Study Abroad Grades and GPA

<p>I'm a Junior in college and am seriously considering applying to law school. As of now, my GPA is a 3.96 so I anticipate applying to some top schools. My concern though, is that I'm spending next semester at a Chinese university where the grading scale is somewhat different than in the US. Grades still come out on a 1-100 scale, but (at least according to my study abroad advisor) a 70 is considered strong and nobody from my school has ever gotten above a 90 in any class. </p>

<p>I know this sounds nitpicky, but it seems that if these sorts of grades were to go into my LSAC GPA, they could potentially ruin my chances at a top school. So my first question is: will I be required to send transcripts from the chinese university. The grades will show up on my home school transcript, but they will be listed as Credit/No Credit, and I'm not sure if they will appear as transfer credit or actual school credit. </p>

<p>Second, if I do have to send the grades is there any way to convince the LSAC that they should be adjusted. Would a letter from my study abroad advisor about grade distribution in the China program do the trick? </p>

<p>Thanks in advance for the help and I'm sorry this sounds so trivial.</p>

<p>It's not trivial- I have made mention a few times that kids need to understand study abroad grades and how it can affect law school/grad school GPA.
I really can't give you a specific answer. It is my understanding that ALL UG grades count- be it summer school, study abroad etc.</p>

<p>Question- are you going with a program through another US university??
- are you enrolled directly through the Chinese U and therefore expect to get a transcript from the Chinese U. ??
- are you going through a study abroad program with a company like CIEE or any other private company??
This may affect how info gets transferred over to LSAC.</p>

<p>my kid was lucky- she goes to one school-- study abroad was sponsored by another NY school which issued her a transcript from their school. Both transcipts were sent to LSAC. Grading system from her program in Italy was fair and it was reflected on the other transcript from the NY college. </p>

<p>I have read on law school websites, that kids have had to get transcipts translated and sent to LSAC- so keep that in mind if your transcript is directly from the Chinese U. and unfortunately I do not think LSAC takes the difficulty of a program into consideration. </p>

<p>sorry I probably asked more questions than I gave answers to- but it is a tricky area and one where you will be better off getting answers now rather than later.
you can try to contact LSAC and see if you can get a direct answer, but I get the feeling they may not be too forthcoming with this type of info-</p>

<p>one last question question- does your study abroad advisor know anyone else from the China program that also applied to Law School?? you will get the best info, from someone who has been in the same position as you-</p>

<p>good luck! get back to us and let us know how this works out as I am sure there are others who are interested in doing study abroad too-</p>

<p>at this stage- just enjoy your experience in China and don't be overly concerned about the grades.<br>
Your LSAT score will be a major determining factor as to what law school you'll attend.<br>
so word of advice- Prepare for your LSAT's!! (but hopefully that won't interfer too much with your study abroad experience)</p>

<p>marny, </p>

<p>Thanks so much for your advice. I'll try and answer your questions as best I can. </p>

<p>My school as a special relationship with this particular program and funnels students into it, but the program itself (its called something like 'Foreign Language Student Program') though is run by the Chinese University and has students from everywhere. So as far as I'm aware, I do get a Chinese transcript. My school knows that the grading system is different--which is why they won't transfer the grades (whereas they do from other programs). </p>

<p>I will absolutely ask the study abroad advisor about whether this situation has come up before, but she hasn't proven terribly useful so far and I kind of doubt she'll have a straight answer. </p>

<p>I calculated what 5 'B's would do to my LSAC GPA (which seems like a reasonable guess as to how I might do under this grading system, given my past performance), and it would drop from a 3.96 to a 3.75. It seems like this would make a very significant difference, so I'm fairly worried now.</p>

<p>ok- "my guess' is if you are receiving a Chinese transcript, it may need to be translated and sent to LSAC. I do remember reading about that issue from other posts on law school discussion (LSD) or top- law- schools website. So I am pretty sure the translation of transcripts is "routinely" done for study abroad kids.</p>

