Study Abroad: Kids in dangerous places

Applying to College
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<p>Redcrimblue- the closing sentences of your post are spot on. IMO, the learning that happens just by setting foot out of the U.S. is tremendous.</p>

<p>We have lived and vacationed in "Islamic" countries for the past 11 years.
Sometimes it is a bit scary (when there are incidents such as bombings of hotels, etc.). However, I am much more worried about personal safety when I visit Los Angeles, and other large cities in the states, then when I am overseas. The thought of sending my kids to a large public high school in the U.S. gives me the creeps. Scary stuff happens all over the world.</p>

<p>Do register to get updates from the state department website. You can get updates on the current safety situation of various countries. </p>

<p>Anyone going to Jordan should visit Peta (think of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade). To be honest, I have not been to Jordan yet, but it is on my must-do list of places to go.</p>

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<p>I'm in Israel right now! </p>

<p>Yes, my parents were very concerned about my safety but after my birthright trip and lots of talking to with the administrative staff in my program, my mother said...okay... but wasn't entirely comfortable. She watched too much American media. I literally had to fight to convince her that Israel was far safer than the US because of all the security everywhere and that I was more likely to die from a crazy Israeli driver running over me than a suicide bomber. She warned me against taking buses but knew that I'd take them anyway because I'm a cheap college student and was used to living the city life from past summers in DC. (Now my aunt's offering to pay for the cabs for the rest of my time here). After a while, my parents calmed down after I made my own trips to Tel Aviv, Netanya, and Haifa and of course, their visit in April. My mother still worries a bit about the security but doesn't like to talk about it. Now she's concerned about me even coming home!!!</p>

<p>Jordan is certainly a fine place to be but your son needs to stay viligant about his surroundings- even I still need to be aware of any abandoned bags and suspicious characters near bus stops. Many of my friends in the program have visited Petra but that's just a tourist bubble.</p>

<p>Remember, the American media is bored and likes to exaggerate things. I encourage my family to ignore CNN which words headlines out of proportion. He will have a wonderful time in Jordan!</p>

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<p>I'll add this. I was educated at three Ivy League colleges, yet my most important year of education was as an exchange student in what was then West Berlin. </p>

<p>Observe local customs and dress, and do not criticize your host country's religious practices. Learn the language. Study it before you go and polish it when you are there. My son learned French before he went to France and my oldest daughter Spanish before helping build houses outside Quito. One of my two high school daughters is mastering Chinese; the other is a Latin scholar so not much hope there for further exposure :) </p>

<p>I remember the chagrin in my year abroad (which was before college) in confronting Americans who were loud, could not speak the language and dressed like foreigners. And this was in one of our closest cold war Allies, with great cultural similarities to America. How much more important are dress, language and comportment in a country without as much affinity as a Western European nation.</p>

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<p>"Amman is filled with almost a million refugees from Iraq, many of whom, very justifiably, HATE americans."</p>

<p>The overwhelming majority of them are secular, pro-Western who hate the U.S. (NOT Americans) because the U.S. decided to divide up their government by religious proclivity, and then turned it over to religiously oriented clique. </p>

<p>"I don't think it's unreasonable to worry more than I'd worry if he were going to, say, Virginia."</p>

<p>I do. The data don't lie. And the overall rates of murder and violent crime in the U.S. relative to Jordan (gathered by Interpol) don't lie either. </p>

<p>India is the country I know best. In a country with more than four times the population of the U.S., if I take ALL the people killed in train bombings, all the guerrilla killings, all the casualties in Kashmir, and all the gun deaths in the entire country, it still doesn't come out to one-fifth the number of gun-related deaths in the U.S. (or, by rate, roughly 1/25th of what we have here.)</p>

<p>I don't think it is even close. Students are at far greater risk in Virginia. (and that's not even counting auto-related deaths, or alcohol- or drug-related deaths among students).</p>

<p>(For the record, I'm biased: my college roommate was murdered one block from Harvard Yard. I haven't heard anything like that happening in ANY of the Middle Eastern countries I listed.)</p>

