<p>Hpuck,</p>
<p>You said there is there is a “list of schools” that your company recruited from. Did your company consider strong applicants from other schools or only these target schools. How much of a factor does the applicant’s university play? Also, what schools are these companies looking at? I’m looking at aerospace grad school and this would be a HUGE factor on where I decide to go.</p>
<p>Sean4President,</p>
<p>The company I worked for is a division of a large aerospace company. The division was known for it’s high tech space hardware and was definitely a company that was a dream job for many. HR would pick up the engineering school rankings and just list the top 10 or 15 as “the” schools to recruit from (i.e.; MIT, CalTech, etc). We would do on campus recruiting at those schools and certainly favored those grads. </p>
<p>However, anyone could submit their resume/app from any school and as long as it passed the minimum GPA requirements (and probably some other criteria) it would get looked at and passed on to the hiring manager (I would get quite a stack of resumes). Over the years I worked with many grads from those top schools but also from many, many different schools.</p>
<p>{and to comment on some of the concerns people have raised about being succesful without having been a top college student.} </p>
<p>I worked with some “top” school engineers with great GPAs that were not so good engineers for various reasons. And I worked with engineers that didn’t have such great GPAs but were very good (and very successful) engineers. So although there was no absolute correlation between GPA and success in the field, there was definitely some degree of correlation. If you had the drive and the intelligence to do well in school, you also did so in your professional career.</p>
<p>From my limited sample, I found those whose GPAs were going up as their college career was advancing to be the most likely to be successful as a professional. Their overall GPA wasn’t always the greatest, however. They seemed to “get it” in the advanced classes (maybe a little bored in the basic classes??) and they seemed to develope a love of their chossen field. A love of your field goes a long way to being successful.</p>
<p>I know this thread is old but I came across it and had to comment. I find it interesting that in the last two years all we are hearing about is that our country needs more stem majors. That too many students are not completing the stem majors that they began and that too many are switching majors. Maybe too many are switching because the average gpas of stem majors are like a 3.0 at the top schools and we are telling them that companies will not hire them. If we have a shortage of stem majors the law of supply and demand says that these graduates should be able to find jobs. I am not saying that students barely passing will get jobs but a student with a 3.0 in a stem major should easily be able to find employment. That is a B average and getting a B in a stem class is a darn good grade considering most students I those majors recieve Cs. It is a very different grade distribution than business, economics or humanities. We need these students. The funny thing is that most of them were the top students in high school and now we are telling them they are lazy, sloppy etc if they cannot maintain above a B average. These students are in classes that require twice as many hours, tests that the class average is about a 50 most times and then curved to yield the number of As the school desires which is about 10 to 15%. You cannot judge a stem major by the same criteria as another major a 2.8 ish gpa is very respectable from a top school in my opinion.</p>
<p>There is no shortage of STEM majors. It is a carefully crafted lie told by those who benefit from an oversupply of labor.</p>
<p>Bookmarked.</p>
<p>OK. I’m slightly concerned. My DS has been accepted to a number of colleges including Georgia Tech and he plans on majoring in Biomedical engineering. He is a good student however Georgia Tech is a hard school. I’m wondering if he should go to a lower ranked school that may be easier and end up with a higher gpa. Thoughts?</p>
<p>It is pretty difficult finding a job with around a 3.0 or lower GPA. I graduated with a 3.0 and I had a lot of trouble finding any opportunities. I had an unpaid internship but I wasn’t enjoying it because it wasn’t what I wanted to do nor was any work being done. So as of right now, I had to settle for a composite technician job at an aerospace company and am trying to see how I can move up to an engineering position. Having a lower GPA is gonna mean that you’re not exactly gonna be at a job that you like. However, you can improve your odds of being employed at a company you do like by networking and knowing people at companies so that they can try to get you in.</p>
<p>MichiganGeorgia: IMHO that is a hard call; Lower level school doesn’t always mean higher GPA. It is the material that you must learn that makes engineering a difficult program, not necessarily the school. Curving a test may help, but the prof probably won’t let it go too far. So, the marginal student may be helped some, but not that much.</p>
<p>Most schools have some sort of help systems in place to help students that are struggling. The better thing to do is realize if you’re struggling and get help. You also need to form study groups as going it alone is a sure way to make it tough on yourself.</p>
<p>A school will admit students that they believe will succed, so I would go to the better school if given a choice.</p>
<p>In my kids experience, even the 3.0 currently will not get you even an entry level job. If you look at what is being advertised as entry level currently, it is saying 5-7 years.</p>
<p>The only kids my d knows who she graduated with who are working as engineers are those with 3.5 or above, the only one she knows with less than that, dad was a doctor, got kid a job with medical device company, and was well below 3.0. If they did not have job secured by January/Feb before graduation, they are still unemployed.</p>
<p>At an alumni networking weekend, the speakers unfortunately told the graduates, if you do not know someone, you are so out of luck. </p>
<p>Knowing now what it would be like, definitely would have encouraged a different career choice.</p>
<p>samiamy, I think this is true with many careers. Nurses have over a 40% unemployment and new grads are out of luck for many jobs that specifically say no new grads need apply.</p>
