<p>I will add that my son was required to have a minimum GPA two semesters in a row in order to qualify for study abroad. This worked so much better for him than our nagging ever did. His university abroad was easier too.</p>
<p>There is no way that you can come back fluent after a semester; however I have known students with 2 years of college-level foreign language instruction who went on a year-long abroad program and did come back fluent. In the full sense of the word. </p>
<p>However. And this is an IMPORTANT “however.” These were TOUGH programs. The kids lived with families where NO ONE SPOKE ENGLISH. They were in a country/school with very few English speakers. They worked their butts off. They did not skype with friends or Mom and Dad every other night in English, naturally, spend hours on Facebook every week or nor stream american movies in the evening or hang out with other English-speaking tourists/expats. </p>
<p>They were in challenging, full-immersion environments. In other words, they were in highly unusual programs. </p>
<p>Most semester-abroad programs are lightweight - for lightweights. Not that there’s anything wrong with that! But let’s not kid ourselves about the actual level of academic of linguistic skills are acquired in those few months.</p>
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<p>Since I’m American and I seem to be missing your point, perhaps you are confirming the stereotype about Americans and irony. Please explain?</p>
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<p>As in, they could read newspapers and novels, and follow everything from political discussions to pub arguments with no more difficulty than a native speaker?</p>
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<p>You really have no idea about language acquisition, do you.</p>
<p>I started learning English when I was 11. When I was 14, I moved to an international school where English was the language of instruction, and was immediately expected to submit written work in English. My grammar wasn’t flawless and my ideas weren’t complex, but I did what was expected of me, and by the end of high school, I had attained the level of English proficiency I have now, which allows me to do college coursework in English and live in an English-speaking environment.</p>
<p>A friend of mine from college started learning German when we were freshmen, then spent the summer after freshman year in Germany, doing an intensive language course. After that, she spent the entire school year studying literature and linguistics at a German university. She wrote many essays in German that year and gave multiple presentations on projects she had completed–again, in German–and this happened less than two years after starting to learn the language. Her German wasn’t perfect at the beginning, but other (German) students depended on her to do her work, so she sucked it up and wrote her essays and gave her presentations. Her German improved very fast.</p>
<p>Writing and speaking in a foreign language is not some higher power you can only unlock after becoming really good at reading and understanding. These activities all go together. It doesn’t make sense to delay learning to express yourself because you’re not perfect at understanding other people’s ideas yet. That strategy will only hold you back; in fact, the more you challenge yourself, the faster you’ll learn. This is why it’s entirely possible to go to a foreign country (or school, in my case) with ‘intermediate’ knowledge of the language and progress to near-fluency very quickly. You do have to work very hard, though, and you have to, on some level, be forced to operate outside of your comfort zone. Which is why American study abroad programs that encourage living with other Americans and taking classes separately from regular students are probably less effective at facilitating the improvement of their students’ language skills.</p>
<p>ETA: On the subject of study abroad, I’m currently spending my junior year at Oxford University and it’s just as intellectually rewarding as the two years I spent at my American school.</p>
<p>When my daughter looked at colleges, she wanted a college with a full year study abroad program and it had to include her FA. Holy Cross had both (among other things) Except for the plane cost for Xmas visit home, which was on us, we paid no more for tuition and actually saved on R&B which we gave her for food there. (which still came out less) She wouldn’t have traded that year for anything and it has helped her with interviews for post grad endeavors. Some like that she handled herself for a year abroad, that she traveled (if the program was International) and she did well.
Her sister went abroad for a semester, it was cheaper for us, because she paid what the college charged in this case (Edinburgh) and she still received aid from her college, but it was adjusted to the new cost. They also gave money for airfare.