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<p>No murders in the Middle East?</p>

<p>We must read a different set of newspapers! :)</p>

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<p>No murders of American students in the Middle East. We read THE SAME newspapers. </p>

<p>(But, as already noted, the overall murder rate in Jordan, according to Interpol, is 40% lower than in the U.S. Also lower in Israel, where there were 173 murders in 2004.)</p>

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<p>I think the key is making sure your son asks, before departing for a different neighborhood our tourist site, for the inside information re: safety from the most trustworthy, conservative, insider advisors of his study program.<br>
My son studied in Israel and the program advisors gave careful advice each day, always very conservative. It's up to the students not to be wise-guys and think they know better than the program directors who are from the country. Don't just listen to what the other American kids say, either; they may have gone somewhere not recommended and come back unscathed. If it wasn't recommended and they went, well, they were lucky but that doesn't mean their experience negates the wise counsel of the program directors.
Also, it's the Jordanian program directors, not fellow Jordanian students, who will best advise. Jordanian students might be able to read the body language and situation better, so what's safe and doable for them might not translate for an American.
Just encourage your son to seek daily advice (not generalities) from the most senior Jordanian who is close to his program. Be very specific, saying, "I want to go to X and take Y road through Z neighborhood in a (bus, taxi). What do you think?" Then follow the answer. That is my advice. Then, try not to worry, or if you do, understand that worry is part of life in the Middle East. We're not used to it.</p>

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<p>An American student I hadn't heard about. (But, hey, my roommate was killed next to Harvard Yard, so go figure.) There are students killed in all of these countries (including Israel, there were several last year), though in total, likely fewer than in Virginia.</p>

<p>Of interest:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/01/23/EDGUIGQOOA1.DTL%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/01/23/EDGUIGQOOA1.DTL&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Crime is generally lower in totalitarian states, mini.</p>

<p>However, Jordan is NOT on the Travel warning list--and is --and has been--relatively safe. Despite political differences, it is important to understand the culutral differences. For example, as a rule, Jordanians and other Arabs hold hospitality in very very high regard. They embrace strangers and welcome them into their homes with incredible, sincere warmth. Your son should have a wonderful experience--particularily if he makes an effort to mix with Jordanians. My understadning is that American soliders on patrol are invited into Iraqi homes from time to time--such is the depth of hospitality.</p>

<p>But the key fact is that Jordon is not on the US travel warning list--which means you will be able to purchase travel insurance for your child. <a href="http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html&lt;/a> Keep an eye on that list if you have additional worries. In general, insurance companies only avoid extremely risky areas--they have a tolerance for moderate risk. both of my sons have visited Kenya in the past three years--the security in and around American business interests is intense but Nairobi appears relatively safe--away from western gathering points--during the day. Travellers must take precautions similar to the ones I took when I lived in Alphabet City in the 1980s.</p>

<p>My son is travelling in Africa doing research. His original itinerary was not insurable--and he adjusted his plans.</p>

<p>PS Make sure you have an evacuation clause in the insurance for health care.</p>

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<p>Let's put aside all of our cc opinionated/political views and hopefully get some straight answers from students or parents of students who have RECENTLY studied in Jordan. </p>

<p>My D plans to study in Jodan next year. I would like some REAL experiences about study there and especially relevant to a female (not to mention Jewish).</p>

<p>I am not interested in murder rate comparisons. I would like to hear about how the schools handle security; how much freedom kids have (and especially females) etc. </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>mini- for future reference ;)
when someone cites reasons of concern- instead of blowing them off , I have found that it is much more empathetic to ask exactly what their concerns are- & to help them formulate a plan to deal with them.
They may be very valid concerns, even though they may not be your own, but my impression is that when ( sorry to pick on the males- but I have noticed this with men more than women), * you* don't know how to respond/ know the answer/or otherwise made nervous in someway by the question- "you've" found that the best defense is a good offense & I do think it is offensive to try and make someone feel ridiculous for their worries.</p>

