Studio training contiuum: Conservatory? not? and everything in between

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

<p>What makes a theatre program a conservatory? I’ve seen it proposed in this forum that to be considered a conservatory or at least conservatory-like, you would expect about 75% - 85% of the coursework to be “in studio”. Does this sound about right or is there a better definition?</p>

<p>There is ample discussion in this forum about schools that are considered “true conservatories” vs. those that are “conservatory-like” and also schools that offer drama degrees (BFA or BA) but are considered neither. It dawned on me that as often as I’ve heard others offer opinions on my daughter’s school (NYU Tisch) many which suggest it is not really a conservatory-like program though it claims to be, I’ve never seen anyone actually compile the data on NYU or any of the schools that are often discussed here which is what I hope this tread turns into.</p>

<p>So I decided to do my own math for my first time ever on NYU since I’ve got my daughter’s actual schedule in front of me as well as that from her two previous semesters. Is anyone else willing and able to break down the actual data on their school? I think it would be helpful to prospects as well as possibly illuminating to others who have opinions that perhaps could be bolstered or changed by actual data. </p>

<p>BFA Drama at NYU Tisch:
Total credits needed to graduate with BFA Drama degree: 128
Total credits required to be earned in Studio: 76* up to 96 or more if electives are taken in studio classes (see below)
Total required elective credits that could also earned in studio classes: 20
Total credits required outside of studio in other liberal arts areas: 32 (this includes classes like theatre studies, theatre production, History of the American Musical, writing the essay AKA freshman English, humanities, math/science classes etc.)</p>

<p>Sample weekly class time hours distribution: (calculated from daughter’s actual schedule second semester her freshman year)
Studio: 19:30
Other including theatre studies, theatre production and freshman English: 5
Total time in class: 24:30
% time in studio classes: 79%</p>

<p>Notes: NYU’s program offers flexibility to make it more or less studio intensive. For example the 20 elective credits can be earned in studio training or not. Some opt to use those credits elsewhere for minors or double majors. There is also 16 additional credits above the 128 required to graduate which are paid for with your tuition (max 18 credits/semester x 2 x years = 144 credits). In short, NYU Tisch’s BFA Drama program runs the gamut including if desired a course load that is similar to what can be found in most conservatories if you choose to structure it that way.</p>

<p>Anyone else with actual data care to contribute? I’d love to see it as I’m sure would others.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>This is wonderful! Thank you for doing this. I would love for someone to do this for Emerson and Fordham as well. On the surface things can be deceiving unless you speak with someone who has direct knowledge of each program. Thanks Halflokum!</p>

3

<p>Not sure if this is what you’re looking for, but: at Otterbein, the BFA acting program involves 16-17 credits per semester, 4 of which–one class–are outside the department. Everything else is within the program. So my son, a freshman, is taking fundamentals of theater, an acting/movement/voice/speech class, basic dance, a voice class, stage make-up, and a single-credit “theater participation” course (i.e., crew). He also has an interdisciplinary academic seminar that focuses on reading and analytical writing. And until spring of senior year, when all seniors do an internship in a NY or LA casting office, that’s pretty much the arrangement. They take a slightly heavier courseload as juniors, but there’s still only one non-theater course.</p>

<p>In comparison: my daughter earned a BA in theater at Kenyon, and she had pretty much the standard-issue liberal arts arrangement; 25-30% of her classes were in the major. She was able to fulfill a minor in religious studies, as well as Kenyon’s distribution requirements in social science, natural science, math, etc., and studied foreign language beyond the requirements. She could participate in orchestra and choir for credit as well. Among her theater credits were an independent study in set design and a senior capstone thesis (required of all seniors there). So the course load wasn’t nearly as focused, but it was rigorous in a very different way.</p>

4

<p>Halfokum. That is more classes in acting than I thought. When we toured they said M,W and F were in studio and T and Th were reserved for other gen ed classes. It sounds like there are more acting classes possible with the electives though. Good to know. Tks.</p>

5

<p>I always thought conservatory program basically meant a lack of academics. All theater, all the time.</p>

6

<p>Emerson is the one I can’t quite figure out. I have read the course descriptions and requirements and the BFA is 72 units. Most BFA’s are in the 100’s.</p>

