Studying abroad in Vienna?

Parents Forum
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<p>My son is very seriously considering making Vienna his first choice for studying abroad during the fall term next year, at the U of Chicago-run program there. </p>

<p>As a purely practical reason, it would certainly give him a great headstart towards learning the German he'll need if he ends up going on to graduate school in art history (especially if he takes advantage of the 3-week intensive program in German that's offered before the term starts). And the civilization course he'd be taking, focusing on the Habsburgs, sounds interesting. But he's also very excited about all the museums and other cultural offerings, and the opportunities he'll apparently have to do a lot of traveling in Central Europe. He's already got Budapest (where my sister lives, although neither of us have seen her since my son was 5), Prague, and Cracow on his wish list. He even wants me to fly over at the end of the term to meet him and travel to Berlin together; it's where my mother was born and grew up until she had to leave as a refugee at 15, but I've never been there.</p>

<p>He also says he's heard that Vienna isn't a bad place to be if you're gay.</p>

<p>And he'd have his own room in the dormitory (at the U. of Vienna, I think), something that happens to be very important to him.</p>

<p>One of his few concerns, really, is that Austrians still have a distinct reputation for harboring anti-Semitism. (I know my sister thought so after living in Graz for a few years). But it isn't as if he'd be walking around carrying a sign saying he's Jewish.</p>

<p>I haven't really tried to research the question, but I'm assuming that Vienna isn't a particularly dangerous city in general.</p>

<p>Is there anyone here who's ever had a kid study abroad in Vienna, or who's spent enough time there him or herself to have an opinion on whether it would be a worthwhile place to spend a few months?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>Donna, my D has just finished the specific study abroad program you refer to at the university that shall remain nameless (see other thread!). She loved the language pre-program, has really enjoyed being in Central Europe and is now traveling prior to returning homeā€¦finally. She has not found Vienna to be overtly anti-semitic, but she does feel the undertones. The courses have been interesting and the overall experience a good one. The housing is not at the University of Vienna though. Itā€™s in a student residence over by the Prater, the kids have to take the U-Bahn and a tram to get to class. They are 4 bedroom suites, with a small kitchenette ( no oven) and a table and chairs etc. When she arrived for the pre-session her only suitemate was a German woman who lived there, not even a student. When the rest of the kids on program showed up (only 7 of the 20 did the pre-session) she added two roommates from Chicago. They traveled as a group to Prague for a weekend as part of the program. Safety, overall she felt very safe, even returning to her residence late one night on the U-Bahn when we were visiting, but she did have her wallet stolen out of her backpack on the U-Bahn. She said thatā€™s the only type of crime she was concerned about, no weapons involved. She did find and attend high holiday services at a small local synagogue with another U of C student and found it very interesting. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.</p>

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<p>Thanks so much, runnersmom ā€“ maybe I could put my son in touch with your daughter after sheā€™s back at school? Iā€™m sure heā€™d love to talk to her about her experiences.</p>

<p>Youā€™re right, of course, about where they live; I forgot that my son had told me about that.</p>

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<p>Iā€™m sure that would be fine with her. Sheā€™s still in Europe at the moment. Spending a week in and around London while a friend completes her study abroad program (non-U of C) and then they head off to France for a week. Iā€™ll check with her and PM you her email address. </p>

<p>She was able to take advantage of the location and travel some. They went to Bratislava overnight, Budapest during the week off between the pre-session and the beginning of the quarter, she found a bike tour of the wine country and spent a day outside of Vienna pedaling from vineyard to vineyard, a weekend in Salzburg, the weekend in Prague, she spent her week off in November in Spain, and then flew to London for a family Bar Mitzvah Thanksgiving weekend. Itā€™s a great location for central and western European travel.</p>

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<p>My D did a semester in Budapest and made side trips to Vienna and Iā€™ve been to Vienna twice. Iā€™d jump at the opportunity to spend a semester there. I donā€™t think the anti-Semitism in Vienna is any worse than in some parts of the United Statesā€¦make of that what you will. In some ways Vienna conjures to mind a German-speaking Manhattan: full of people focused, on the move, surrounded by cultureā€¦and very very expensive. </p>