<p>I dont have firsthand knowledge of studying abroad.I think many places there are risks all over, whether from the environment or from the citizens and it doesnt hurt to be forewarned.</p>

<p>There are different risks & opportunities for men than there are for women & it is much different if you can casually pass as a native than if you stick out as if ** American** was tattooed across your forehead.</p>

<p>It isn't exactly a big plus to be easily identified as American. Not just an easy target to share your wealth, but an outlet for hostility.</p>

<p>Just from very casual interactions from immigrants to this area, it doesn't take long to see that there are those who view nativeborn Americans as rich, dumb and "easy".</p>

<p>As a caucasian woman, who dresses casually, by that I mean- according to the weather- not a dress code. I have found that just by trying to be "pretty", and to be "friendly" perhaps allowing a stranger to start a conversation on a bus or at a streetcorner, can be too much contact. Some cultures don't allow casual interaction between men and women, and even though the men who are immigrants, are coming into "my backyard", so to speak, they bring their judgments with them & have become hostile, sometimes dangerously so, because they apparently felt that I was "open", to them, when I thought I was just being friendly.</p>

<p>When you are in "their" backyard, and obviously stick out not only as a foreigner but as an American, it helps to be aware of their customs.
I think it is important to adopt the dress and behaviors of the country as much as possible, not just to get the most out of your stay, but to not offend</p>

<p>Even if you aren't even physically threatened, several of the kids I have known that traveled abroad have lost valuables/money through pickpockets or scam artists- which can be pretty tough- especially when the parents don't have the resources to duplicate everything they lost or even help them get an flight back home.
Its good to have backup plans.
<a href="http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/caution.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/caution.htm&lt;/a>
Ricksteves mostly deals with Europe but has some good tips for travelers anywhere</p>

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<p>Cheers - just re-read your post. not to be niave, but what is the point of travel insurance? thanks</p>

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<p>I'm Jewish and here's what it means, "don't go around advertising that you're Jewish."
First, it's somewhat impossible since somehow everybody figures it out anyway. </p>

<p>But if I had to try, I'd say to not wear clothing that's overt: necklaces with stars of david or any other imagery -- chai's, hamsas -- because these are all known symbols. </p>

<p>I'd suggest boys not wear skullcaps or fringes -- but that's ridiculous since I assume that anyone who does knows better than to register for classes in Jordan or Egypt.</p>

<p>So "not advertising you're Jewish" means make no reference to celebrating any holidays. Don't say your family sent you a Hannukah present, just say it was a present. If someone says, "we don't eat pork here because of hallal," just soak it in, don't reply cheerfully, "hey, my grandma doesn't eat pork, either!" Giveaway.</p>

<p>Basically, go underground and live like a Moranno (secret Jew under the Spanish Inquisition of the 1490's). Act like a spy. Just don't discuss any side-references to Jewish food, holidays. No Jewish jokes. Don't bring up little cute stories about your rabbi from back home. </p>

<p>I guess that's what it means "not to advertise it." I have serious concerns for Jewish students studying in most of the Middle East, although since there's a cold peace between Jordan and Israel, and Egypt and Israel, and there are Israelis travelling in those countries (but no reciprocated interest), then of all the countries, I hope that Jordan and Egypt are manageable for American Jewish students.</p>

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<p>nephew was in thailand last year during the coup. more scary was him getting sick over there.</p>

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<p>BTW, Parents who are traveling or living overseas should also register with the state department. Who knows, your child (or your parents) might need to get information about you or to you.</p>

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<p>Hmmm...as a parent of children who travel the globe independently, I can safely say that mine are not likely to arrogantly wander through dangerous spots just for the heck of it. My eldest son recently found himself in a hostile neighborhood, courtesy of a well-intentioned taxi driver. S1 went for a stroll in the neighborhood before he realized his presence was not appreciated. He returned to the guest house and booked alternate lodging in a more appropriate neighborhood for the following day. </p>

<p>On the other hand, he learned these lessons the hard way. He was mugged one night in Tanzania--walking home at night which is a no-no. He was 17.</p>

