<p>Hey all, I just was wondering about opinions about the foreign language departments at University of Chicago. I got accepted, and I'm having a hard time deciding between Chicago and Dartmouth. Specifically, I'm interested in East Asian Studies, Japanese, Chinese, and IR down the road.
How are Chicago's study abroad programs? Is there a cohesive emphasis on those foreign languages? Are there many opportunities in those fields? How about compared to Dartmouth? </p>
<p>On an off-topic note, I read somewhere about Chicago's coffee shop atmosphere. Would somebody like to elaborate on that? Is it Northwest/Seattle-esque? Because I would LOVE that.</p>
<p>Jamiecago, convincing a few people on the CC forums to turn down UChicago is not going to have a significant impact on your chances of being taken off the waitlist. Yes, Dartmouth has an excellent foreign languages department, but it doesn’t win “hands down.”</p>
<p>Froshjosh, UChicago’s foreign languages program, in general, is pretty damn amazing. I’m not personally acquainted with the East Asian Studies department, but I’ve heard nothing but good things about it. I believe phuriku may have more to say on the subject, so you can ask him for more specific information.</p>
<p>Thanks! I’ll contact him on that. I’m trying to gather as much information I can on each aspect of these colleges. I’ve always sucked at being head-strong on making decisions, so any help is appreciated.</p>
<p>My son is an EALC major who will have done study abroad in both China and Japan. I am unable to compare and contrast with Dartmouth, but I can say that I would be hard-pressed to imagine an experience much better than the one my son has had thus far at Chicago. PM me if you’d like more specific information.</p>
<p>@neltharion: Not this time. I seriously mean it. In terms of language, Dartmouth prevails. You can ask the same question on Dartmouth thread, and people will say the same thing. One of the reasons I applied ED to Dartmouth was because of its strong language program. (French, in my case) </p>
<p>Also don’t forget that in language departments, smaller size will matter A LOT.</p>
<p>^That’s completely ridiculous. The language departments here are indeed fairly small, and even intro language classes are capped at 18 or so students. Many are smaller than that, and they’re held in classrooms with discussion tables, not lecture halls. Yet at the same time, the departments are big enough that the courses offered are amazing. A quick glance at the course catalog would show this.</p>
<p>The students I know taking East Asian languages love it. Japanese is pretty popular, and most students only quit taking it when they have to because of other course requirements. The courses are fairly fast-paced as far as language classes go, but I see that as a benefit. I personally don’t like wasting time on elementary concepts when I’m learning a foreign language.</p>
<p>Jamiecago, my Russian class (intro. level) for the last two quarters contained six students, and the drill sections eight at most. The individual attention we receive from the faculty is absolutely amazing. Like JBVirtuoso says, take a look through our course catalog, and you’ll get an idea of just how many languages we offer here and the variety of our course offerings.</p>
<p>. . . and obviously, if you ask the people on the Dartmouth thread, they’re going to say Dartmouth has the better department. That’s not particularly unbiased evidence. Look, I’m not saying UChicago has a better foreign languages program - Dartmouth’s is excellent, as I said - but UChicago’s is absolutely nothing to scoff about.</p>
<p>From what I’ve seen, at least as far as East Asian languages go (outside of which I have little experience), Dartmouth is really no match for Chicago.</p>
<p>For example, by [Japanese</a> Exercise with Kanji / Japanese Language, Literature and Culture/DAMELL’S JAPAN PROGRAM](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~damell/Japanese/exercise.html]Japanese”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~damell/Japanese/exercise.html), it seems that Dartmouth only covers 300 kanji through 3rd year Japanese. Considering that there are 2000 Jouyou kanji (and 3000 in common use), this seems to be skimping in the extreme. At Chicago, you’ll know AT LEAST 500, but closer to 1000 kanji after 3rd year. At the end of 4th year at Chicago, you’ll know 1500-2k. If you’ll look at the sample sentences from that link, too, it’s quite clear that Dartmouth is lagging behind other schools such as Columbia ([Columbia</a> University Japanese Program](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/ealac/japanese/studentworks.html]Columbia”>http://www.columbia.edu/cu/ealac/japanese/studentworks.html)). And Columbia’s 5th year is equivalent to Chicago’s 3rd year. By Chicago’s 3rd year, you will be reading works from intellectuals such as Itami Mansaku, Amino Yoshihiko, and Miyazawa Kenji, whereas at Dartmouth, it seems you will be learning to read sentences such as “Since we have twenty more minutes we should be on time for the 9:30 super express train.”</p>
<p>At Chicago, they have to cater to the graduate students as well as the undergraduate students, so the level of classes has to be very high. By the end of 4th year at Chicago, you will be fluent, which can hardly be said of other schools. In this year’s 4th year Japanese, for example, there are four students remaining, and three of the four are Japanese and were raised in Japan. There is very little hand-holding at Chicago like there is at Dartmouth, which is why Chicago is so much more advanced.</p>
<p>There is also to be said something of Chicago’s prestige in East Asia. Chicago is easily within the top 5 prestige-wise in China and Japan (and I assume Korea, although I don’t have much experience here), and Dartmouth hardly has any international reputation. It would be greatly beneficial to your future career to choose Chicago.</p>
<p>Ummm . . . You should want to go to Chicago in order to associate with fabulous, interesting students like phuriku. But you may want to backcheck some of what he says if he is talking trash about other schools’ curriculums. (As he doesn’t very often.)</p>
<p>Dartmouth, like Chicago, is on the quarter system. (Which means, by the way, that students from either school may have trouble using a semester-school’s study abroad programs, because the start and end dates often don’t work well, especially in spring and summer.) What phuriku’s link shows is that by the end of the third QUARTER of Japanese at Dartmouth (“Japanese 3”), one can expect to know 300 kanji. The third YEAR of Japanese at Dartmouth is Japanese 31-33.</p>
<p>Where Dartmouth and Chicago really part company is that it looks like you can’t go beyond first-year Japanese at Dartmouth without either spending the summer in Japan doing intensive Japanese II or learning second-year Japanese elsewhere. Japanese II is not offered at Dartmouth proper. Also, advanced courses on culture and history are much slimmer pickings at Dartmouth – a grand total of four (not all of which are taught every year), vs. at least 11 at Chicago (not all of which are going to be taught every year either).</p>
<p>As for the quarters vs. semesters, I’ve seen students from both types of schools having a little trouble matching things up. A solvable problem, but one to be aware of. Of course, it goes away for students who opt for full years abroad.</p>
<p>Oh, and HonorsCentaur, maybe you already knew this, but if you’re planning on Paris, then Chicago is a really good choice. There are quarter programs in English and French offered through Chicago’s Paris Center and a year program for which the Chicago and the Center facilitate your taking courses at a variety of Parisian universities, matching your interests to what’s available. I think the Paris Center is Chicago’s only physical presence abroad, at least until the China Center opens.</p>