It might be hyped at some colleges, but the study abroad varies greatly. I am glad we asked about FA because quite a few wouldn’t give it, others were very generous. It’s not for everyone but my girls still have part of their hearts in UK.</p>
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<p>We hosted foreign students three times: twice for a semester, and once for a couple of weeks. I can assure you that we were not paid! Nor were we exposing them to undesirable influences. :rolleyes: (In fact, we had a problem with one of our students smoking in OUR house when it was clearly not allowed.) Some people are simply interested in knowing people of varying cultures and like young people. We remain friends with one of them, and recently got together in Europe. S is in contact with one of the others. It is true that host families will vary, but I must say, so will the students being hosted. :)</p>
<p>My S went to the same college as Sybbie’s D. He spent a term in Paris as a college sophomore. The cost, except for airfare, was covered by his FA. The program had a normal courseload: one taught by a prof from S’s school, the other two by French academics. There is much to be said for studying French history and art history in Paris, for obvious reasons. All classes were conducted in French, and the students were required to take a pledge to speak only French while there. (This program was aimed at students with proficiency/fluency in the language.) The students were placed in homestays. S was with a great family who apparently enjoyed hosting. The food was excellent, the family members educated and cultivated.</p>
<p>After graduating, S spent a year at an elite French university. He apparently had no difficulty writing essays in the language, then or earlier…</p>
<p>I think that the opportunity to spend an extended period in any country other than one’s own is extremely valuable.</p>
<p>The OP has previously exhibited a desire to keep her children close to home…</p>
<p>My daughter, a HS sophomore, will be studying in Spain. She leaves in a couple of weeks and will be there until the end of June. Her host family are UNPAID VOLUNTEERS. We’ve already received a letter from them. They have hosted one student before, so they must have enjoyed the experience.</p>
<p>D is going through ciee, a program that has been around since the late 1940s. There will be a local coordinator that D can contact if she’s having difficulties. She can also contact Interhispania, the Spanish exchange program that works with ciee. There is also a ciee hotline that she can call 24/7. She WILL have support. ciee is one of the most impressive companies I’ve come across - they are on the ball and enthusiastic. Yes, they’re pricey, BUT they include everything, such as hotel / dinner in Boston the night before their flight. D will bring money for souvenirs and a few personal items, and that’s it. I am so excited for her! This was ALL her idea - she researched programs, filled out the long application, wrote her host family in Spanish, stays in frequent contact with ciee, etc.</p>
<p>I forgot to mention that she will be studying in a local high school. The host family and teachers will be asked NOT to speak any English around her. She will be expected to do all of the coursework. The teachers understand that language will be a handicap at first, so they will accommodate her the best they can.</p>
<p>From the people I’ve spoken to, the first couple of weeks will be dreadful and exhausting. But after three or four weeks, she will understand most of what is said. After three or four months, she will be dreaming in Spanish and not having to translate from English to Spanish in her head. I have to admit, I’m envious.</p>
<p>I would gladly accept a host student into my house because 1- I love learning about other cultures and 2- I’d love to give a student the same opportunity I had. </p>
<p>If your program has a way to switch host families if things don’t work out (as mine did), I don’t really think choosing a host family is too big of a gamble. You could always ask how many host students that family had had before. I knew the host student my family had had the year before and I asked him about them before I left- rave reviews and my family still remembered and adored him (the student). </p>
<p>If your goal is cultural and language immersion, I don’t really think that living in your own apartment or in a single (or international) dorm room is going to give you anything like a host family but it’s all about personal preference. </p>
<p>I’m also a trusting person by nature so…</p>
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<p>What is the deal with interjecting personal “remarks” in the general discussions? There is no need for such remarks. Disagree with the post if you want to, but stop of short of questioning the background of others. </p>
<p>Now, if you care to know what I know about “language acquisition” I would be glad to share the details in PMs in a number of foreign languages --since using foreign languages is not permitted on the public forum. It will not take long for you to understand how inaccurate your above comment is. </p>
