<p>
</p>
<p>No, pointing out inaccuracies would be making one post, not fifty. Three years is quite a lot in terms of maturity, so why do you bother getting defensive about my “inaccuracies”? I’m one person who has no power. Relax, I’m not going to take away all your financial aid and give it to middle-class kids. So, stop acting that way, it’s embarrassing.</p>
<p>kdog quote</p>
<p>*While I agree with the graduated award (just like Pell) I don’t buy the $81K family should get something. Where do you then draw the line? $85K, $90K? There is always going to be an issue for the ones getting nothing. Just like the ones with EFC’s higher than $4995 not getting anything from Pell. I do think that the ones with $81K would be less bitter if the $79K incomes are not getting much due to a graduating scale.</p>
<h2>P.S. If you tied it to FAFSA EFC like Pell I doubt anyone over $75K would get anything as I imagine the cut-off for Pell is around $70K assuming normal assets.*</h2>
<p>I think you misunderstand. </p>
<p>First of all, the proposal to use FAFSA does NOT mean that a person would need to be Pell Eligible. The proposal to use FAFSA is to take into account multiple siblings in college, family size, and the differences between a 2 income family with X income and a one income family with X income. And to take into account how earned income is different than unearned. </p>
<p>The problem with UC B&G is a huge drop off at the $80k mark. Everyone KNOWS that at SOME point a certain income will get NOTHING. But to go from $14k to NOTHING is ridiculous. That’s a silly drop off.</p>
<p>Let me illustrate…</p>
<p>Current system…</p>
<p>Income $79,500, child gets about $14k in free grants. Even if it’s a one parent/one child family! </p>
<p>Income is $81,000, child gets NOTHING…even if family size is larger, even if it’s a two adult household, even if it’s two parents earning that amount, etc.</p>
<p>Income is $90,000, child gets nothing…even if the household size is 6 and there are 2 in college! ?? that family is supposed to pay $60k+ per year for two in a UC??? Ha!</p>
<p>Can you see that it’s very hard for the $81k family to swallow that they get NOTHING for earning about 1500 more than the other family. If they were just losing out on - say $500 - it would be a “no biggie”. </p>
<p>The issue is that the $79k family shouldnt’ be getting $14k in grants based solely on that income mark. If that student’s EFC is - say $16k because there’s only one parent and one child in the family, then why is that kid getting $14k in grants to attend a $30k COA school???</p>
<p>In a more fair scenario…the benefit would slowly go down to about $500 or so in aid. That way if you just miss the last cutoff you won’t feel cheated for losing out on a few hundred dollars… (that’s the way Pell works. The Pell System doesn’t do this >>>…Oh, you get $5500 if you earn X, but if you earn X+1 dollar, you get nothing. lol)</p>
<p>The below is just an illustration without having done a bunch of math in my head lol, not what I would propose…</p>
<p>EFC = 00000 - 5,000…child gets $16,000 in grants total mix of Fed and Calif state
EFC = 5,001 - 5,500…child gets $15,000 in grants
…
…
EFC = 10,551 - 11,000…child gets $5,000 in grants
…
…
EFC = 15,551 - 16,000 child gets $500 in grants.