<p>Travel insurance covers health insurance for the trip (your US insurance won't cover illness abroad). It should also cover med vac out of Jordon to Europe or the US, in my opinion. It might also include evac insurance in the case of terrorism. </p>

<p>Proper insurance is not horrifically expensive.</p>

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<p>I haven't read all the posts (busy night for me) but my son spent last summer in Cairo and plans some future study abroad in the middle east. I would suggest the following :</p>

<p>know what plans are for evacuation in case of medical problems or unrest/terrorism in the area (think of lebanon last summer).</p>

<p>Student should be familiar with the culture (culture shock Jordan is a good book) and do their best to blend into the local culture, including adhereing to conservative customs. (for instance, some egyptian girls in Cairo dress very western in short skirts and tank tops -- American girls would do best to keep legs and arms covered, since that is the more conservative custom)</p>

<p>the coordinating program should be experienced and have good references -- check them out. Make sure that the company has experience in the city and country the student is travelling to.</p>

<p>make sure the student receives an orientation that covers appropriate conduct in the country and is mature enough to adhere to those suggestions. Not every student is ready to study abroad -- if your child likes to "push the envelope" and doesn't take directions from authority well , a study abroad program might not be a good choice.</p>

<p>understand how communications will work -- does the program have an emergency contact? how long to get ahold of a person in the country connected to the program? How will your student contact you? do they have multiple numbers of contacts in the country? have there been communications problems before?</p>

<p>I wouldn't hesistate to send my son to Jordan -- but he is male, can pass for a Syrian, speaks some Arabic and is very level-headed and listens to rules and obeys them -- I might think differently with another student.</p>

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<p>Another factor to consider is what safety precautions the university will take.</p>

<p>There were quite a few American students abroad in Lebanon when the most recent war began. Most Americans, including privileged people (like Anthony Bourdain and his film crew from the Travel Channel), had to wait for weeks for embassy help to get out via military transport.</p>

<p>Who got out first, the very next day? The kids from Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Those universities had contracted in advance for private security firms to protect their kids in an emergency. We're talking armed escorts coming to get the kids, chartered planes, the whole nine yards. A lot of the HYP kids didn't even know that they were protected this way until they heard the bombs and help showed up. </p>

<p><a href="http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/07/ivy_leaguers_le.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/07/ivy_leaguers_le.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It may not be fair, and it may not be PC, but when push comes to shove and there are bombs falling on your kid's dorm, the typical parent is going to be very glad to have this kind of insurance. (Parents on my college tours used to ask me whether the multibillion dollar endowments actually benefited students in any way...well, yes. There are some things money CAN buy.) I'd feel a lot more confident sending a child abroad if I knew that there was insurance covering emergency situations, whether that means escaping a war or a flying ambulance to a first-world hospital. I imagine that it's possible to buy such insurance yourself if the university program doesn't include it, though it must cost a fortune.</p>

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<p>I know this is off-topic, but I'm from India, and I was pretty shocked to read this:</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>I live in a much smaller city than Kolkata, down the same coast. I don't own ANY Indian traditional clothes, I've never faced any discrimination, and I don't know anyone who has, pretty much everyone these days wears western clothes. Sexual harassment - I've never experienced it, but then, someone mistook me for being ten years old a few days ago :(. I always thought India was pretty safe, though. Our family has hosted European girls who walked around in shorts, and no one said anything.</p>

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<p>CurlyFry,</p>

<p>I don't pretend to know much at all about India in any sort of depth, and it's pretty much guaranteed that what is true for one city will not hold in another. I'm not exactly sure what makes Kolkata different from your city in terms of the atmosphere and attitudes towards young, white women who are alone in the city, It's hard to generalize India as being safe or unsafe, but my sister heard from other foreigners that the biggest cities were the hardest for women to be in. As for traditional clothing vs. not, I think many women in certain parts of Kolkata do wear western clothing, but in other parts of the city Western clothing really does stand out, and white women wearing Western clothing are more likely to be targeted by men.</p>