<p>Just typing this makes me want to go and spend a few weeks there.</p>

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<p>Well my brother in law spent several years there after high school and he loved it.
However he did so for his mission with the Latter Day Saints- which probably tells you a lot.
He drooled after the beer, but loved the pastries.
;)</p>

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<p>Itā€™s beautiful city and very easy to get around, but as TheDad pointed out, its VERY expensive. At least for the grown-ups visiting her! Our Vienna hotel was substantially more, for the same class of hotel, than those in Budapest and Prague. We did find some terrific restaurants that were not outrageously priced. She (and her compatriots) seemed to figure out how to eat and socialize on a relatively limited budget. They saved their money for travel.</p>

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<p>Iā€™m not really sure why German is a big ā€œneedā€ for someone thinking of grad school in Art History. But if someone wants to really learn a language, my viewpoint is to do a full year abroad and to have the language background so he or she can take classes in the native tongue. A 3 week ā€œintensiveā€ course in German will allow him to learn some basics but thatā€™s it. So, he will be taking classes taught in English and picking up German on the side. Thatā€™s just a nice long vacation in another country in my viewpoint. Nothing wrong with that but a long way from being truly useful.</p>

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<p>Itā€™s a need because passing a test showing at least the ability to read in German (and French) is generally a requirement for art history graduate programs.</p>

<p>And the 3 week pre-program in German is in addition to studying German during the term, not instead of it.</p>

<p>And he can always take the ā€œGerman for Readingā€ course Chicago offers, when he returns.</p>

<p>Yes, heā€™ll probably have more free time than he normally would, but I wouldnā€™t call it a vacation by any means.</p>

<p>He has no interest in spending an entire year abroad, by the way. There are too many courses he wants to take at the University itself. In any event, spending a term abroad is how itā€™s done there.</p>

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<p>Trust me, its no vacation. The U of C Civ programs abroad are taught by U of C professors transplanted to Vienna for the quarter. Its even more compressed than a usual quarter, since each of the 3 Civ classes is taught, by itself, in a 3 week bloc, in addition to the quarter long German class. Students take a placement test when they arrive for the pre-session and again when the quarter starts. Some students are able to move into intermediate German taught at the University of Vienna by their own professors even with only the pre-session under their belt. Those with more German going in take upper level classes at the university, while the rest of the classes are, as I said, U of C classes taught by U of C professors. No vacation.</p>

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<p>And just to add one more thoughtā€¦all the U of C profs took advantage of the city and used it as a part of their classroom, a very integrated experience.</p>

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<p>Yes, my son mentioned that to me as something else about the program that appeals to him. Since thatā€™s the sort of thing he loves to do anyway.</p>

<p>The only drawback to the whole thing from my viewpoint is that for the first time ever, I wonā€™t be able to spend Thanksgiving with him. But I do hope to be able to fly over and visit him at some point.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Ah, with that info and those additional options, I take it all back.</p>

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<p>Donna, well, thatā€™s very exciting.</p>

<p>Sounds like runnersmom is the go-to person for all things related to this program so she will be a great resource, but I can just interject a couple of things. We lived in Vienna for 3 years. There are threads on all the places you mentioned (Vienna, Prague, Berlin, etc.), check the archives.</p>

<p>German is one of the target languages for Art History, you are correct. Of course, there are endless opportunities to see art in that part of the world, not just at the Kunsthistorisches Museum, but he could visit a different castle every week and all within the environs of Vienna!
[Art</a> in Vienna - Vienna Museums - Museums in Vienna, Austria](<a href=ā€œhttp://www.aboutvienna.org/museums/museums.htm]Artā€>Visit Vienna: Museums & Art in Vienna)</p>