<p>To keep it short, I grew up in a house where four languages were spoken and spent considerable time abroad living, studying, and researching. I know pretty well how hard or easy reaching --and maintaining-- fluency is, and how different the perception of fluency is.</p>
<p>Lastly, there is a reason why English has become the de facto lingua franca in the world. (ELF) being the use of the English language "as a common means of communication for speakers of different first languages” has created a world of bilingual or trilingual adepts. For most, adopting English is not only normal but a necessity. And learning languages is often tied to its necessity or even ROI. One of the reasons of the poor incorporation of foreign languages in the US, is that few have a REAL need to become fluent in a different language. People who live in small countries in Europe are dealing with the economic necessity of speaking (and later writing) in the languages spoken a few miles from their own cities. The Swiss or the Belgians are just a couple of examples of this. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, moving FROM English to a foreign language is not as “easy” as moving TO English. But that does not mean that English is an easier language to master fully in terms of vocabulary. It is, however, easier to become proficient, and with time and effort, fluent.</p>
<p>Again, I have never written that it was impossible. I know more than a few people who are amazing polyglots. I do not need to look farther than my own parents to see people who have studied and done research in at least four languages. But their upbringing was international from the very beginning.</p>
<p>On a practical note- my company usually requires “fluency” in the local language for transfers, promotions, etc. but the definition of fluency is pretty fluid depending on the language, local needs, etc. If you want to get promoted to our operation in Amsterdam, frankly, nobody is even going to test you on your Dutch. Everyone in the business community (at least the folks you’ll be dealing with) speaks English; you’ll pick up enough Dutch to buy your fruit at the local stand over time.</p>
<p>If you want to work in Dubai, you will probably need “college level” proficiency in Arabic- reading and writing, with some conversation. Nobody will expect true fluency, but on the other hand, if you can’t read the alphabet at all or conduct a basic conversation, it’s not happening.</p>
<p>So for people concerned with employment implications for their student- it really depends. If you’re getting hired by the CIA or NSA because of your Korean, Arabic, Farsi- you need to be fluent. If you’re getting hired by a multinational to work in the US with the option of being transferred globally, most companies are pretty generous in how they define fluency. If you are good at learning languages (i.e. picking up the alphabet, grammar, vocabulary) a big corporation will likely be willing to give you advanced language instruction if you need it. </p>
<p>But to be honest, many American born people we interview are fluent in zero languages (i.e. cannot write a three paragraph, error free memo; cannot make a five minute presentation which is grammatically correct and in Standard English, so worrying about OTHER languages is really a luxury!</p>
<p>Does the fourth grade no longer cover contractions and homonyms???</p>
<p>Of course they’re covered in school, blossom, but how many people even among the well educated and upper class people on CC do you see constantly writing “cat’s” when they mean “cats”? People develop bad habits and then it’s considered bad manners to correct them.</p>
<p>I am always astounded how often I put in stray apostrophes or drop plural s’s. I never did it in the past, so I think it’s either a function of typing too fast or seeing the incorrect versions so often that everything starts looking right.</p>
<p>The question of fluency is a tricky one, since everyone seems to have a different definition. I think that you can achieve something close to fluency if you have a couple of years of a college language or four years of high school and spend a semester to a year in an immersion experience with some serious studying. But you may still end up with surprising gaps in your vocabulary. For example after five years in Germany, working in a German architectural firm I thought I was pretty fluent. I even was getting better at understanding jokes in the Bavarian dialect. Then I got pregnant and discovered a world of words I’d never run into - that the average German fourth grader probably knows perfectly well. Still I can (or could) read fat novels without a dictionary, converse on most subjects without bothering anyone by my lack of vocabulary, and while my grammar wasn’t always perfect coming out of my mouth, I did know the rules and generally wrote pretty well. In Germany I had to take meeting notes for a project I managed. </p>
<p>My son who is now into his fourth year studying Arabic and has spent a full academic year plus a summer would tell you he’s a long way from fluent. He can watch the news, and read a newspaper, but a book like Harry Potter would be beyond him. He can’t read the Koran because it’s not written in Modern Standard Arabic, which is a language nobody but TV announcers use. He can speak the Jordanian dialect, which works in most of the Arab penninsula, but starts to get shaky in Egypt and by the time you get to Morocco it’s pretty much useless. He did reach a level where he could talk about pretty much anything, even if he was reduced to saying things like “the special bomb they used in Japan during World War Two” because he doesn’t know the word for atomic bomb.</p>