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<p>Actor12, the proportion I’ve always heard is 75-80% departmental coursework for a conservatory-style BFA. But there are the non-college/university conservatories–like Stella Adler, etc.–where there aren’t any real academics. Maybe that’s what you’re thinking of–?–and those would be quite different, you’re right.</p>

8

<p>I was actually thinking of places like Boston Conservatory or Cal Arts. Those are BFA’s but are there academics? I don’t know, but conservatory-style and BFA-like and even some BA’s with a lot of performance opportunities tend to blur the lines. Also, at some you can meet most of the GE requirements with theater related classes.</p>

9

<p>After I posted I had this moment of, what if nobody answers? I’ve got this thing about never wanting to be the last word on any thread. So I started to try to dig out some of the info myself at other schools for my own curiosity and ran into a big batch of pOtAtO, pOtatO, tOmAtO, tOmatO. It’s hard to compare based on credit hours and I have no way of knowing what a real schedule looks like anywhere other than at NYU Tisch because I’ve got an actual one belonging to a student sitting in front of me to add up. </p>

<p>I got as far as just looking at credits required for the BFA degrees at a list of schools and then how many have to be in liberal arts classes outside of the major but even that gets a bit sticky. For example, I found this so far: </p>

<p>school/required liberal arts credits/total credits needed for BFA
BU 28 128
UNCSA 36 134
NYU 32 128
Syracuse ? 124?
Rutgers 33 120?
Purchase 30 132
New School ? 120</p>

<p>But much of it doesn’t really translate exactly. For example (feel free to jump in photomom5), New School says you need 120 credits for the BFA degree but they also have this freshman core thing that I’m not sure is in that credit count or not. And it looks like many of their classes that at NYU would count as non-studio classes (just by their title, I haven’t read the description) including some of those theatre production, theatre history classes etc. are in the studio count but wouldn’t be at NYU they’d be in the liberal arts count. I struggled to figure that out with Syracuse as well. Anyway, I gave up which is probably a good thing because I know NOTHING of value on this about any school other than NYU. Staying in my lane.</p>

<p>So there may be no neat and tidy way to really present this like I had hoped. Well if nothing else I hope that I did enlighten anyone that is actually interested in NYU but concerned about how much training they might receive there in comparison to other academic requirements. Real data I promise and stuff that I agree is awfully hard to figure out from the website which is frankly, terrible. </p>

<p>Forgetting the fantasy about something neat and tidy that would allow for easy reference, isn’t this still good info to have? Go force your kids to give you their schedules (like I did and it was like pulling teeth).</p>

10

<p>Thanks for the details on Otterbein and Kenyon Times3. Do they escape freshman English at Otterbein (lucky) or is that captured in that interdisciplinary seminar thing? I assume the latter.</p>

<p>I should have mentioned that working on crew which is a requirement in the theatre production class (which doesn’t count as studio time because at NYU it isn’t considered that) obviously really means more time “in class” than I’ve presented since it’s mandatory. I’m just assuming that’s par for the course everywhere no more nor less at any school.</p>

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<p>^Pretty sure that the interdisciplinary seminars include freshman English for all Otterbein kids, halflokum. They’re reading- and writing-intensive. However…he DOES escape math and foreign language requirements! The BFA performance kids are exempt from those. My son wouldn’t mind taking more math but is grateful to be out from under the foreign-language burden, as it’s an area of weakness for him (as in, mild learning disability). It wasn’t a big consideration in making his choice, but it definitely feels like a bonus! :D</p>

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<p>Maybe I should have my non-theater senior son apply to Otterbein too if that works for other majors as well. Foreign language is the bane of his existence. :-)</p>

<p>I “think” there is some sort of a math/science requirement at Tisch but the description of what science means is pretty wide (probably includes psychology, etc… don’t quote me on that and of course I think psych is a science so I’m not dissing. I just didn’t pay much attention to that requirement). My daughter was a math geek and her AP in Calculus score took care of that requirement. I know there is no foreign language requirement in Tisch and it is virtually impossible (unless you take an academic semester which some do) to take foreign language at Tisch because foreign language classes are on the same days as studio.</p>

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<p>CALARTS told us the following in regards to the BFA in Acting:
122 total credit hours for BFA
48 in Critical Studies
60% Acting
40% academics
Academics on Wed only
Acting courses MTTRF
When I looked online prior to the visit I saw 46CS and 129 total for BFA
I would consider CALARTS a stand alone conservatory program</p>