<p>I certainly knew gay people in Vienna. I am not sure about the students, but the gay couples we knew were very happy and busy.
[Gay</a> & Lesbian - VIENNA ? NOW OR NEVER](<a href=ā€œhttp://www.wien.info/en/vienna-for/gay-lesbian]Gayā€>For LGBT - vienna.info)</p>

<p>Also I knew Jewish people, and while not numerous, were very active and accepted. Particularly I remember attending Kristallnacht commemoration with a Jewish friend, and it was very moving.
[IKG[/url</a>]</p>

<p>Vienna is a safe city, but Iā€™d be careful at night in certain districts, such as around the Prater.</p>

<p>One thing I wanted to mention is that if he gets frowns of disapproval, it might not be for the reasons he would assume (homophobia, antisemitism, etc.). Americans are forever committing unwitting transgressions in Germanic Europe, believe me! Most of the time you just donā€™t know why people are frowning, hissing or scolding at you. Austrians are notorious ā€œscoldersā€. Lots of stony older Viennese are just roaming the streets on the lookout for Americans committing such sins as not waiting until the little man on the sign says to walk across the street, not speaking enough proper Viennese German, sitting in the ā€œold peopleā€ spots on the bus, etc. Germans and Austrians just LOVE to stop your life to lecture you about your failings.</p>

<p>The best thing for him (and you, while youā€™re traveling) to do is just remember not to take this to heart ā€“ it happens to EVERYBODY I know. Laugh about it later, but in the meantime, be exaggeratedly gracious, say
Entschuldigung
Danke Vielmals
Vielen Dank
Bitte (for everything)
Sehr, sehr schoen</p>

<p>and in Austria and Bavaria they say ā€œGruess Gottā€ not ā€œGuten Tagā€.</p>

<p>Son can practice a little bow from the waist, they will love him. He will get very, very far if he can bow and ā€œKuess die Handā€ of any older ladies he meets. Also, you can both learn to waltz! Lovely! If you can stay in Vienna long enough make him take you to a ball. The Blumenball is a nice one ā€“ lots of Americans from the Embassy attend:
[url=<a href=ā€œHolidays in Austria - The official travel guide for Austriaā€>Holidays in Austria - The official travel guide for Austria]Vienna</a> Ball calendar](<a href=ā€œhttp://www.ikg-wien.at/static/etis/html/start.htm]IKG[/urlā€>http://www.ikg-wien.at/static/etis/html/start.htm)</p>

<p>Ah, I miss Vienna!</p>

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<p>Thanks so much, Anudduhmom ā€“ Iā€™ll be sure to warn him to be unfailingly polite, and not to assume the worst!</p>

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<p>I do not know whether he picked up some German from his grandmother and possibly you. If not, I would recommend him to prepare himself by learning much, much more about grammar than what is taught in US HSā€™s. Grammar is the real difficulty in the German language. The word ā€˜theā€™ has for example 16 translations (although some are the same) and the correct choice depends on where the word is placed in a sentence. Grammer is not something you can learn overnight. Even practicing a language a lot doesnā€™t always lead to good results. It doesnā€™t matter if he learns more about grammar in the English language. It is a bit like math (to a large extent grammar is logic) and like in math the language in which grammar is taught is less relevant.</p>

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<p>Donna, Iā€™m sure he will be polite (after all, he is your son :)), but actually the ā€œOld Worldā€ kind of politeness I am talking about can be kind of fun ā€“ think of it as a ā€˜finishing schoolā€™ for the well-bred young gent! The courtly manners can really open doors in the type of circles he might want to travel (international art).</p>

<p>After I wrote that last night I had a sudden memory from when I worked in haute couture in Paris. One of my friends was a wonderful, young, gorgeous gay chap, and at a party for the ā€˜Jour de Saint Catherineā€™ we spotted a woman we knew, who taught at the couture school, and happened to be a White Russian baroness (of a certain age) and very proud, cold and formal. My friend went up to her and bowed and held out his arm (all of us were amazed at his boldness!) for a dance. They swirled around the floor for hours ā€“ dancing that stiff-backed Viennese waltz thatā€™s so hard to master. It was a magical occasion for all who were there. And all because my friend had learned the Waltz!</p>