<p>I will respectfully disagree with HPuck. Many courses taken the first 2 years are intro classes with high weed-out curves for all the premeds, sciences, and engineers major. We all know that many of these kids end up changing major since they did not fare well in those classes. I cannot believe that the caliber of kids at schools such as MIT, GATech, are the same as StateUniv. The smart kids at the lower ranked schools could have gone to higher ranked schools but are there for financial and other reasons but it’s the tail/middle of the pack that forms the curve that is different. There is no doubt in my mind that your kids will have a higher GPA at lower ranked schools (especially for those intro physics, calculus courses). This is not to say that the quality of teaching is better at one institution than another. It is only logical that the top X% that get Bs at top schools probably will be push up to A or A- at less competitive schools.</p>
<p>I think we need to stop formulating GPA statistics and instead focus on picking the school that best fits the person. We could go on for weeks discussing “If you go to X-ranked college with a 3.214 UW GPA with brown hair during your freshman year and scored a 2075 on your SAT, you will have a 32.514567% probability of getting a B- in Calc 3…”</p>
<p>Life is just not that predictable. You pick the school that fits your interests and tastes, and you adjust your work ethic accordingly to get the grades you desire.</p>
<p>One of the things I am curious about is why Engineering jobs seem to require a student perform above a certain GPA. No nursing job requires that. There must be many fields that no GPA requirement is in the ad. Why for Engineering?</p>
<p>fractal, I totally agree with you but that is not what MichiganGeorgia is asking. Of course, students should choose to go where they think is best for them.</p>
<p>Lalemom,</p>
<p>Engineering like nursing gives you the entry level skills however with nursing they have the Board Exams to prove proficiency, but for some odd reason, Professional Engineering liscensure is not “required”, so when the job doesn’t require an FE, EIT to obtain the job, its the employers call. At least with nursing passing the Board Exam doesn’t set the arbitrary GPA requirement engineering seems to have.</p>
<p>Although having passed both exams for my kid hasn’t made much if any difference. Maybe would have gotten fewer interviews I don’t know.</p>
<p>With Eng. degrees and skills, people will go above and beyond, visit the moon, mars, etc. and with Nursing degrees, people will go where?..not trying to put down on nursing, etc but the only way companies big or small can judge the competency of new applicants is by looking at GPA. It is not always a good indication that high GPA will be suitable for the job but it is just an indicator.</p>
<p>High GPA in Eng. is required also for doing transfers, pursuing grad schools, etc… ask also any med. schools why they require high gpa, high mcat scores, etc?..they probably will tell you the same thing that it is an indicator only. But, without high gpa then forget med schools or Eng. Schools.</p>
<p>I think GPA is only as important as you let it be. If you internalize GPA as the metric to get you into graduate school or your first job, then it will be your ceiling. But as was mentioned, there are so many ways to get your foot in the door, which ever door that be. </p>
<p>I went to a toppish school (average SAT 1400/1600). I graduated with a 2.8 GPA. I used to wish I had gone to a state school and done better. I think I would have. I can’t speak for all, but at this school I went to, most test averages were in the failing territory and then the marks were curved, (arguably any college exam is scaled based on how liberally partial marks are awarded). At a top school, that means you’re being scaled against kids with high IQ who had the drive to get into the school in the first place. Everyone was that high achieving brainy person in your high school class. In the end, I think being in an environment with bright, motivated, upper-class people was worth it; it changed my perception of status quo forever. The elite see the world through a different lens, something I wasn’t exposed to at home. </p>
<p>So far, my low GPA hasn’t held me back. I got into graduate school (same school) on my first and only attempt. I called up a professor whose research interested me and told him I wanted to be one of his students. He invited me in for an interview. We had a great conversation for over an hour about the specifics of the research. I did my homework, I was able to impress him with what I already knew about the topic (e.g., I had read relevant papers). Then he asked about my grades. I showed him my transcript and gave him the “story.” Before I left, he offered me a spot and personally wrote a letter to the Dean of Engineering to allow me entrance into the program.</p>
<p>When I’m in a position to be hiring people, I’m definitely going to be more interested in applicants coming from top schools with high GPAs. Brains are important. But it has to come down to the interview; I’d take a 3.0 student with interpersonal skills and self-confidence over a 4.0 with a limp handshake who stares at the floor. In a heartbeat! In part this reveals emotional intelligence–something I’d want in any employee–but it also conveys passion. And I think passion creates good work, more than duty or discipline. </p>
<p>I’d wager for every hiring manager out there who won’t consider a 2.7, there’s one who had a 2.7 him/herself. My advice: shoot for a high GPA but maintain your self-worth independently. Persistence will get your wherever you want to go.</p>
<p>There’s always the military option? You could always join the Army Corps of Engineers or a Naval Seabee team. If you have an undergraduate Engineering degree, they’ll definitely take you. I know it doesn’t sound wonderful at first, but consider:</p>
<p>It is a good paying job for an officer. It can also help boost your resume substantially! You’ll show future employers that you can lead, and work well under stress. It also gives you the opportunity to work on multi-million dollar government projects. The possibility of a security clearance also increases your resume.</p>
<p>Just something to think about!</p>
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</p>
<p>Well nurses can put people into their graves so I guess people can end up in their final resting place if we make a mistake. :)</p>
<p>I like the licensing answer better.</p>
<p>In terms of GPA used for medical school or grad school, it makes more sense due to competition of spots. Resources are limited so they want them to go to the ones who show the greatest promise.</p>
<p>If you look in the ads, there are tons of engineering ones so spots are not limited.</p>
<p>As far as region is concerned, are there any areas that have more competition for jobs? </p>
<p>I’m currently in the same boat as the OP and am willing to relocate. I’ve been looking at the west coast for jobs, but I’m of the impression that many others have the same idea.</p>