<p>I think making kids volunteer is something that's happening because many parents don't volunteer - it's just not something they think of as normal. When I was growing up, my parents always volunteered and I did also, I wasn't even aware of it. Both parents helped with scouts and my Dad was (is) a member of Kiwanis or Lions. Groups like those are in trouble now because people my age don't join. </p>
<p>Many people think because they "work" full time that they don't have time to volunteer. Why is anyone suprised that kids think of volunteering as something that they don't have to do when that's the same attitude as their parents?</p>
<p>So what if its cynical? If someone spends hours helping someone to pad a resume, everyone is helped.</p>
<p>I think volunteering cynically can help others, but as kathiep reveals by implication, it often does not go far enough to fill the needs. Many people are in need of help and are unable to receive it because granting them assistance may take a lot of time while presenting no apparent benefit to the cynical student. The cynic would perhaps think the time would be better spent serving in a program likely to produce compensation in the form of a colleges attention. I fear if cynicism takes deeper root, increasing numbers of people will suffer because they will be overlooked for higher profiled and glitzier charities.</p>
<p>It seems to me the motive of volunteering should spring from a sense of our own frailty. We serve the needy because, being as human as they are, we can identify with their needs and therefore wish to ease them. I think volunteering fueled by this perspective will always be more effective than cynicism where the long-term health of our society is concerned. But since the stakes are so high and since colleges are giving such large bonuses for volunteerism, I understand cynicism and its usage here.</p>
<p>You know, when kids are required to volunteer a certain number of hours in order to graduate from high school, it's not exactly a surprise that they only do it because they have to.</p>
<p>My question about volunteering in general is "why should it be necessary?" It's all very nice to feed the homeless, but how about actually solving the problem by finding them safe places to live? Should the social worker who is being paid to work with poor mothers be expected to volunteer her time on another cause? What about the president of Costco or Starbucks, both companies that employ workers with "just" a high school education and give them a working wage and health care insurance? Should they be expected to volunteer, when growing their companies does a great deal for the local economy?</p>
<p>
[quote]
By "padding" they simply mean the volunteer work was undertaken not out of a desire to make the world a better place, but to increase their own chances of getting in to a better place.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How is this any different from people who take extra classes or get an extra degree in order to "increase their chances of getting" a better job?</p>
<p>But there is everyday volunteering that will never be solved by government or just by giving money. Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts need active and interested adults. Helping your next door neighbor shovel their driveway or rake their leaves, maybe they don't have kids nearby, is that too much to ask? How about teaching Sunday School or being in charge of the pot luck supper? </p>
<p>And yeah, the social worker or the Presidents of Costco and Starbucks or the work at home Mom should be volunteering. The thing about volunteering is that it's not for just one kind of person, it's something that we should all do because it's the right thing to do. Not just coercing students to do it for the way it looks.</p>
<p>There are big issues like the homeless and then there are everyday things like coaching little league, organizing community days. If this generation of kids AND parents doesn't get the message that both their time and their money is needed, well, it's just kind of sad to think about..</p>
<p>I feel sorry for students who think of community service a little more that padding a college resume. Our son's community service was centered around our church's youth group, with the culmination being the annual 9 day mission project.</p>
<p>Community service focusing on our society's poor and outcast is a wonderful classroom which teaches many lessons never to be forgotten. I know because I have gone on them for many years as an adult advisor. On just one mission project, a homeless shelter called Clairvaux Farm in rural Maryland our kids learned that residents there were as a result of domestic violence, job loss and emotional/substance abuse issues, each in about equal measure. After a day, they learned that 100's of cockroaches scurrying about a resident dormatory floor was no biggie and that boric acid did the trick. Eating three meals each day with the residents, our kids soon found that they were funny, generous, polite, well spoken.....uh, just like us. Our kids learned that hanging a door is not as simple as it looks, that mixing and floating cement is hard work, that poison ivy loves growing around a split rail fence being repaired, that an evening jamming with a few residents under the stars was more fun that any rock concert could possibly be, that love can be expressed by a resident making a bead braclet for each of us, that when repainting the interior of two dormatories the hardest work is moving the residents property out of the way, that building a deck is a snap if you have good plans and power tools, and on and on.</p>
<p>At the end of our week Clairvaux Farms residents participated in our evening worship, shared in communion and helped us plant a tree as a memorial to a graduated senior high who was killed in an auto accident earlier that year.</p>
<p>Yes, I do feel deeply sorry for students who look upon community service as mere resume padding, something to get out of the way.</p>
<p>I just don't "get" students who "only" do community service to "pad" their resumes. It seems to me that these students may not have role models in their lives who perform community service as an expected responsiblity to one's fellow humans (or animals, for that matter). As in almost all instances, children model their behavior after their parents. Parents who serve will raise children who serve.</p>
<p>Shoveling your neighbor's walk is not volunteering, it's being a good neighbor. And coaching a soccer team or being a boy scout leader isn't volunteering, it's helping your own kids. (The only coaches I know who don't have kids on the team are being paid.)</p>