<p>OP ~ I was concerned about cost for study abroad. I started being concerned when my 2 DCs were in high school. There were several HS groups that went on international trips. I knew they would want to go. This is what I did ~ we took a family european trip which I planned and budgeted and, at least compared to the HS trips, we came out ahead. I knew, I could then say ‘no’ to other trips without guilt. I know we are lucky to be able to provide this.</p>
<p>Study abroad is very valuable. I know that. Once DD was in college her friends started participating. DD, I think, sensing that we might not pay for it, starting looking for work opportunities overseas. She was able to be paid for a summer position at a UK university. My DS may not be as ambitious in that regard. That will be up to him.</p>
<p>Again, as others have said, check out the costs. I agree an international experience is so valuable</p>
<p>I am in the camp that thinks both fluency in another language and the value to future employers of study abroad is over-rated. From my experience, one’s willingness to live abroad is more important to an employer than whether one has done it before or is fluent in any language other than English. </p>
<p>From one’s personal standpoint, I do think study abroad can be valuable.</p>
<p>My kid did a study abroad in a English speaking country. Learning a language was NOT why he went. It was for the opportunity to study at a very highly regarded conservatory abroad…with a fabulous teacher, and the opportunities to see many wonderful orchestras within his study abroad city. He was studying alongside students from this country. It was a great experience for him.</p>
<p>DD never did a study abroad, and we wished she could have. But then she did two years in the Peace Corps (and yes, on this we did expect her to develop language fluency…which she did, as well as having something very worthwhile for her resume).</p>
<p>Honestly, I wish I had had the opportunity to do a term abroad. </p>
<p>And to the OP…there are many opportunities our kids have had that we did not have ourselves. We are happy to be able to support these opportunities.</p>
<p>Op,
The only reason that these colleges are talking about study abroad is purely “marketing” to prospective students and their parents. It’s to show that it is available just in case a student excludes a certain college because it does not have study abroad. Additionally, it may make a kid or parent think about study abroad in case it never occurred to them. It’s the same reason that they all talk about the “blue light emergency button” to show the students and parents that they have something in place for safety. Colleges do not force students to study abroad. If you don’t want to pay for study abroad, then your kid does not have to study abroad. As others have said, sometimes the cost of study abroad is cheaper because you don’t have to pay for the US college tuition for that semester.</p>
<p>Yes, colleges know what they can offer as a “pull” and what parents or students might want from surveys and just studying what was suggested in the past.
Providence for instance, when my daughter said she wouldn’t go when she learned they wouldn’t let her use her FA for study abroad, the admissions officer said they had that “in discussion” and would make sure to pass it on. Two years later, I heard a student say they changed that policy, at least with some abroad opportunities. I have no idea how much that will matter to future applicants, but I’m sure my daughter couldn’t have been the only one disappointed with that policy. I learned for us, it wasn’t really expensive and could be cheaper which was an education for me! We were very pleased all around with both experiences and I was proud of how much more mature and confident they seemed on returning, especially the one who went for a year.</p>
<p>“There is no way that you can come back fluent after a semester; however I have known students with 2 years of college-level foreign language instruction who went on a year-long abroad program and did come back fluent. In the full sense of the word.”</p>
<p>As in, they could read newspapers and novels, and follow everything from political discussions to pub arguments with no more difficulty than a native speaker?</p>
<p>My answer:
‘No more difficulty than a native speaker’ is subjective. I know native speakers who can’t follow political arguments, lol.</p>
<p>Actually, if part of learning the language while studying abroad entails extensive reading of the local media (as it SHOULD), following political discussions isn’t hard. The language of politics - the many "ism"s - is similar to English, as are the philosophical constructs. </p>
<p>Much tougher is a discussion of, say, music or art. It’s dependent on much more nuanced vocabulary.</p>
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<p>Vocabulary is the easy part. It’s learning to follow conversations between native speakers at natural speed in informal environments that’s hard.</p>