<p>my kid also has around a 3.75 GPA. The reality is, it should be good enough for a T-14 acceptance with a "high" enough LSAT score.
--so even a 162 LSAT with a 3.96 may not fare better than a 168 LSAT and 3.75. Of course, a 173 LSAT and 3.96 would work "miracles" (or at least a top 6 school.)
at this stage, I think your LSAT score is going to really be the tie breaker for law school admission regardless if your GPA is 3.75 or 3.96. </p>

<p>good luck-- enjoy your study abroad. To me, it is an experience that will well be worth the possible slight decline in your GPA.</p>

<p>best wishes!!</p>

<p>Yes, but it's not as if he's trading off GPA points for an LSAT score. He's going to have a given LSAT score regardless of his GPA. We just don't know what it is yet.</p>

<p>Given that the LSAT score is going to be unaffected, the question is how important his GPA is going to be in a drop of .2 GPA points, which is substantial.</p>

<p>Furthermore, the T14 are all excellent schools, but they're not necessarily equally excellent.</p>

<p>Marny's advice really is best: talk to your pre-law advisor and see how this has been handled in the past. Hopefully he/she will have experience with study abroad grades.</p>

<p>Hi Blue- I agree that the .2 GPA is substantial, but at this point the LSAT score is really going to be the major factor in admissions. </p>

<p>so I guess Sam-- you should try to study hard and do the best you possibly can on the LSAT.</p>

<p>as it is already November and arrangements have been made for study abroad, it seems as though it is a done deal. I also do not think Samsonite should have 2nd thoughts about Study Abroad in China. It is a wonderful opportunity regardless of how it may affect his GPA.</p>

<p>what I might suggest to future "study abroad students" who are planning to apply to law school--</p>

<p>try to find out about the grading system abroad. Are the academics and grading in line with your regular school?? If not, might it have a negative affect on your GPA??</p>

<p>as I said, my kid was just lucky. We did not take any of this into consideration when she was looking into study abroad programs. She didn't even think her SA grades were counted towards Law school as they are not reflected in her school's GPA. Just dumb luck that it all worked out!!</p>

<p>Sam- I was just rereading some stuff from LSD re: study abroad. somone mentioned LSAC/LSDAS has a list of recognized foreign schools in which they accept transcripts. Also it was mentioned that if the school has a wierd grading system (i.e 20 point scale) they may not use the grades. So definitely check with LSAC and your law school / study abroad advisor!!</p>

<p>good luck!!</p>

<p>An update for anyone who's interested: </p>

<p>I spoke with an LSAC representative and this person said explicitly that if the time spent abroad was less than 1 year, and if the grades on the home transcript are noted as 'transfer credits,' than they will not be counted in the LSAC GPA. So in other words, as long as my grades explicitly say 'transfer' they will not matter (even if they show up on the home transcript). My plan is to get a statement in writing from my college that the grades will be listed as transfer grades and proceed with the study abroad as planned. Hopefully everything will work out. Hope this helps someone!</p>

<p>Thanks for the update. Have a wonderful time in China.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I spoke with an LSAC representative and this person said explicitly that if the time spent abroad was less than 1 year, and if the grades on the home transcript are noted as 'transfer credits,' than they will not be counted in the LSAC GPA. So in other words, as long as my grades explicitly say 'transfer' they will not matter (even if they show up on the home transcript).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm just wondering why they mark the cutoff as one year? I am in the same situation as you- I have a good GPA, but my grades for study abroad will most likely be lower because of the foreign grading system. Since I am abroad for the year, will they count the grades?</p>

<p>Also, does it matter if I am spending each semester in a different place? Since it is broken up, and I will be on a different grading system at both universities, will the grades still count?</p>

<p>lascelles- the best advise is to speak with your study abroad advisor and LSAC. My guess is that both programs will count and that each of the transcripts should be sent to LSAC/LSDAS for GPA conversion.
again, in my kids case, her transcript was issued through another NY college that sponsored her study abroad program- so she just forwarded to LSAC her home school code as well as the code from the other NY college.<br>
There also seems to be a list of foreign schools with their LSAC codes. I imagine that if a code is available, LSAC can easily receive the transcript from that institution. If there are no LSAC codes for the institutions you are attending, you really do have to check with your study abroad advisor and LSAC to find out how to proceed
good luck!!</p>