<p>We're nearing the end of a spring break campus tour and I have to say I was taken aback and slightly horrified at yesterday's experience at Big California Campus. </p>
<p>The session was held by an Admissions Counselor who was quite young and most likely only graduated in the last year or two. She was pleasant enough, but really didn't seem to have a handle on anything that wasn't run of the mill. And when she did respond, she repeated herself over and over. I was slightly surprised when she seemed to deter students from the 8 "difficult" majors - STEM. This is a college ranked in the top 10 for physics. </p>
<p>She also contradicted what we've been told by current and former students. Just the night before at dinner, our waiter - who graduated the year before - talked about graduate students and t.a.'s in the classroom. The admissions counselor's power point claimed that only professors teach classes. There was another big discrepancy but I'll chalk that up to marketing.</p>
<p>Slightly concerned that this young person is one of the people responsible for deciding who gets into this school. It's not her age so much as her cluelessness that concerns me. Is this the case at most schools? </p>
<p>Not sure if this experience is "normal" or it's just the difference between private and public colleges. DD felt the same way I did, and she's crossed off the university based on our experience. We were simply underwhelmed. </p>
<p>And this is not a bad thing. OOS tuition brings the cost of this school to the level of highly selective schools.</p>
<p>There seems to be a lot of confusion about “TAs teaching classes” which means different things to different people.</p>
<p>The typical big university model is that the primary instructor leading the class and presenting the material is a faculty member, with TAs doing smaller discussions and labs.</p>
<p>Granted, but this was small in the scheme of things. The entire experience left us shaking our heads, and a little disappointed. I expected better from this campus.</p>
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<p>Should have been your first clue…</p>
<p>I don’t know for sure which school this is, but if it is Berkeley, don’t be surprised. They are not known for having a stellar administration or any advising let alone good advising. If it is Cal also be prepared for professors and TAs who are challenged with making themselves understood in English.</p>
<p>It’s best not to pin an entire decision on the attributes of a single individual from the school. In reality, not all school reps are real swift - they’re often a cross section just like in any job with some being excellent, some being poor, and everything in between.</p>
<p>As far as the TA/prof point - I agree with ‘UCBAlumnus’ it’s likely perception as well as misinformed people (including people posting on CC) making statements. At least at several of the UCs, profs generally lead the classes and TAs do discussion sections.</p>
<p>I had classes at Cal where the teachers of record were grad students (comparative lit) and many non-english speaking TAs (calc, chem, etc). Yes, it may just be one bad first impression, but there also may be something to it. It’s better to go in with your eyes wide open.</p>
<p>@#4</p>
<p>No truer words have been spoken.</p>
<p>Funny stuff, Giterdone-- but I must say I waited tables long into my first “real” job so I could afford rent.</p>
<p>We are still in the early stages – DD is a sophomore – but the presentation wasn’t the only strike against UCSB. Apparently it’s not possible to change one’s major to engineering if a student wasn’t initially accepted into the engineering college. D is interested in physics, mathematics and possibly engineering and would like the flexibility of a choice. </p>
<p>Third strike: the ac told us that freshman in the STEM majors must take a heavy load all 4 years in order to graduate in 4 years. She said students must immediately launch into their science and math courses to be assured a 4 year graduation. All this for the low, low, price of $55K a year.</p>
<p>I don’t think so.</p>
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<p>Incorrect, but changing major to a popular major at a public university generally means applying to do so with competitive admission:
[Changing</a> Your Major | UCSB College of Engineering](<a href=“http://engineering.ucsb.edu/prospective_undergraduates/changing_your_major]Changing”>http://engineering.ucsb.edu/prospective_undergraduates/changing_your_major)
Note that this is not unique to UCSB – public universities are likely to have popular majors or divisions enrolled to capacity instead of holding some space open for free major changes like well endowed private universities can.</p>
<p>A student may choose to apply directly to engineering in order to keep the option of switching to physics or math (which is usually easier to do than the other way around), but that would likely mean facing higher admissions selectivity.</p>
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<p>This is mostly* true in physics and engineering at any school with worthwhile degree programs in those majors, since these majors typically have long prerequisite sequences. Students who can start in a more advanced math course than first semester/quarter freshman calculus using AP credit may get a little more breathing room in their schedules.</p>
<p>However, a student choosing between engineering, physics, and math could follow the freshman engineering curriculum and not worry about being delayed if s/he switches to physics or math during freshman or sophomore year.</p>
<p>*It may be possible to stay on track for four year graduation if starting the prerequisites one semester or quarter late at some schools, but physics and engineering are nothing like some other subjects which can be started late in sophomore year without preventing graduation in four years.</p>
<p>RE: the waiter who graduated the previous year – </p>
<p>Within a month of graduating from college with my journalism degree (way back when), I was hired as a junior writer at a big national magazine. It was my first professional job and launched a fine career in journalism. </p>
<p>HOWEVER – said magazine office was in a very expensive major market, so I also took a job waiting tables at night at a nice restaurant to pay the rather steep rent. Since I was single and had no kids at home, waitressing four nights/week was a fun, low-stress way to bring in extra money. After sitting at a desk most of the day, I looked forward to being on my feet, and my fellow restaurant employees were mostly my age and either still students or new grads. The restaurant staff got to order off the menu before our dinner shifts began, so I was fed, too. I made a couple life-long friends at that restaurant, one who is now a commercial airline pilot and flight instructor, another who is my eye doctor. Both made use of their degrees. Lesson: don’t just automatically diss someone who is a college grad AND waits tables.</p>