EFC = 16,001 child gets no grants.</p>
<p>Yes…there is a cut off where a child gets no grants. But it’s only a $500 loss…not a $14,000 one. Don’t you think it’s easier to swallow that you just missed getting $500 than getting $14,000??? That’s the point.</p>
<p>If I’m continuously doing it, it’s not just one post. It would be one if you only made one. </p>
<p>I never said you had power. I never ever remotely implied that you would take away my “aid”. I haven’t the slightest clue where you pulled that out of. Therefore, I’m not acting that way. </p>
<p>I won’t even bother pointing out what’s embarrassing and what’s not.</p>
<p>Good luck. I hope you figure out something and lose the bitter attitude. It’s not healthy for anyone and gets you no where.</p>
<p>M2CK- I agree with your last post. There does need to be a sliding scale. However, I still don’t think the OP would get any aid and therefore it wouldn’t help her at all. (Or MAYBE she’ll get a little, but not nearly enough to make a significant dent).</p>
<p>I know I am very guilty about posting out of topic and derailing the conversation. That being said, Diana3, Romani is right - at this moment there is no point to continue dwell on unfairness of your situation. You have to figure out workable solution. From what I understand there are two alternatives at this point:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Go to CC for two years, work, save money, bank Stafford and then go to UC for the last 2 years.</p></li>
<li><p>Take a gap year, DO NOT take any classes to preserve freshman status, and apply to a school where you will be guaranteed good financial aid for your stats. I am sure many parents on this board can suggest a good school that will meet your needs and interests.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I might have missed some other alternative, so if I did can somebody else add to my post?</p>
<p>P.S. I completely understand how you feel. You are not alone. And your reaction is understandable. Take a look at “At a loss” thread here. OP in that thread was very upset too. At the end, with the help of other posters here she found a solution that worked for her. And so should you.</p>
<p>Seriously what do you think the percentage is of families in CA who earn just below the threshold of 81k,and the % just above??? AND have children entering college? I bet that the examples beng thrown out are not that prevalent…AND if it were close as pointed in manyposts, why not ask for a paycut to get the grant…i am certain your employer would be willing to cut your salary 500 bucks per year for you to get the grants…</p>
<p>@lerkin, I already posted at least one school where she’d get full tuition. </p>
<p>But hey, what do I know? I’m only worried about her taking away my aid ;)</p>
<p>Also, it almost seems that a 12k EFC is too low for that income. I thought it tends to be about 1/3 of income at that level. Maybe the taxes make a huge difference in EFCs in places like CA and elsewhere? I’m not sure.</p>
<p>polarscribe quote:</p>
<p>Yes, I think this is absolutely important to point out. Dorms and “sleep-away” living costs should be the responsibility of the student and their family, with only very limited exceptions (low-income student in a rural location far away from any state public university, for example).</p>
<p>I agree. Frankly I’m gobsmacked that you think this way. I would have sworn that you’d think the whole COA should be handed over in govt’ grants. lol</p>
<p>Yes, the gov’t grants for dorms/meal plans should definitely require some limits…rural area with no commutable schools, low income, major not at a local school (so dorm money for transfer as junior), etc. </p>
<p>The idea that a person should be handed gov’t money so that they can skip over their local state school with a good program in the major and go away (sometimes to a school that is NOT better in the chosen major) is just crazy. We’re paying for kids to just “get away from parents” so that they can have funded freedom…lol. That’s not the reason for these grants. </p>
<p>This isn’t a joke. We read it here on CC. Kids not wanting to live at home (even tho the local school is good) because that means not having “after school hours” freedoms. That’s fine if they want to fund this or they can get a school to use non-govt funds to do it, but who among us wants to fund R&B just so that student won’t have a parent questioning their drinking and partying???</p>
<p>M2CK- I agree with your last post. There does need to be a sliding scale. However, I still don’t think the OP would get any aid and therefore it wouldn’t help her at all. (Or MAYBE she’ll get a little, but not nearly enough to make a significant dent).</p>
<p>In my scenario, I tried to guess what the cost of tuition/fees/books would be $16k at a UC…(it probably is really $18k) so adjust accordingly. :)</p>
<p>The scenario takes that amount (tuition, fees, books) at a Calif UC and makes that the goal. If that number is $18k, and the student’s EFC is $12k (like the OPs), then she’d get a $6k grant to get to that $18k target. For R&B she’d need loans, additional family funds, and summer work.</p>
