I was curious if anyone knows about studying abroad for the purpose of learning a language? I know that intensive language programs exist and I have read a bit about doing one, but I was curious if anyone has had experience.
HelloI am focusing right now on doing Spanish, possibly in Spain, but I am not at all set on that. The company I will probably work for, will have interned for them 3 summers after this coming internship, has places all over the world so any common language will do. Spanish, Russian, Chinese, French, etc…
I took two years of Spanish in high school, but none in College, but that could change the next couple semesters if I pick a language soon.
Definitely learn it in the native environment, not just for the capability to speak it, but for the cultural experience. You will be astonished at what you discover.
I have had a couple of excellent experiences learning languages abroad. It’s awesome. You will learn a lot. If you make a few extra efforts, you will learn a ton. The opportunities to hear and speak a foreign language when you are in a country where the language is spoken are just unbeatable. It’s also a heck of a lot of fun and you will learn quite about the culture, even if you don’t try to (but it’s better to try to).
Usually, people who learn languages abroad end up in language schools or other programs where they have four classes per day, five days a week. It sounds like a lot, but it’s so much fun that time flies.
It’s fun because you end up meeting people from all over the world, so your classmates and roomates will be from a whole bunch of different countries - so the learning goes on way beyond the classroom.
One time I studied in Salamanca (in Spain) and my roomates were a Japanese woman, a Brazilian girl, and a Korean guy. The Koreans didn’t speak much English, and I speak zero Korean, so we Always spoke in English. And I ate tons of Korean food, which I learned to love!
Have a peek at http://www.studyabroadinspain.com. They list Spanish schools like the one I went to, as well as university language programs, which are pretty much the same.
The two years of Spanish you already have will make it eaiser for you to adjust when you are abroad, and it will also help you to learn a lot more (and faster) since you are not starting from zero.
I believe conventional wisdom is that you will gain much more from immersion when you have a least a little bit of formal learning under your belt. Knowing basic grammar and vocabulary will help you to process what you learn, and not waste time at the “where is the train station?” level.
There’s no need to go abroad to learn your target language. I taught myself Japanese through immersion, without textbooks (in India, no less) and have yet to visit Japan. No need for grammar; you learn it as an infant would, and much of your studying will just be watching TV, etc.
Go to the country to experience the country, don’t waste time there getting bogged down learning the language .
Check out fluentinthreemonths.com and alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/about; the latter can be applied to any language.
No offence, but if you haven’t been to Japan how can you know how your Japanese is? Can you read a newspaper without problems? Can you follow Japanese films easily?
I talk with many native Japanese friends over Skype and even teach them English. I can’t read whole newspapers yet but I can certainly pick out chunks of text. I can fully read raw manga (Naruto, One Piece, Gantz, etc.) and watch raw anime. I can watch films and generally understand at least 60%; sometimes as much as 90%. I got a 670 on my SATII because I stupidly spent too much time on one question and didn’t finish the paper (this sounds like a sucky excuse but I assure you it’s true). I passed the JLPT N4 in July and took the N3 in December.
My immersion is still ongoing. I have a long way until fluency, and I expect to reach it within two more years.
That is pretty impressive for someone self-teaching, but it doesn’t sound like you’re at a very high standard to be honest. JLPT level 3 is very basic: even level 1 is considered by many to be a starting point for true fluency (as opposed to just being ‘jouzu’). How many Kanji do you know, are you dependent on furigana? You certainly can’t pick up Kanj though “immersion”, since the Japanese learn them by rote in school.
I don’t mean to say you are bad at Japanese, you have obviously learned a lot. But you’re not exactly in a position to be dispensing language advice.
I started in December 2013. 1700+ jouyou kanji meanings, ~1000 meanings+ readings, furigana not needed but are helpful sometimes. The kanji I do learn with both active learning and passive immersion (e.g. setting all my websites and software to Japanese and seeing new kanji on familiar icons). There are ways to learn them far more efficiently than how they’re learned in Japan.
And I’m not just advising OP based on my experience, I’m drawing from language learners who have completed languages to native fluency and whose advice I follow myself, like those on the links I posted (and people I know IRL). I don’t pretend to have “mastered” Japanese or anything; it’s just a hobby and I certainly do have much to learn.
Also, N1 is quite fickle (from what I’ve heard, correct me if I’m wrong). Many people pass it without actually being very good at Japanese, while other people who are actually fluent get stuck at the apparently obtuse , rather classical readings. I’ve showed sample questions to Japanese friends of mine and they were a bit confused by them. The friends that could understand everything were the ones that took classical calligraphy and writing in school. The JLPT itself is admittedly not a very good yardstick.
avix, there is no substitute for coping with the environment. Talking on skype with friends simply is not a substitute. Try asking for directions (correctly) only to meet blank stares because they can’t believe proper Japanese is coming out of your mouth. I’m sorry to say it, but you are deluding yourself.
I would go for it! I personally am going to South Korea this summer to experience how the culture, people, and just everything is like. I will be going as a tourist but later returning as a student. I am planning in studying abroad once I transfer to a school that offers my destination and classes. I have met lovely people who have come for a yr to learn English and it was awesome seeing them improve. I want to do the same since it inspired me.
@avix215 I see where you’re coming from because I taught myself how to read Hangul and a lot of the basic language I know now but it isn’t the same as actually being there and using it consistently. What’s cool about going abroad is that you cannot “take a break” from the language and you are forced to learn in order to improve and dominate the language.
