<p>Japanese may be the most cloistered group on the planet! the social penalities for living abroad or marrying outside the race are so extreme. Not all Asians are so cloistered. Singaporeans are mixers. So are Ex-pat Koreans, Malaysians, Indians, Sri Lankans, Hong Kong Chinese, Red Chinese and Indonesians. Thais maybe less so. </p>
<p>Interestingly, most of my current clients are expat Asians from Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore.</p>
<p>cheers,</p>
<p>Well...I don't know how deep the stigma for living abroad is anymore. It seems to have relaxed quite a bit with this generation as more and more people spend time in Europe or North America.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind that MOST people who go abroad tend to have a more "worldly" mindset. My experiences have shown me that they're almost always the minority in a vast sea chock-full of cloistered-types...everywhere.</p>
<p>Go abroad, young man/woman!</p>
<p>"My experiences abroad and here in the US with internationals at my undergrad and grad schools has been that EVERYONE insulates themselves with comfort groups. It's almost unavoidable, it seems."</p>
<p>In my d's program, they can't. They all live, individually, with Italian families. They have to take a pledge not to use English, and the families the same. Courses are all taught in Italian. The orchestra is virtually all Italian students (though my d. says a couple of Viennese.) Classes at the university are almost all Italian students. Of course, it is a unique program (as far as I know, there aren't any other study abroad programs in Italy with as stiff entrance requirements.)</p>
<p>When I live in south India, I could go months without meeting a westerner.</p>
<p>mini,</p>
<p>That sounds like a great program. I wish more education abroad programs were like that.</p>
<p>My friend did a sabbatical spring semester in Prague. Both of her sons came with her, one of whom was a HS junior. I believe he was the only American in the HS there & joined their basketball team & traveled thru Europe with them. He learned a great deal & matured & got closer to his mom & brother as well.
I think my niece who went to London may have mainly hung around with Americans.
Yes, the program you describe, Mini, sounds ideal if it is to be more than a Euro-vacation.</p>
<p>"That sounds like a great program. I wish more education abroad programs were like that."</p>
<p>My nephew in the Duke program outside of Florence has the opposite experience. No Italian required, and they live only with Americans, in a big villa. But while, in my judgment, the experience isn't nearly as rich, there is still something to be said for "The Grand Tour" (though I think he'd do much better simply getting a job there.)</p>
<p>The first question that comes to mind is whether the universities you mentioned would even consider enrolling a visiting undergrad student? I do know that our son's college does have such an arrangement with Williams and Harvey Mudd that is specified in the college catalogue but lacking such institutional arrangements I doubt that enrollment in other colleges is very feasible.</p>
<p>So it seems that study abroad is the best option at this juncture.</p>
<p>But I have a contrarian prospective also. After all the struggle many students go thru to fine the "perfect fit", after settling into college life with new found friends, after establishing themselves academically in their department and in various clubs, why then the urge to take off abroad, thus sacrificing 1/8th to 1/4 of their time at the college of their dreams? Yeah I know and appreciate the possibility of broadening one's view of the world. But for many programs the study abroad students share segregated housing arrangements. And with vastly different educational "schemes"(thats a UK phrase) it is possilbe that students are making an academic sacrifice as well compared to a well thought out academic program at their own college.</p>
<p>Certainly there is a substantial benefit for improving one's foreign language skills when immersed in a foreign country. But I think that the conventional wisdom about study abroad otherwise generally inflates it benefits. And yes most students are able to look fondly on the experiences they had that semester or school year. But I look fondly upon the opportunities I have had to work and travel abroad and most students have a lifetime ahead of them to do the same.</p>
<p>I know that I am a bit of an iconoclast around these parts. But after all the precollege struggles to get into that dream college I find it curious that there is then such a clamor to chuck it for a semester or two.</p>
<p>Those are good points & there's nothing that says a student can't work out his/her own time abroad over a summer or after graduation instead of a term/year abroad. One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that many kids who do go abroad say that they feel "changed" by the experience & feel a bit "out of their element" when they come back & everyone else is doing the same-o same-o.</p>
