Studying in the U.K. and possibly at University of Edinburgh as an American

Student Lounge International Students
41

@lizzzar:
“You can make of this what you will, but international rankings are generally the most reliable rankings”

That’s like saying “Hugh Hefner (when he was alive) was generally the more reliable judge of female beauty”.

OK, let’s play this game by the rules you set:
The University of Washington is ranked #25 by the Times (international ranking).
Brown is ranked #50, Rice is ranked #86, and Georgetown is ranked #123.
All 3 of these are full-fledged research U’s (so is Dartmouth, BTW; they confer PhDs, but anyway)

So assuming that you get in to UW, Brown, Rice, and Georgetown for undergrad and costs are the same, would you go to UW for undergrad?

42

^ Depends on what you want to study.

(Also, any “ranking” is just the product of its specified methodology, e.g.,
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/methodology-world-university-rankings-2018.)

43

Agree with that, @UWfromCA.

Most of the International rankings heavily weigh research prowess.

44

St. Andrews grants about 200 PhDs a year. University of Washington 1400, Brown 300, Dartmouth is also around 200.

So yeah, they are not going to be the same in terms of the number of research publications they churn out. Which affects global research university rankings. Not suprisingly on the research type rankings St. Andrews and Dartmouth do much, much worse than UW.

45

Yes, not surprising.

See #41 and another example:

http://publicuniversityhonors.com/rankings-academic-departments-private-elites-vs-publics/

46

Did you look at the responses in the first thread you posted?

And going to an American college and spending a year (or more) abroad seems a much more prudent way to spend one year in Scotland than going over there first and then looking to transfer.

47

So didn’t you have a longish thread about this last spring? (I think your father said that Edi was ‘horrible’?).

Full disclosure: I am a big fan of Edi, know a number of US (and other nationality) students who have loved it, and had a collegekid who ‘insured’ it (ie, it was her 2nd choice if her 1st choice didn’t come through). But: like anyplace, it suits some people more than others.

To answer your questions:

  1. You transfer- same as if you get to any other school and don't like it.
  2. Well, you will have to live in the US after you finish, as you won't have the legal right to live in the UK once you graduate. You don't say what subject you are interested in, but surprise! professors have connections all over the world. You will certainly have lots of connections- lots for the UK, and lots around the world.
  3. lololol at the idea that Scotland is "culturally shocking". 4.Hard to know where to start with this one. 1) you might or might not get into "Ivy League schools", no matter how hard you have worked; 2) you might not be interested in any of the schools in that sports league; 3) the fact that the speaker hasn't heard of X UK uni doesn't mean "nobody has ever heard" of it; 4) depending on the school you are probably not "settling"; 5) if you know what you want to study, in the UK you get to do what you love and not have to fool with GenEds; 5) if you go to England instead of Scotland, you can be in done in 3 years, not 4. Anyway that's enough attention to a pretty daft question.

a) Yes, dual subjects are like a double major. A real difference between the UK & the US is that the courses are much more structured, with less choice (esp in year 1). Good news: what you study each year, for every course at every university is available online. It is very important to read the fine print, as changing later ranges from difficult to impossible.
b) Yes, same as transferring from a US-US. I know students who did, indeed find Scotland too dark, St A’s too small, Edi too different and transferred back to the US- same as I know students who have transferred out of many of the most familiar US colleges, b/c the fit wasn’t right for them.
c) Nobody can answer that for you- b/c nobody else will know what you prefer. The person I know who left Edi found it too big, so it’s really individual! But ime Edinburgh is a great college town- there are always things going on, and there is all of Europe an EasyJet cheap flight away.