The substitute for the environment is one that you build yourself. You learn the language yourself, and then go to the country to experience the country and use and improve the language. I feel that learning the language there itself is a bit redundant. I imagine you think I just learn it by sitting at home and studying, but that’s not the case. I realize it’s not as “organic” as you would like, but it really is just a pale mimicry for those of us who can’t visit the country, and it works.
Again, these are not MY ideals. These are methods and lifestyles that I have picked up from others, and they work well for me since I cannot physically go to Japan.
If I am deluding myself, then so is an entire generation of enthusiasts, retirees, professional businesses, and researchers who live off of immersion.
Also, could you elaborate on the directions bit? Wasn’t very clear to me.
@Hiitsnaomi there is no break in language immersion. There’s a motivational quote, “the only difference between you and a baby is that the baby has no escape route.”
The point of immersion is to reduce the escape route as much as possible and constantly engage in the language, while living a normal life beneath this layer. E.g. Japanese media only,no consuming English movies/songs/shows. There is no off switch. Play time= work time. Some of the more (fanatically) determined even immerse themselves during sleep.
While young, we learn languages from people, or more accurately, from sentences that people say. The brain pieces together words and patterns to deduce syntax and build vocabulary. We don’t learn what the past perfect tense is as toddlers: we just know how to use it. Immersion makes up for the rather significant lack of native Japanese speakers around me. People are only required while learning a language to glue together the words while speaking; a final polish.
Currently studying abroad in Spain, although I’m only a senior in high school. As far as language immersion goes, I would definitely recommend looking for programs offering a host family if possible. I meet a lot of university students and expatriates in Barcelona, and most of them say language acquisition is much more difficult if their flatmates aren’t as motivated/at the same level. I find that students from countries in a different sphere of influence are more likely to have a basic level of English rather than Spanish. In other parts of the world like Asia and Eastern Europe it’s much more common to pick up English as a second language rather than a Romance language; I am not exactly “immersed” with these kinds of students, because many of them arrive with no Spanish background whatsoever, and for basic communication needs they tend to default to English. If you get stuck with roommates that are either unable/unwilling to speak your target language, this could prove to be detrimental to the immersive environment you’re looking for. That being said, it’s really great to have other students in your age group that you can relate to. Students study abroad from all over the world so it’s also a great way to make connections that you never would have formed otherwise.
Host families usually avoid these issues. My current host family speaks Catalan with each other but Spanish with me, but not all families are as accommodating. If you’re dead-set on Spanish steer clear of Galicia, Catalonia, and the rural parts of the Basque Country.
Your two years of high school Spanish should be sufficient to at least get you started. I had an extensive background in the language before coming to Spain with trips to Guatemala and Colombia, 5 years in middle school/high school, and AP credit, but since arriving in Spain I haven’t made nearly as much progress as some other students. The ones that have the most to learn always make the most progress. As long as you have a foundation in your target language, you should be able to progress rapidly with no trouble.
As for the value of language immersion, I don’t believe complete mastery and fluency is possible without immersing yourself at least once. In the program I’m studying with, everyone and their mother had straight A’s in Spanish in school. Some even went as far as to call themselves fluent before arriving, yet they were nowhere near language mastery. If you’re serious about picking up a language, I would definitely go abroad for it.
Avix, It’s fine to study the language yourself before you go live somewhere, but you will find that what you study and what you need to do can be very very different things. I suspect that you have learned the polite forms of speech in certain situations.
Re the directions story. I was living in Japan and had studied the language for over a year in the US. I had reasonably good comprehension and could express myself clearly, as I did with my host family, in the normal polite forms. One day I was at Shinjuku station looking for a bus stop, among about 80. I stopped 2 young men to ask directions, but they just stared at me blankly and shook their heads. As I thanked them and walked away, one said to the other, “it sounded like he was asking for bus 68.” The other nodded and said, “that’s what I thought, too.” But they still didn’t offer help. As many had explained to me, it appears that they refused to understand because they couldn’t believe a gaijin could speak Japanese. Every single day, you are confronted with situations like that if you live in a foreign environment.
@alcibiade nope. I have near complete mastery over the forms- remember, I practice with Japanese teenagers and learn from raw media (everything from black-and-white movies to modern anime).
I am well aware of the various “gaijin phenomena”. Again, I have learnt from people who first learnt the language to near fluency and then moved to Japan. Many people have noted the quirks of living there.
I understand that there are some things that need 100% realistic immersion and 100% understanding of the language. I understand that. All I’m saying is that you don’t need to go to the country to reach the other 99%.
Take the example of Khatzumoto (http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/about), who learned it in 18 months while majoring in CS in Utah, and then immediately landed a job in Tokyo. And it’s not just him, although he is one of the major proponents of artificial immersion. Through his site and other similar sites, hundreds and thousands of people have done it.
The site is exceptionally interesting to go through, and contains many nuggets not even related to language learning. It can be applied to many things and many other languages- actually, this specific method was devised by a group of Poles who learnt English to fluency before ever leaving Poland. (http://antimoon.com/)
There’s a HUGE community for this kind of thing now, because of the explosion of the Internet. You couldn’t have hoped to immerse yourself twenty years ago, whereas now you can do it with a few clicks.