<p>U.S. Census data shows an increase in population in California from 1994 to 2004 caused by immigration. Consider that these statistics don't even show a fraction of the truth since illegal immigrants have reasons not to show up on reports. Don't read things into my words; I am not hostile to immigrants. Unfortunately, any city, state, or country, any government, and any culture can only handle a moderate or slow increase in population (not always, but often this population increase is made up of people with limited skills and educations). California has been faced with a dramatic increase in the past ten to twenty years. California cannot provide services for all the people within its borders at the same (quality) rate as in the past, nor at the same rate as in most other states. Looking at other factors, such as the teachers, schools, the governor, students, and parents, is related, as these are all parts of the problem; however, the underlying population increase exacerbates all these other problems. All those problems cannot be fixed without absorbing recent immigration into the state (we need time). The huge wave of recent immigration has put all California citizens at risk, but most of all those least able to absorb lessening of services: the poor, the elderly, and the disabled.</p>
<p>Mr. B maybe California should realign our CC fees and teacher pay with the rest of the nation. California teachers get paid more than teachers in other states even accounting for cost of living. CC fees in California are well bellow the national average by thousands of dollars per student per year.</p>
<p>Well, i go to a private school, but my brother goes to a public school in los angeles. Because of HUGE deficits, my brother's teacher can barely get enough supplies to even pass out homework because paper and copy machine has been restricted to a 1000 copies a month. now dat might seem alot of copies, but if u consider that a teacher in his school teaches 200 students, thats about 5 copies for each student a MONTH. and the teachers teache AP! and everyone knows that handouts and study guides are your best buddy to pass AP Exam. Its getting ridiculous.</p>
<p>VTBoy - In many parts of this country you can buy a house for two or three times what a teacher earns. In California, the average house goes for 6, 7 or more times a teachers average salary. If teachers were overpaid there would be a rush to service instead there are shortages in most states especially in difficult school districts - where milton friedman when you need him to explain this? Accordingly if you would align teacher pay to cost of living, I know the teachers in LA and San Francisco would raise a statute in your honor...so would the teachers in Hawaii, where the pay is even worse.</p>
<p>CC fees are less in California and they should be lowered everywhere. The jobs you can get with an AA degree used to be obtained with a high school diploma (which was free.)</p>
<p>California and the nation can afford to do better by education - especially the education of children raised in low income and minority districts.</p>
<p>"California and the nation can afford to do better by education"</p>
<p>Well Mr. B. what is your proposal? </p>
<p>It is obvious that you consider that California's expense-per-pupil-per-year of $10,000 mark is not sufficient and that more money is needed. In Texas, the property taxes are established at an annual rate of about 3% of the appraised value, with a few deductions for main residences. This means that the taxes for a $400,000 are about 11,000 and a $500,000 about 13,000. How much do you pay in California, and are you prepared to pay a similar amount on the appraised value of your home? </p>
<p>The real estate in California is a true dichotomy: while it hurts starting families -and starting teachers- it also has provided for huge nest eggs for retiring families. People who started buying houses at the onset of the inflationary period have done well or extremely well. </p>
<p>Since charity starts at home, are you endorsing a plan to increase the taxes in California, be it state or property? I realize that Californians would prefer to turn their sight towards federal sources -like the UC system does so well. If you want more money, it will have to come from internal sources, as California does extremely well in federal contributions -quite contrary to what was intimated in this thread. Since California is not the only state that has to cope with large immigrant populations, it may not be unwise to see what the other states are doing -mostly improving their school systems. Those are the states that Californians like to deride for being backwater: as one of my dear friends on CC likes to say, there is more culture in a jar of yoghurt in California than in the whole State of Texas. While Texas is hardly a model in the management of education, they are making progress while attempting to REDUCE the spending by eliminating the RObin Hood plan that sends money from rich districts to poor districts -which has the same impact as giving more rum to a drunken sailor: the sailors likes it but he won't remember it the next morning. </p>
<p>In Texas, we have reached the absolute limit in property taxes, and this only to find out that more money is not necessarily the answer. Poor schools have now olympic swimming pools, recreation centers, thousands of computers that are gathering dust, not to forget many sets of football uniforms. In contrast richer districts have had to close their "luxurious" accomodations. Playing musical chairs with the budgets did not do much. As long as school districts can justify to spend more money on administration and perks than on teaching, the problems will exist. Anyone interested in the fact that money is not the big issue should read about the scandalous Dallas ISD where hordes of administrators earn salaries akin to the best corporate jobs and where perks for a few chosen ones reign supreme. The answer to why teachers have to go on retreat to Hawaii has always eluded me, but some seem to consider a visit to the Aloha state to be essential to raise the scores of students! </p>