Bottom line is that you can get a first rate education at many universities- in the US, the UK and many other countries. (one of my college kids applied to 7 universities (total) in 6 countries). I am surprised that you are getting such parochial, even chauvinistic, push-back about well-known & respected universities in the country that is one of the least different from the US. Imo, the things to seriously consider when deciding whether to study in the UK have to do more with:

  1. do you have a subject (or joint subject) that you really want to study, and have you found a course / courses at UK unis that you are excited about?
  2. are you pretty independent and resourceful? in the UK, students are treated like adults and are expected to sort things out for themselves (imo, this is why they form such strong bonds- b/c they have to rely on each other, not the older generation)
  3. are you reasonably self-motivating and self-disciplined? b/c in many courses there is very little continuing assessment, and most (sometimes all) of your marks are on your final exam or a paper. And, per #2 above, nobody is going to check up on you.
  4. are you able to engage in political discussion in a reasonably mature and thoughtful way, even when people are being critical of your country / government / elected officials / education system / etc.? This is not a dominant part of the experience, but it is sometimes a jolt to American students to get the unfiltered views of students from other countries.

Think those questions through and see where it takes you.

48

“4. ‘You can get into Ivy league schools because of how hard you’ve worked in school, so why settle for a university no one has ever heard of?’”

This is a second hand comment that I have an opinion on.

First of all, admission at Ivy League and equivalent schools in the US is unpredictable. You could certain apply to Ivy League schools (or Stanford or MIT) and also apply to U of Edinburgh and see where you get in. Assuming that you are not the child of a former popular president, I don’t think that getting into an Ivy League school can be assumed.

If you worked hard in school, this is to give you options that YOU want to pursue. Don’t pursue someone else’s dream.

Also, “no one has ever heard of” is not right. The University of Edinburgh is very well known and well respected. No one in my family ever considered attending universities in Europe, but I still know very well how well respected it is.

I also don’t agree that Scotland is culturally shocking. I think that spending four years there would be a very interesting experience which would broaden your view of the world.

I do agree that Edinburgh will be dark in the winter. While the end of the gulf stream moderates its winter temperature, it is a long way north and that does shorten the winter days quite a bit.

I will add one last thought: Academically there is no bad choice here (or at least none that has come up in this thread). As long as you also apply to good and affordable safeties, when discussing schools at the level of Edinburgh or the Ivy League, you can do what you want to do and get a very good education.

49

The Edinburgh website sets out how the History and Economics course is structured: https://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/undergraduate/degrees/index.php?action=programme&code=V200

You won’t have as much flexibility to explore other subject areas as in the US, and no formal gen ed requirements.

If you also apply to some English universities among your other UCAS options, these will mostly have less extraneous elements still, with you just taking history and econ courses and nothing else. If you’re really Ivy caliber academically maybe even Oxford might not be out of reach: https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/history-and-economics?wssl=1

50

Yep, dual subjects would be like double majors except you delve deeper in to both subjects than in the US. In American colleges, liberal arts majors typically take up 1/3 of your classes so a double major would mean 1/3 of classes in each major and the other 1/3 on other classes (gen eds, typically). Dual subject in Scotland would usually mean you only take classes in those 2 subjects.

51

@johnwill1235 Personally, I think it’s wonderful you are considering this. How fabulous to have had the opportunity to live there a while, I bet that gave you a good taste of it! Which is exactly what study abroad would do without committing you for 4 yrs, however, it seems you’ve already had that taste and are now considering a real move. No one can decide that except for you, we are strangers, but it’s nice to bounce the idea off others here. By the way, whether you have posted before doesn’t matter, posting again only means you’re still seeking information which is exactly what this website is for! Do you know about The Student Room? It’s the U.K. version of College Confidential but way more in depth for each school.

I am in the US and have just gone through the process of my DD going to Durham for 3 yrs this fall for history. She went to Univ of Richmond here 1 yr & decided she wanted to try the U.K., much cheaper! It’s a daunting process, I can tell you that! I’m a big believer in taking chances, I have moved a lot and think it would be a fabulous experience that would set you apart & only help you get a job here. It’s a world ranked school!

As for your questions, I’m not nearly as knowledgeable as many here who have already responded but I can speak to a couple of them. First, I don’t think going to Edinburgh would be culturally shocking! Sounds like an unadventurous sort told you that. It will be dark & gloomy but plenty of wonderful unique opportunities that would well make up for it, and I know you don’t realize this now, but at your age, the weather is just not going to effect you like it would if you were 50. Kids don’t take this stuff to heart like us old adults do, lol.