<p>Perhaps my definition of "volunteering" and that of others differ. I believe VERY strongly in working in the community to build a stronger community--but I don't believe that involves clocking hours and forcing kids to do something--anything--to graduate.</p>
<p>I also firmly believe that the best way to help any community is to create jobs in that community. Hence, I'd really rather our business leaders spent their time doing that instead of feeling that they "should" go coach a soccer team. Maybe they should just pay a coach, if that's what they want to do.</p>
<p>"You know, when kids are required to volunteer a certain number of hours in order to graduate from high school, it's not exactly a surprise that they only do it because they have to."</p>
<p>Most kids start out going to school, brushing their teeth, going to church. being polite, etc. only because they have to, too. Many if not most people, however, by doing those things, come to like them and make those activities a permanent part of their lives. If they weren't initially made to do such things, however, they probably never would have bothered.</p>
<p>When I taught college, I used to require students to do a total of one hour a semester of community service of their choice for each hour that my course was worth. Thus, if they were taking a 3 credit hour course from me, they'd do 3 hours of community service, and write a few paragraphs about what they learned from the experience.</p>
<p>For many, it was their first experience doing community service, and many wrote that they had reluctantly and resentfully gone to do the community service, and then found out by doing the service what a pleasure it is to help others.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, in some places, people consider community service as being something that only criminals do as part of their punishment. There are many parents who don't do any community service and don't bring up their kids to do any. Unless the schools require such service or unless they break the law, those young people don't get any first hand knowledge about what it's like to voluntarily make a positive difference in the world.</p>
<p>I wish kids would volunteer because it is the right thing to do, its fun, its helpful, and afterwards, you do feel good.</p>
<p>But, if it takes some prodding, for whatever reason, school, applications, then it is better than not doing any at all</p>
<p>I know kids that started out grumbling and groaning, but after a couple of times, couldn't wait to do it again</p>
<p>Those that continue to grumble, either haven't found a good service match, or are just a bit selfish</p>
<p>As someone said- most kids wouldn't eat their veggies, brush their teeth, clean their room, do their homework, exercise, unless we did some prodding</p>
<p>We do lots of service work and have met some great people, and most kids do get into it once they start</p>
<p>"it would be almost impossible for a student to be negatively influenced by doing 'too much community service.'"</p>
<p>Well there is a testable hypothesis. Our state requires community service as a high school graduation requirement - and for prisoners. I asked if my son could volunteer to read The Fountainhead but that is apparently not what Principal Toohey had in mind.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Forced volunteerism can have a counterproductive effect. I've actually seen more kids turned off than I've seen turned on to community service by our district's mandate.
[/quote]
I would wholeheartedly agree with this statement. One cannot legislate love or command caring. Mandatory volunteering is oxymoronic.</p>
<p>My own son had his affiliation with NHS involuntarily ended because he accidentally failed to turn in some paperwork documenting his community service hours by a specific deadline. Never mind that he DID the service.....<em>sigh</em></p>
<p>The whold mandatory nature of the service work rubbed him the wrong way. The fact is that people contribute to society in many, many ways. The research physician who is holed up in his laboratory studying a topic related to his OWN interests may benefit society in truly significant ways down the line. </p>
<p>My son actually resisted the temptation to "pad" his resume with service activities, but his intense passion for his individual interests came though loud and clear. Everyone should not have to "serve" in exactly the same way.</p>
<p>I'm the co-author of this study and am glad to see it's prompted such a good discussion. </p>
<p>A couple of things. First, while this finding seems obvious (and in many ways it is) much of the literature on youth and civic engagement doesn't acknowledge it. So while we don't think we have discovered the wheel here, many who study how young people get involved in civic life have not acknowledge how closely linked service is to getting into college. </p>
<p>Resume padding is the term young people themselves used. What was most surprising was not only how widespread it was, but the degree to which kids who were applying to non-selective colleges felt they also "had" to do service.</p>
<p>One can always find exceptions and we acknowledged them in the study: young people who were genuinely altruistic, who were serving their community, who genuinely enjoyed doing the work. Often they were minority youth who had good college prospects, but also had strong ties to their particular communities. </p>
<p>I'm not so sure that doing service for any reason builds long term commitment. It's not clear. There are some studies from the 50s and 60s that show this, but this is a different world and when service becomes virtually mandatory for college admission, something is lost. Some of my students here at Madison, most of whom did a fair amount of service in high school, say they were burned out and plan to pick it up at some time in the future. </p>
<p>is coaching a youth soccer team volunteering if you don't have a family member on the team? I, along with a friend, coached a youth soccer team Junior year of high school. Many of my friends here at school coach youth sports, mainly basketball and soccer. My service fraternity counts these hours as volunteer work, as does the IB program. I could keep coaching youth sports if I wanted (I have many friends that do), but in college I have decided to focus on tutoring (elementary school) instead, though I do participate in other projects like Escort (call if you want someone to walk you around campus at night). I also volunteered my time in the summer at home before I went back to school, 9 hours a day with my former high school band. It means a lot to me when the kid I tutored last semester talks to me when he sees me in the hall, even though I'm working with a different class this semester.</p>
