I hope this is a joke. A recent example of CAPS horrible influence over students' futures: Everybody (myself included) who got 1st round interviews with Bain & BCG (2 of the 3 top consulting firms in the world) did not get a 1st round interview with L.E.K. Consulting (ranked ~#25 for consulting). Thank god they don't assign bulge bracket 1st round interviews. I know you may have had some experience with CAPS, but until 3rd year you really don't interact with them much, so I wouldn't try to make comments off of such paltry information, unalove, at the risk that you give people incorrect information.</p>
<p>
[quote]
3) A modified approach to grades and the grading system. (I, personally, would be happy if Chicago adopted a system like Reed, where grades are given but they are not visible unless you want them to be).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I completely agree that the grading system should be revamped. Grade deflation should be instituted to drop the avg. GPA to at least 3.0 (or lower), and most importantly: a detailed grade distribution should be made public.</p>
<p>
[quote]
4) More open communication and emphasis on parties. (It's pretty decent as is, but it could be better).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Have you ever been to any other ("normal") school for a party? You would realize that the University (and the UCPD--the University's police arm) have an amazingly lax policy towards alcohol use, and parties in general.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Grade deflation should be instituted to drop the avg. GPA to at least 3.0 (or lower),
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No thanks.</p>
<p>Cesare--</p>
<p>1) If a drop to a 3.0 average accompanied a clear-cut grade distribution, I think that's totally cool. Then a B might mean something (that you're exactly at midpoint in the class). I don't think that the outside world would catch on, though. I also have issues with a totem pole grading scale as is... my friend's mother and a handful of professors from her department got together and all graded the same essay. Their assigned grades ran from a C+ to an A-.</p>
<p>2) I'm confused as to why it's CAPS's fault that you got an interview with a firm you were interested in and not with another. Are you suggesting that CAPS isn't doing enough to hobnob with various finance firms and talk up Chicago undergrads, or not doing things that other schools are? Finance is the last place you'll find me, and I have to be honest that I have complete ignorance as to how that whole situation works.</p>
<p>I've used CAPS for resume-writing and career counseling/exploration workshops. They give practice interviews, have all sorts of special-interest events, and I think do a lot to connect to students and make sure they think about options that will make them happy. CAPS people have given me great ideas about where my interests may lead me and what to do next.</p>
<p>3) I'm aware that UCPD and housing are lax in comparison to other schools, but I wish that parties generated more on-campus excitement. Frat parties are "lame," apartment parties are "boring," etc. It's not the party itself that varies, but the attitude towards it. A little more "Let's all have a good time together and knock back a few" campus-wide opportunities (or just "let's have a good time together" events) would not be a bad thing IMO.</p>