Are you planning on grad school at all? Overseas or in the US? That might play into your decision as well. People most certainly have heard of Univ of Edinburgh, in fact, it’s most embarrassing for whoever told you that.

As other posters have said, getting into Ivy schools is much more unsure than it once was. I have known & read about kids with near perfect scores still not getting in. Seems now you have had to have created a water supply for a 3rd world country while playing cello with the Boston Pops in order to be admitted, lol. Don’t give this up for an ivy to which you have not yet been admitted.

England is 3 yrs so less $ unless it’s really Edinburgh you want. It was my DD’s first choice, she fell in love with it but as it’s 4 yrs & we already paid for a year here, she had to do England but still loves Durham & it’s fabulous for history, FYI, as it seems you are interested in history. We live where there are palm trees so she is sick of sunshine. She sort of belongs in a Poe novel, lol.

If you don’t love it, it’s 4 yrs just like here, transfer back to the states! I say go for it!

Good luck, hope the responses are helping, as it seemed you had other questions post away!

52

Apply through UCAS to UEdinburgh, HerriotWatt as a safety, plus St Andrews, Aberdeen, and Glasgow. Bam, you’re done with UCAS and would likely hear back by Christmas - while you wait, complete your EA/ED applications in the US and keep your fingers crossed.
If you’re interested in European experiences, you have Trinity Dublin, Sciences Po Paris (the Reims campus is dedicated to transatlantic relations), the Nertherlands’ Residential University colleges…

53

@cloudysmom, people may not be inclined to answer when someone posted before, people responded with helpful information, and the poster posted some of the same concerns/questions again with no indication that he has read the previous responses.

54

I don’t understand why that matters, but I guess it might to some, not to me though. Someone new may see this new post - like me - things get buried so quickly. I never saw the other posts so I assume not everyone has. The bottom line seems to be that he is still seeking help or he would not have posted again.

55

^I think there was a systems malfunction around that time because several posters ended up with identical threads with the same time stamp. I think it’s been cleaned up.

56

Hi PurpleTitan,

I have read all of the three pages of responses and found many very helpful. I posted this to ask for some thoughts about topics and questions which were not quite answered.

In regards to the more prudent way to do things, It is not my plan to transfer after one year, I simply wanted to troubleshoot in case it turns out I hate it.

Thank you for your input.

57

Hi collegemom3717,

Thanks for your comments on almost every point I presented!

Some people in my family who are providing their thoughts could definitely be described as parochial and chauvinistic, and because of this fact, I am trying to formulate a good argument on why they should support me in my informed college choice!

  1. I am very interested in history and would like to take finance/economics courses as well because I think they would serve me well in life.
    2/3) I am trying to become more independent and self-disciplined, so I think going to a UK university would help me with that.
  2. I have been faced with many situations where people from other countries have insulted my country, and I always try to see where they are coming from so I can broaden my view on my countries politics.
58

Hi, cloudysmom,

I appreciate your post very much, and I think that with my adventurous character it would not be too culturally shocking for me to attend Uni in the UK.

I will certainly check out The Student Room.

59

Look into
https://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/undergraduate/degrees/index.php?action=view&code=V300

60

Hello, I live in the US. I am posting here today because I am particularly drawn to going to University in Scotland. I don’t know too much about it, but I know that their system is a hybrid between the English system of very focused and the American college system of liberal education. I was looking at universities such as Edinburgh or Saint Andrews, and comparing them to universities like the University of Pennsylvania. My dad says that “the University of Edinburgh and Saint Andrews are horrible compared to Penn and the American graduate programs will be much harder to get into” if I go to the Scotish schools.

Is there any evidence that these schools will make it harder to get into good graduate programs? I am particularly interested in International relations/politics/business, so I was also wondering if these schools are particularly good for these.