<p>For my d., choosing the college with the best, most rigorous study abroad program was a major part of the criteria.</p>
<p>I think the best solution is to spend a year in a foreign country either after high school or after college and before grad school, but that's a pretty expensive option unless you are lucky with fellowships. I do agree with those who say try to find a program that doesn't ensconce you with too many other Americans. The fact that he speaks excellent French should be a big help.</p>
<p>To respond to the OP: studying abroad is an excellent idea, very educational, and sure to be a way to learn things you can't learn by reading books. </p>
<p>To various other participants: my observation, in the foreign countries I have lived in, is that expatriates group themselves by common language--which means that multilingual expatriates have the broadest social groups. Some expatriates are quite committed to learning the host country language, but many others are not. Someone who speaks a language spoken in many different countries will be able to make friends with many different expatriates. Such has been my observation, in one region of the world where I was an expatriate during two separate three-year stays.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But I have a contrarian prospective also. After all the struggle many students go thru to fine the "perfect fit", after settling into college life with new found friends, after establishing themselves academically in their department and in various clubs, why then the urge to take off abroad, thus sacrificing 1/8th to 1/4 of their time at the college of their dreams? Yeah I know and appreciate the possibility of broadening one's view of the world. But for many programs the study abroad students share segregated housing arrangements. And with vastly different educational "schemes"(thats a UK phrase) it is possilbe that students are making an academic sacrifice as well compared to a well thought out academic program at their own college.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's why I think it's reasonable for parents to set some expectations for a study abroad program. Good programs can provide educational opportunities that NO college or university can offer.</p>
<p>For example, my daughter toured a Nike factory in Shanghai this week and talked with plant managers on production in China. Now, she could take endless Economics courses on global production and not come away with the concrete first-hand glimpse into the realities underlying all that as she got this week.</p>
<p>Last week, she spent several days living in a government "Socialist rural village" outside of Beijing with organized sessions with the village leaders. Is there any way to duplicate that glimpse into the rural/urban dichotomy dominating the developing world from a classroom in the United States?</p>
<p>The week before that, she was given a tour of the center of Chinese contemporary art in Beijing. Her tour guide was one of the two student organizers of an unsanctioned public art exhibition at the end of the Cultural Revolution in the 1970s -- an exhibit that drew 200,000 viewers, forced this gentleman into exile for several decades, and marked a key turning crumbling point in the end of Cultural Revolution restrictions. She could study art history and contemporary art for a dozen semesters and not get that kind of exposure to the real power of art. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.magicalurbanism.com/?p=155%5B/url%5D">http://www.magicalurbanism.com/?p=155</a></p>
<p>Last month, she spent two days seeing the extremes of "ecology" in Buenos Aires -- a day at the official waste disposal/landfill operation and a day with the Cartoneros, a sanctioned group of people who make their living collecting and separating trash for recycling.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.magicalurbanism.com/?p=149%5B/url%5D">http://www.magicalurbanism.com/?p=149</a>
<a href="http://www.magicalurbanism.com/?p=147%5B/url%5D">http://www.magicalurbanism.com/?p=147</a></p>
<p>And two different days touring shanty towns in Buenos Aires:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.magicalurbanism.com/?p=150%5B/url%5D">http://www.magicalurbanism.com/?p=150</a></p>
<p>I can't imagine how much better prepared she will be for understanding issues that are global in scope. Reading about them is one thing, but so abstract compared to actual first-hand experiences. I have no doubt at all that she is learning more this semester than during any other semester in college, perhaps more than all the other semesters combined.</p>
<p>Hooray for study abroad! :D I'm doing my own stint overseas next semester in New Zealand (University of Auckland) and really can't wait. It's going to be so awesome and I'm really glad it worked out, since it can be quite a hassle for science majors to do so somtimes...</p>