<p>Sigh. I wish I had insisted my boys learn this. But oh well, they have their sterling qualities!</p>

<p>By the way, something for you to know as well, in Austria ladies our age dress more formally than in the U.S. I was surprised at how well-dressed they were, even in country areas like the Tirol. You donā€™t have to go the full ā€˜trachtā€™ with the dirndl and everything (I never bought one of those), but the well-cut wool Austrian blazer will serve you well year-round in Austria and Germany. Loden Plankl or Tostmann are the traditional makers, but you can find wonderful stuff at consignment shops all over Vienna. Ask Son to scope them out before you arrive, to save time. All the rich people buy consignment ā€“ the middle-class buy new (as a consignment-shop lady in Garmisch, Germany told me), and then they bring stuff to consignment with the tags still on!</p>

<p>ā€¦suddenly Iā€™m feeling very schlubby sitting here in my yoga pants and Ugg bootsā€¦</p>

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<p>ā€œThe only drawback to the whole thing from my viewpoint is that for the first time ever, I wonā€™t be able to spend Thanksgiving with him.ā€</p>

<p>That was the hardest part for me too. We had the entire family here, and she was sorely missed. I remember when my sister studied abroad my parents timed their visit to coincide with Thanksgiving. Depending on how much time you will have to travel, you might consider that too. The quarter ends a week after Thanksgiving! But also, they have class (at least they did this year) on Thanksgiving. Itā€™s not a holiday, clearly. My D left for London after class that Thursday for a family Bar Mitzvah, but she said the students organized a potluck and Dean Boyer (taught the 3rd class) arranged fro some sort of goose dinner. At least that was the plan when she left. </p>

<p>Since she left on August 28 for the pre-session we opted for visiting at the end of October, which conveniently coincided with her birthday.</p>

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<p>Sorry to post again so soon, Donna, but I just reread your OP again, and I see that Son has Krakow on his itinerary. See if he can schedule it so that you can go with him. It is a long schlep but it will be a visit you wonā€™t forget.</p>

<p>Itā€™s kind of a thing with me to take my family around to Holocaust memorials wherever we are, and Krakow is probably Ground Zero as far as thatā€™s concerned. We were there for several days and visited Auschwitz, Birkenau, Plaszow (the concentration camp site in ā€œSchindlerā€™s Listā€), the Schindler Emailienwerke factory, and the Jewish ghetto. </p>

<p>The only thing is, we drove, and Iā€™m not sure what the access is if you donā€™t have a car. Iā€™m guessing that there are probably tours. Poland is reasonably-priced and American-friendly (that will be a relief after Austria, lol). If you decide to rent a car, MAKE SURE the insurance covers Czech/Poland/Hungary. </p>

<p>Berlin is also far, but well-covered in terms of trains and public transport.</p>

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<p>I havenā€™t lived in Vienna, but visited occasionally having lived for five years in Munich. My husband has a very obvious Jewish last name, and our experience was that people didnā€™t even recognize his last name as Jewish. I had a Sierra Club calendar on the wall at my office and some one asked me what ā€œHannukahā€ was. Most people of our generation havenā€™t even met a Jew, Iā€™d imagine that goes doubly for our kids. We met no prejudice, though once shared a table at a beer garden with someone who had been in the SS. Ewww. That was twenty years ago, and I imagine most of those guys are dead. Since dh is not observant we never went looking for a Jewish community, but I believe they exist.</p>

<p>I agree that correcting people is a bit of a German trait. Itā€™s not necessarily anti-Semitism. If you get tired of Germans being German I recommend the night train to Italy! I loved our time in Germany however. Itā€™s really convenient for seeing the rest of Europe while youā€™re at it.</p>

<p>While Germans dress better when they go out, I was surprised that the secretaries in our office were actually less dressed up that the ones at my offices back in California. Our standard office attire was nice sweaters over khakis for the men, skirts or nice pants with a good blouse for the women. Again a long time ago.</p>

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