<p>Chapman told us the following in regards to the BFA in Screenacting:
124 total credit hours for the BFA
46 of these are GE requirements
78 are towards the BFA
They did not provide percentages
They did not provide what day of the week you would be doing what type of classes
I would consider Chapman a Liberal Arts University with a Film and Theatre department within.</p>

<p>USC told us the following in regards to the BFA in Acting:
128 Total credit hours for the BFA
They have CS and GE requirements and I need to confirm the numbers I wrote down prior to posting.
They did not provide percentages
They did not provide what day of the week you would be doing what type of classes
USC lists themselves as a Liberal Arts University with a conservatory approach to training.</p>

<p>Stella Adler is an acting training program. Non degree. If you join the two year program you will receive a certificate at the end saying you graduated from Stella Adler’s two year acting training program. You could list this on your resume.
The classes are on various days of the week and at various times from the morning to the evening.
If you wanted to hold a job and audition while at Stella Adler you can. Most of the students work part time.
The program is year round with a 2 week break at Christmas, a 1 week break in the summer, and a 1 week break in April.</p>

<p>Just for information please note that every single school we have looked at online or visited has the BFA and BA requirements and GE and Critical Studies requirements online and you can print these out and check them out side by side.</p>

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<p>^^threed I read all of your trip reports along with the post above. I want to give you props for excellent, well-balanced reporting. It was very generous of you to take the time to share.</p>

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<p>Does it really matter?</p>

<p>If you are getting the training you need and want and that fits your learning style, does it matter whether the program calls itself a “conservatory” or not?</p>

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<p>Haha, Halflokum, when I looked just now at the O’bein curriculum page, it actually DOES show percentages! Sort of…It has theater requirements as 69.5%, electives as 4.7%, and other requirements (integrative studies, which is their one non-department requirement class per year, plus senior year experience and health/PE!) as 25.8%. But for BFA performance kids, the senior year experience is an internship in a casting office, and their electives will certainly include some theater classes–could be ALL theater classes if they want–so the percentages are a little inaccurate. I’d say it’s still about 80% theater overall.</p>

17

<p>On the other side of the spectrum: My D is at Northwestern, non-conservatory of course :-)</p>

<p>They don’t do credits (as far as I can tell), but she’s required to take about 50% of her classes on acting, acting-related. For instance, this upcoming term she is taking Acting 1 and Voice for Shakespeare. Acting I is a core class that’s taught on a continuum–she chose the professor she wanted to work with, and will be working with him for the next three years, along with about 18 fellow students. They learn a variety of skills</p>

<p>She is also taking Statistical Analysis in Sociology (something like that!) and a Psych class, as she is minoring or double-majoring in Sociology/Psychology. She loves that she is taking rigorous academic courses. Northwestern BS has no language requirement (she’s horrible at languages) and no gen ed requirement, which frees her up to take the higher level focused courses. All this is why a BA (BS in Northwestern) program is good for her. </p>

<p>She will also audition for shows and do stage crew (last term in the spring she was ASM for the mainstage production). She is quite busy from early morning to late at night. But it’s not purely acting. Again, this was more to her taste, what works for her. </p>

<p>It’s really important to consider what works for you and to know in advance what your schedule will be like and what courses you will be required to take. My S is more interested in the other side of the spectrum, the pure conservatory with little or no outside academic classes.</p>

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<p>Connections, am I right in remembering that your daughter is a sophomore at NU? If so, was her course load proportioned in a similar way in her first year? Just curious that she’s got Acting 1 this year; was there a prerequisite for it?</p>

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<p>Continuing with NU, my daughter, who just graduated, stopped taking any non-theatre classes by first term (quarter system) Junior year (she found math and history classes relaxing compared to theatre/mt classes). Starting second term junior year she had 2 acting classes, 2-3 dance classes, 1 voice lesson and 1 music lesson (piano or theory) and one miscellaneous theatre class (business, childrens, etc.) each term. That plus all the “basic” acting classes equals closer to 75% of total classes in 4 years. Of course she didn’t double major or even have a minor and had AP classes that counted towards her required credits, and her voice lessons counted as her English required course.</p>