<p>Oh well, back to the point of this message: are Californians ready to make the necessary sacrifices by paying MORE? </p>
<p>So Mr.B, what is your plan to find extra money in YOUR state?</p>
<p>Xiggi, first I would agree with you that in education (like any large organization) there is waste. A first place to look is waste reduction and sometimes when it is politically acceptable that is a sufficient payoff. I am sure that either of us could go into a large district and find things to cut from the budget or tasks that were more meaningful for some employees. Of course since I am reluctantly allowed to spend $250 a year for my classroom I don't think I have wasted too much money in my room. (less than $2.50 a student for supplies including tissues, paper towels, paper, pens, ect.) How do I do it, Oh thats right, I spend more than that out of my own pocket.</p>
<p>California does not get its share of federal taxes back and that is true of most of the larger urban (Democratic) states. I don't know where Texas is with that statistic. </p>
<p>California's proposition 13 is not a great plan by any reasonable standard. People who would like to sell their homes and move into smaller digs are discouraged because they are given such an unfair tax incentive to stay where they are. Young families are saddled with a disproportionate tax share as is any new home buyer. Keeping the tax break to allow people to stay in their house is noble but as you pointed out many homeowners "recieved hugh nest eggs" and that should not be at the expense of others.</p>
<p>Real property taxes are one source of revenue as are vehicle taxes and developement assessments. I wouldn't oppose a tax increase on real estate especially second homes and when there are windfall profits from real estate using public dollars. I notice whenever I drive east I spend money on tolls to drive on interstate highways. Maybe highway taxes or better payments from casinos or other developments might be a partial answer.</p>
<p>I certainly wouldn't mind an increase in income taxes for everyone instead of targeting the tax reductions used by teachers to reduce the impact of our classroom spending. Reducing the payments to companies that don't even pay taxes in Ca would also generate some cash; as would flushing out the out of state students who take unfair advantage of our instate tuition.</p>
<p>I am not a legislator, but I agree every citizen should understand budgetary considerations, my job is teaching. There is a severe shortage of counselors, librarians and resources that are desparately needed in our schools - Very few Ivy Graduates are planning to come into teaching and that says a lot about the condition of this profession and its future.</p>
<p>If we don't improve education we run the risk of having to pay for the effects of ignorance. County jails, state prisons and the like. Unfortunately there seems to be a number of people who like to keep the poor poor, and who think they can justify owning a second or third home while many working people cannot afford a first home.</p>
<p>A society that values a vcr in the back seat of a second SUV over having a library and librarian in every school is not going to support a democracy for long.</p>
<p>Mr. B:</p>
<p>Cal receives $0.76/dollar back from DC, while Texas receives $0.92. Back in the early '90s, both donor states received ~$0.92. But, as you can see, over the past decade, TX has held its own (helps to have a President), while California's 'share' has declined significantly.</p>
<p>Xiggi: do you know of data that shows differently? </p>
<p>btw: your post about TX is instructive, since TX has very similar demographics to Cal, and is also heavily impacted by immigration. However, I seem to remember reading somewhere that TX kids do better in classrooms???</p>
<p>Mr. B, thank you for your thoughtful reply. </p>
<p>I also believe in the value of education. I do know that many teachers face insurmontable obstacles in their daily activities. I know that the reports of a number of schools in Los Angeles that are rat-infested are very real. I think that everyone would love to see sub-standards schools closed and see more money flowing to the teachers and the classrooms. That is why I tend to be so critical of abuses, organized theft, and the protection of a few bad apples. I do reserve my strongest criticisms for the wasting of precious resources. I'm not sure if things have changed since last year, but I remember reading a report that California could save more than a billion dollars by centralizing its K-12 purchases of books. If I remember well, most districts were ordering books individually to the great delight of the large book vendors. As it is, I have a hard time reconciling the brutal conditions that exist with the waste at the top. I agree that similar events will arise in any large organization -public or private. That does not mean that we should stop mentioning the problems and hope for positive changes, especially since it will be harder to spend more on education -or at least to raise the money to spend. That said, I also think that spending on education might be a bit of a misnomer. Investing in education seems more appropriate. </p>
<p>As far as Texas, I'm not sure if they have reached the level of becoming a model. The State is still facing huge problems and positive changes are coming much more slowly than expected. I think that Texas has improved in a number of "achievement measurements" and may have swapped positions with California for the K-6 grades. No matter how we look at the statistics, reasons to smile are quite rare. </p>