<p>Thanks for that UCB, but I’m only reporting what she told us in the information. I believe her words were “It’s very, very difficult and rarely done.” This was not in response to a question. She explained that you get into Engineering or you don’t. And even suggested you’ll want to go to another university if that’s what you want.</p>
<p>Regardless, UCSB is not going to afford the flexibility that D is looking for. </p>
<p>How many people actually are responsible for admittance at a college this size? Tell me that more experienced people make the final decision!</p>
<p>SJR: That was my major as well!</p>
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<p>I agree. Not only is this true today - it’s always been true (well, at least as far back as my undergrad days, back in the Stone Age. And I attended a well-regarded private research university.) The required sequence of physics/math/chemistry classes required for my own chem major was very unforgiving and required chemistry, math and physics classes from first semester freshman year.</p>
<p>Try the unofficial tour: wander campus ,ask students and faculty about their experience.Go behind the scenes so to speak.There are plenty of great schools of all sizes for less than 55k.</p>
<p>It sounds as if you had a rep who probably shouldn’t be representing the college and is dispensing misplaced assumptions on her part as fact when she shouldn’t be. UCBAlumnus posted some good links.</p>
<p>I think there are some generalizations that aren’t unique to UCSB that are good to keep in mind - </p>
<p>At some colleges it can be more difficult to transfer into engineering than out of it to another major. This is sometimes due to popularity of the majors and limited spots and sometimes also due to the increased selectivity for those majors - i.e. it’s often easier to get admitted to the college than to the school of engineering at the same college.</p>
<p>Many of the engineering majors require a heavy course load of difficult courses over the 4 years when compared to many other majors including many humanities majors. There’s clearly a difference in the amount of work, effort, and particular abilities it takes to complete the engineering major. Sometimes this can result in it taking even more than 4 years if there’s a scheduling conflict, a dropped class that needs to be retaken, or if the student isn’t flexible enough to accept an 8am class or something. </p>
<p>Regardless, I’d question the value of paying full fare OOS at UCSB unless the student doesn’t have other good options (which they likely do) or unless the cost doesn’t matter to the family.</p>
<p>I agree that OOS students shouldn’t be considering UC’s at all unless money truly is of no object. They’re simply not worth it.</p>
<p>That said, for anyone instate UCSB is one of the very best places for an undergrad physics major, especially for students in the [College</a> of Creative Studies, UC Santa Barbara](<a href=“http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/]College”>http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu/) </p>
<p>Agree with things that others have posted upthread about STEM majors. Yes, you need to start taking the coursework for the major from the get-go in order to finish in four years. Yes, it can be difficult if not impossible to transfer in to an engineering major, and freshman admissions to engineering schools are highly competitive. And grad students may be teaching your discussion section, but it’s the professor who is teaching the lecture.</p>
<p>Your experience really surprises me. When we toured UCSB last year the student guide made a pointed effort to encourage students to explore the Engineering curriculum. She stated that strengthening the program was an administrative priority (or something to that effect) and guides were instructed to mention/highlight the program.</p>
<p>It is disappointing that someone paid to represent the university was so unprofessional and unprepared. However if next year is anything like this year, the last thing UC needs to worry about is attracting more applications. Perhaps this is their new strategy to dissuade interest.</p>
<p>Note that some of these issues brought up here:</p>
<ul>
<li>different levels of admissions selectivity for different majors or divisions within a college or university (so a school that may appear to be a safety for the student may not be a safety if the student applies to a popular major with higher admissions selectivity)</li>
<li>requirement to apply to change or declare a major, with competitive admission to the new major</li>
<li>long prerequisite sequences for some majors that require starting the major courses immediately</li>
</ul>
<p>are often ignored in the college search and selection process, perhaps because many students and parents are not aware of them, and the colleges and universities do not aggressively make it clear to students and parents that these issues may exist.</p>
<p>Perhaps the UCSB representative was not good at marketing the school, but it does appear that she alerted you to some issues that are commonly found at many schools.</p>
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<p>I somewhat agree with this and everything else Slithey and UCB said coming from Michigan. The same sorts of things bubble up. Kids upset that they aren’t getting “enough” financial aid, being shocked at the bureaucracy of an institution that is the practically the size of our army. Upset that they don’t get personalized attention from admissions. Upset that they get canned admissions speeches when at Michigan they do them several times a day week in and week out, month in and month out. In Michigan’s case the kids that come and pay alot of money on a wing and a prayer that they will get into Ross…as sophomores. These are great, great institutions of learning but you don’t walk in with blinders on. There are massive, massive differences in universities with 40,000 kids, colleges/unis with 4,000 kids and colleges with 1500 or fewer kids. And I agree with those that point out it is often much easier to get out of a major than change your mind and want INto a major after freshman year. Out of state kids bring money to the coffers, bring geographic diversities and a whole lot more to the universities but kids have to understand the pros and cons of these big institutions and systems as in CA.</p>
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<p>Many private schools also have just graduated alumni working as admissions counselors…we’re talking about super selective schools. The job doesn’t pay much to start out and some kids work for a couple of years before going to grad school or professional school.</p>