20

<p>Like you’ve found, the way the different schools have the balance of credit hours set up for different types of classes doesn’t always mean a lot in reality and you really have to get the actual class schedules to tell much about this with specificity. Like at the U Minn/Guthrie program, they are in acting, voice, speech, movement and text classes between 22 and 24 hours per week as I recall, but they can’t have credit for being full-time students without scheduling at least one academic class for which they’ll get 3 credit hours. I always thought that was a dirty trick. :slight_smile: I believe it’s the same at CMU although their craft-based class hours kind of go through the roof into the 30 something range as upperclassmen.</p>

<p>I used to have some schedules from different schools that I got from students I knew when I was looking at colleges, but they sadly vanished into the ethers when my old laptop finally died. But as I recall and from what I can salvage with a quick search …</p>

<p>Julliard - There is no typical week as the schedule varies according to what’s going on, but they on average spend around 35 hours per week in acting, voice, speech, movement and text classes all four years with one arts related liberal studies class per semester the first two years.</p>

<p>SUNY Purchase - “The schedule is rigorous; in a typical week, a student works directly with faculty members for 27 to 40 hours and spends a comparable amount of time in preparation.” They somehow make room for one general studies class per semester although a lot of kids find it best to take the ones they haven’t tested out of through AP in summer school. </p>

<p>UNCSA - They have sample course schedules for the different years linked on their website although they’re out of date since they’ve switched from a trimester to a semester system since those were posted … [Drama</a> | Programs](<a href=“http://uncsa.edu/drama/programs.htm]Drama”>http://uncsa.edu/drama/programs.htm) </p>

<p>Just a quick minute count shows their Spring term freshmen being in craft based classes for 23.5 hours with 2.5 hours devoted to General Studies. They also had a 2 hr 15 minute film seminar a friend of mine was notorious for sleeping through plus they had their crew assignments from 7-11 for which they got graded although they got that time off when they weren’t assigned to a show. They’ve since also added in a Digital Media course all freshman acting majors have to take to my understanding. Maybe ActingDad will chime in with his daughter’s actual up-to-date schedule if she has time to give it to him … :slight_smile: Then, briefly, they were in craft related classes 32.5 hours per week second year not including the evening rehearsals for which they were graded, 29 hours per week third year including daytime rehearsals, but excluding the graded 7-11 rehearsals which actually count as a course, and 41 hours mainly spent in constant rehearsal or physical training by Spring term of the final year. Also, in years 2-4, there are 2.5 hours set aside each week for General Studies although students who bring at least a couple of AP scores of 4 or 5 have usually finished all that by the end of second year. There is a year-long theatre history requirement that has to get done somewhere in all that, too, plus they can take elective classes focusing on particular playwrights and different stylistic periods and genres as I recall. </p>

<p>Rutgers As I recall, first semester freshmen spend 22 hours per week in acting, voice, speech and movement classes not including the required Theatre History class or another Tuesday and Thursday afternoon class for which they really just get their crew assigments although they are graded for it. Sophomore year, craft-based classes bump up to 28, Junior year they’re in round-the-clock classes at the Shakespeare’s Globe in London other than in some kind of British Art and Culture General Studies class that sends them to a lot of museums and play performances, and first semester Senior year they’re mainly in rehearsals and taking classes on the business, auditioning, etc. Then they mainly rehearse and wait around to graduate second semester Senior year while filling in whatever General Studies classes they still need. They also have a single class period on Tuesday and Thursday mornings freshman and sophomore year in which they cover the one General Studies class they’re supposed to take each semester if they didn’t bring in enough AP scores of 4 or 5 to exempt those requirements. </p>

<p>One way to construct what an actual schedule might look like if you don’t have access to a real one from a student is to get a copy of the course requirements off the school’s Departmental website or dig them out of the school’s Undergraduate Bulletin, Course Catalogue or whatever a particular school calls it and then dig into the class scheduler for a given term as the courses relate to the different years in the program to get the meeting times. I did that with a couple for which I couldn’t get ahold of actual schedules when I was choosing between schools. It’ll never be completely accurate and it certainly won’t cover all the work you have to do in preparation for class or the pace at which classes at the different schools move which is an intangible that varies a lot, but it can give you a pretty good general idea of what you’re really looking at just in respect to class hours.</p>