<p>As far as numbers, I'll spend some time digging for a few gems. :)</p>
<p>It would be worth to compare the follwoing figures with the NEA statistics. On the issue of results per dollar of spending, I'm wondering how the first (DC) would compare with the last (Utah). </p>
<p>Expenditures Per Student
Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2004 </p>
<p>1 DC $13,187<br>
2 New York $11,546<br>
3 New Jersey $11,436<br>
4 Connecticut $10,001<br>
5 Massachusetts $9,856<br>
6 Vermont $9,678<br>
7 Alaska $9,586<br>
8 Delaware $9,271<br>
9 Rhode Island $9,178<br>
10 Pennsylvania $8,841<br>
11 Wyoming $8,667
12 Wisconsin $8,574
13 Maryland $8,507
14 Michigan $8,489
15 Maine $8,351
16 Ohio $8,100
17 Illinois $8,022
18 West Virginia $7,748
19 New Hampshire $7,750
20 Minnesota $7,691
21 Oregon $7,621
22 Indiana $7,580
23 California $7,511
24 Virginia $7,501
25 Nebraska $7,418
26 Georgia $7,340
27 Iowa $7,305
28 Hawaii $7,253
29 Kansas $7,052
30 Montana $7,027
31 Missouri $7,018
32 South Carolina $6,984
33 Washington $6,894
34 Colorado $6,884
35 Texas $6,746
36 North Dakota $6,728
37 New Mexico $6,606
38 Oklahoma $6,256
39 Louisiana $6,519
40 North Carolina $6,511
41 Kentucky $6,493
42 South Dakota $6,319
43 Arkansas $6,119
44 Alabama $6,115
45 Florida $6,056
46 Nevada $6,034
47 Tennessee $5,984
48 Idaho $5,923
49 Arizona $5,524
50 Mississippi $5,382
51 Utah $4,890
Average $7,701</p>
<p>Mr. B Teachers make a lot of money in California, infact they make more than most people with a college degree. California teachers are not underpaid. They make around $60,000 a year with some making over 100,000 a year. They can support a family with that. Price of homes are expensive in California, but if you compare their salary with the salary of others in California teachers are paid very well. </p>
<p>CC fees need to be raised more in California, those students are not paying enough. Also you can go to CC for two years and transfer you don't need to stop after 2 years.</p>
<p>Mr. B:</p>
<p>fwiw: Sausalito (yeah, the bastion of poor-ness in Marin County, and home of our Senator), has an ADA of $20k/kid, in contrast to the state avg of $6.8k.....</p>
<p>This IS an example of what happened after Prop 13; politically-connected districts locked in rich funding formulas while using up the-then cash surplus.</p>
<p>momof2inca
you wrote: The fact is that 20.9 students per teacher is NOT the reality that the majority of middle/high school teachers and students experience. The statistics are misleading. They count the speech therapist, who works with one student at a time. They count the resource teachers, who might have 5 students at at time. The special ed. teachers who have class loads of 10 or so. And on and on.</p>
<p>as a public school speech/language pathologist I only wish that I worked with students 1-1 My district requires students to be worked with in groups. I have a case-load of 54 plus I am responsible for testing 5-10 students a month. My husband would love to have 10 students in his multiple handicapped class high school class he has 18!</p>
<p>We, as a society, need to educate the parents of our English Language Learners to focus on education. I have 5 children on my caseload who are failing 4th grade because they don't do any homework at all...and the parents insist that it is the school's responsibility not theirs to teach the children so homework is not necessary!</p>
<p>WaitingMom, if we can convince these parents to help their children do their homework and stop playing video games or racking up cell phone bills, you will see remarkable changes in the classroom. We as a society have just gone backwards.</p>
<p>tenisghs-I agree some of my students spend hours playing video games such as Halo and they are only 10 years old....they can't concentrate or stay on task at school but they can play video games for hours....as for my home my daughters do something odd when they get home from school they read, do homework and have dinner with their parents...and their school day begins at 8:20 and ends at 4:50.......which could be why I'm here on cc reading posts as we wait for college acceptances and merit money! (by the way we don't own a game cube or x-box)
I wish we could shift priorities to helping children and parents plan for their futures instead of immediate gratification :(</p>
<p>Simple:</p>
<ol>
<li>Smaller classrooms. No more than 20 students per actual teacher.</li>
<li>More money for clean and working classrooms and equipment.</li>
<li>More parental involvement. I have no clue why many parents refuse to actually sit down with their kids and go over homework or assist with homework or insure that it is done.</li>
<li>Get rid of tenure. If a teacher fails to perform (and I don't mean produce graduates) then get rid of the teacher. If I don't do my job well, I'm fired or not retained. I fail to understand why teachers are "guaranteed" continued work after something like 7 years and if they then decide to do poorly we can do nothing about getting rid of them.</li>
<li>Insist on excellence from our students. Test them. Test them again. Assess where their weaknesses are. Do not promote them if they can't meet certain standards. Fund programs that will HELP those at risk and in need of extra help.</li>
<li>Get rid of summer vacation. No need for 3 months off. Summer vacation was about kids help parents with the harvest way back when. That isn't done anymore. Too many kids sit idle and unproductive during these 3 months. What a waste. Give kids something productive to do that my actually teach them something. Same with the regular school day. Make it 9-5 like a work day. Doesn't have to be all academic...but it does have to be productive and keep the kid's interest and occupied and off the streets!</li>
</ol>