<p>audiophile</p>
<p>it seems to me that most IB kids have no problem finishing those service requirements. I stopped recording them after I made my 150, but I was easily up over 400, and I know many others who were the same. Though I do have one friend who didn't get his diploma because he didn't do the hours. I would recommend your D find out if her school has a chapter of Alpha Phi Omega if she is going to be serious about continuing volunteer work.</p>
<p>I think that one of the benefits of volunteering is that people become aware of problems. Sometimes, it may just mean they try to avoid that problem themselves. Maybe a day of physical labor will give kids more respect for people who do "menial" jobs. Maybe it means they will write a check that they might not have written to help an organization that does help. Maybe it means they will vote for a school bond issue or for the candidate who promises to do something about overcrowded schools or glass strewn playgrounds...Maybe the young person who spends a day working at the local nursing home and sees how lonely some of the residents are will pick up the phone and call his or her own grandparent. Maybe the teen ager who spends some time in a poor inner city school will turn into a small business owner who makes a point of hiring some teens for after school jobs or the corporate hot shot that convinces the board of directors to institute a program to help pay employees' college tuition.</p>
<p>Sure it's better if volunteering builds a life long habit. But I don't think you can jump to the conclusion that if young people don't continue to volunteer it's been a waste of time. Volunteering can change our attitudes and our values.</p>
<p>" Some of my students here at Madison, most of whom did a fair amount of service in high school, say they were burned out and plan to pick it up at some time in the future. "</p>
<p>And they very well may do that. Just because they aren't volunteering now doesn't mean that they won't later.</p>
<p>I don't know whether this is true, but I once heard of research that indicated that if a person had not tried an activity by age 25, they were unlikely to ever try that activity. If that's the case, then there would be clear advantages to introducing kids to volunteering.</p>
<p>I know that people who come from places like the inner cities where volunteering usually is equated only with court-mandated service, it seems that very few people volunteer except for at their churches. Inner city students are unlikely to be college bound, and thus aren't likely to do community service to pad their resumes. It may be that this lack of doing volunteer work out of self interest also ends up meaning that few volunteer later and their communities as a whole don't view volunteer work as something that's admirable.</p>
<p>"is coaching a youth soccer team volunteering if you don't have a family member on the team? "</p>
<p>I think that it's volunteering even if one has a family member on the team. Good coaches aren't just helping their own kids, they are helping the whole team. </p>
<p>No parent has to coach just because of having a kid who wants to play soccer. The parent always could rely on other parents or put their kid into another league. </p>
<p>Similarly, most parents who volunteer at their kids' schools aren't there just helping their own kids. They do lots of things to benefit others' kids. I know that when I was president of my son's parent-teacher organization, I went far out of my way to get things done that often had no relationship at all to my son. This included addressing issues for kids whose parents didn't bother to get involved.</p>
<p>I've been a longtime volunteer in educational things, including at schools and programs that my sons did not attend. I think that many people who volunteer with their kids' schools have similar backgrounds, and aren't just there to selfishly address their kids' needs.</p>
<p>From dmd "And coaching a soccer team or being a boy scout leader isn't volunteering, it's helping your own kids. (The only coaches I know who don't have kids on the team are being paid.) </p>
<p>and the rebuttal...
"Is coaching a youth soccer team volunteering if you don't have a family member on the team? I, along with a friend, coached a youth soccer team Junior year of high school."</p>
<p>Which is just what I was going to say. Because many parents are not volunteering there are people like the 3 adult volunteers in my son's boy scout troop (including the scoutmaster) who no longer have kids in scouts but hold significant roles and without their support, the troop would most likely fold. When my son was in kindergarten his elementary school had a festival where 80% of the profit went to an outside vendor because no one wanted to volunteer to run the stands or organize the event. My Dad at age 76 is the president of his library's booster group because no one else will do it. </p>
<p>As jonri alluded to, if these same parents had had a positive volunteering experience as a teen perhaps they would be more likely to step up as an adult. My daughter, like Jonri, is also a young adult volunteer. She tutors at a maximum security facility for juveniles while she's at college. </p>
<p>And, you know what? Those of us that volunteer are the ones reaping the benefits. It feels great to know that you helped make a difference.</p>
<p>" Those of us that volunteer are the ones reaping the benefits. It feels great to know that you helped make a difference."</p>
<p>Amen!</p>
<p>I also think that when schools and parents force kids to volunteer, that's not torturing kids, that's giving them a gift that they will use and treasure for the rest of their lives. Few things in life are better than seeing that one can use one's talents and abilities to make the world a better place.</p>
<p>I also think that when schools and parents force kids to volunteer, that's not torturing kids, that's giving them a gift that they will use and treasure for the rest of their lives.</p>
<p>Indeed. Still, I cant help but feel discomfort with the idea of forcing people to volunteer. It seems oxymoronic and draconian. And when colleges compensate students for participating in forced volunteerism, it seems to me we are not dealing with volunteerism at all. Perhaps it can become volunteerism later, but Im not yet convinced of this. I think kathiep nails this issue very well. Volunteerism is probably most effectively transmitted across generations when it is modeled by parents and when it is such a part of a childs life that he/she does not think he/she is volunteering.</p>