<p>Hey everyone,</p>
<p>I'm a Malaysian still in high school. I am currently in Form 4 (after that is form five, then A levels/STPM which is the local version of pre-u), so college will be in 2013.
I'm planning on majoring in mathematics, which has been my love since I was a kid, and minoring in physics. Germany seems like a great country, but I have a few questions I hope someone can answer:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Is education and living in Germany really that affordable? Most German universities seem to charge little or no tuition fees, and even when they do, it's very much cheaper than those of universities in the UK/Australia/US etc. The cost of living is estimated to be around 770 Euro per month, which is also surprisingly cheap (this is again relative to studying in the aforementioned countries). Is this true or am I getting my facts wrong?</p></li>
<li><p>Would it be advisable to study mathematics and physics in Germany for an undergraduate degree? The Malaysians that I hear of going to Germany are always for postgraduate studies, and mostly in engineering.</p></li>
<li><p>About the German language - The only German word I know is 'Beethoven', but I'm planning on starting German language courses in January. I still have about 2.5 years left in my home country, so if I do take German courses in that period of time, how proficient will I be able to be in German (on an average, I know that everyone varies in this kind of thing)? At the Malaysian German Society here, two years (4 semesters) of courses can get me to completing the A2. So based on that, how long would I have to spend in Germany studying the language?</p></li>
<li><p>How hard is it to enter a good German university? I have good grades and rank about 5th in my year of about 500 people. The math and science subjects are my best subjects, and I'm quite active in extracurricular activities. </p></li>
<li><p>Finally, how good are German universities? I always here that they are 'good', but again, people also say that Malaysian universities are 'good' too. I'm not implying that the quality of higher education here is low, but just HOW good are German universities? In what way? In general, how is the learning environment? How approachable are the professors and lecturers? What about extracurriculars?</p></li>
<li><p>What about job prospects for international graduates in the field of math and physics research in Germany? </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Please don't direct me to any university official websites, I'm asking in general, but recommendations on universities to apply to would be very helpful. And feel free to add anything, even if you can't answer the questions.</p>
<p>Thank you! :)</p>
<p>Amanda NYC</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I am from Germany and will try to answer your questions as good as possible:</p>
<p>1) Tuition really is cheap, usually 1000€ per year maximum. In many states you don’t pay any tuition at all. The more complex issue is cost of living: This really depends on where you want to study and how you want to live. There is both a East/West and a North/South slope in income. You will probably need more than 1k€ in Munich but only about 750 in north-northeast. Costs vary also by town.
If you tell me what Universities you are considering I could give you a raw estimate. Also: Most students in Germany work part-time as waiters to support themselfes.</p>
<p>2) The math and physics degrees in Germany are highly respected and very competative. You can study it at almost every U and TU.</p>
<p>3) I would strongly advise you to have good proficiency in German when coming here to study. A2 will probably not be enough. German is a tough language to learn and math and phys at U level are very writing intensive. All media is in German and you will have problems at your U if u are not proficient. Everyone will be glad to help you and try his best english, but I would recommend you taking an intensive course here after the 2,5 years.</p>
<p>4) Not that had, especially as an international. You can look up the entrance requirements online. Also most Universities are about equally strong on the undergrad level in Math (ofc a few stand out). But you will get a place at a decent college.
However, while everyone is accepted somewhere the universities have different approach to sorting out applicants:
Many prof start the semester by telling you: “look to your left, look to your right, statistically you will not see those two people at your final exams”. There are exams with 80%+ failing rates. Remember what I said about proficiency!</p>
<p>5) Well… Germany has no Harvard, Oxford or MIT. I hardly can say more than that they are good, but not world-elite. Many go on to do their masters at renown foreign universities. They almost all are competative to US state flagships for example though again - thats comparing apples to oranges.</p>
<p>6) Really good! All around the world and also in Germany!</p>
<p>Another point:</p>
<p>Studying in Germany is often very frustrating for internationals and many dont finish their degrees. The Universities are huge and offer little to no support to you. You will not have a attentive professor, you will live off campus and nobody will care if your papers or material is in order. No one knows your name and if you fail there is no advisor or anyting to help you. As an international with not perfect english you will have to make an extra effort to socialize.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for the information!</p>
<p>I have a few more questions:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>What about international degree programs? They’re conducted mostly in English, but does that mean that the quality is slightly compromised?</p></li>
<li><p>If I learn German for 2.5 years here in Malaysia, how long would I have to spend attending intensive German courses in Germany? And does that happen before or after applying to get into universities?</p></li>
<li><p>So I take the downside of studying in Germany is the lack of support? From what you say, it sounds like the professors aren’t very approachable. I also read that often there’s no on campus housing.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>To sum it up, education in Germany isn’t quite that top notch, but it’s ‘good’. The major factor here is the affordable price tag that comes with it, but I’m not sure whether I want to compromise so much quality. What about the top ranking universities, like Heidelberg, Hamburg, Stuttgart etc? How hard is it to get into those? I checked, the average admissions rate is at about 16%, but how is it like for international students doing math? And would you describe those beyond the level of ‘good’?</p>
<p>Thanks!
Amanda</p>
<p>1) I hardly have heard of those, mostly they are offered by private Univ which dont really have that good of a name in Germany.</p>
<p>2) Since I really dont know how good you are with languages or how hard you would be working on your skills I can’t answer that for you. I can tell you that German is harder than the romanic languages (french, spanish etc) and english. It has complicated Grammar and while you might be able to have a proper conversation after 3 years you will need way more time to truly master the language. It’s rather logical, but gets very complex (easy to learn, hard to master).
But if you really get into it and study hard and SPEAK (very important for German) and maybe spend a semester in Germany before starting class (in October) you will probably make it through</p>
<p>3) There usually is no campus housing. People dont do that. There is hardly any support system. Other than in the US for example students in Germany are considered full adults even in high school. You lead your life independently and nothing is organized for you, think of a normal adults life who has a job only that your job is school. Thats one tough thing for internationals because it tends to isolate them.
I would advise you to move into shared flats so you will be socially integrated. Most U students in Germany live in this kind affordable accomodation.</p>
<p>4) Thats really hard to say. Most rankings base strongly on factors that arent really valued in German education and are very focused on the US-model so they underperform in rankings. You have to see that the student body at almost all universities is based on the top 25% of HS classes. Entrance is mostly based on your final mark in HS and German Abitur is very strong copared internationally (usually 3 semesters of credit at US universities). So the student body is very smart.
Especially in math and sciences though I would say that Germany does offer top notch education, but its very hard and you get no help. </p>
<p>The Universities you listed: It is almost impossible to rank German Us since they are very similar overall but with specific strong programs:
for examples medicine in Heidelberg is considered one of the best programs in the world, but you wouldnt even want to study communications there. Germans also decide al lot based on location because generally the education system isnt that focused on college as it is in the anglo world.</p>
<p>You should especially look out for TU (Technical Universities) like Aachen, Munich, Duisburg etc. I’m not that fit on math but you will find them also in the socalled ‘CHE Ranking’</p>
<p>Admission rates dont mean a thing. Students know into which Us they will get in before they apply. You apply to your course of study and not to the U (you will also not be able to switch majors).</p>
<p>So here is what you do: You look up a university and then check if your field of study has restricted access (Zulassungsbeschr</p>
<p>For all I know, you do need to pass the TestDaF (Test Deutsche als Freundsprechen) which acts like TOEFL. You need to get an excellent score on it. The earliest you can take this is after completing B2. So I would think that you will need to spent a year in Germany just studying German to prepare for this exam.</p>