<p>*Also, it almost seems that a 12k EFC is too low for that income. I thought it tends to be about 1/3 of income at that level. *</p>
<p>I think you have to be past 100k to get to the 33% mark. And family size contributes as well. With an income in the mid 80s, EFC can be that low sometimes. State taxes do make some difference I think.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, whenever someone initially insults and then offers advice, I’m afraid that that advice isn’t very genuine, especially when the adviser posts a link to University of Alabama, a school in the South where no one wants to attend. But, if your intentions were pure, I apologize and thank you. </p>
<p>Trust me, I’ve taken mom2collegekids’ and HImom’s advice into much consideration.</p>
<p>M2CK- There aren’t too many places where a Pell grant is even going to pay all tuition, let alone have left over money to pay for R&B. Heck even Pell + Stafford loans are often not enough to spill over into R&B. Most of that “left over” money is from loans, private scholarships, or state aid (if you’re lucky enough to be in a state that offers state aid). I do agree that Pell shouldn’t be awarded over the cost of tuition and fees. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, Bama is undoubtedly THE most recommended school on this forum for top students who need merit aid. Soo… there’s that…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Romani,</p>
<p>I think another issue for those who do not get grants is that one of the reasons the tuition is as high as it is at UCs is that they have to raise it on full pays to provide the grants. So, even if OP would not get anything, one would hope with a sliding scale there would not be a need to raise the tuition so much, thus making it affordable even without grants.</p>
<p>^ What one would hope and what will probably happen are two different things. Considering we don’t know the definitive link between costs and aid, I don’t want to make that claim. </p>
<p>Again, COA at my public Michigan U is just a smidge under $25k/year. That is with NO state aid and yet we’re still among the most expensive in the country. I don’t like making links between aid and cost for pretty much that reason.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Ummm, Diana, you may want to take a peek over at the Bama forum here on CC. You will see that M2CK has a kid that attends there. Some of us actually suspect she may be paid by the school to be an ambassador. ;)</p>
<p>Romani,</p>
<p>Of course correlation is not a causation, but my gut (I know very scientific :)) tells me that grants, easy access to loans play a significant role in tuition raises. Just like low rates, government guaranteed loans played a significant role in housing boom. </p>
<p>That being said, at this point of time, the cause of all of this does not matter. Just like you said, OP has to figure out how to make existing system work for her now.</p>
<p>^ Fair enough. And agreed.</p>
<p>Seriously what do you think the percentage is of families in CA who earn just below the threshold of 81k,and the % just above??</p>
<p>With the divorce rate what it is, there’s a lot of single parents in Calif who could earn an amount that is about $10k below that magic number. And, there are many two earner homes where one is earning $45k and the other parent is earning $30k (or some such combo). And the same with those who earn within $10k above that $80k number. There really are a lot of households in that income range.</p>
<p>The point isn’t really the difference when you earn ONE DOLLAR more…it’s really a problem of about a $20k spread. The point is that it’s not fairly graduated. When you consider how many households have incomes between $70k and $90k, that’s a lot of people…and when half are getting $14k and the other half get nothing…that’s silly. </p>
<p>We’ve seen a somewhat similar issue with those few elites that say, “Those who make under $160k will only pay 10%.” Does that mean that the student whose family earns $159k pays $16k and the one whose family earns $161k pays full freight of $60k??? I doubt it. There’s probably some sliding scale at that point.</p>
<p>University of Alabama, a school in the South where no one wants to attend</p>
<p>Diane…if you knew how many OOS kids are at Bama, you’d realize that your statement isn’t correct. Bama has students from all 50 states. And, your state, Calif …is one of its biggest source of students. It’s the 8th ranked state to send kids to Bama.</p>
<p>OP,</p>
<p>while you might not like a thought of attending BAMA, that college is a great gift for many families who have high achieving kids but do not want to or cannot afford to pay anything for college. </p>
<p>I think others on this board said, that you and your family have to sit down together and figure out how much your parents are willing to contribute and how much debt you are willing to take on. If the answer is zero, then BAMA is a great choice. If it is not zero, then if you publish that number people on this board can recommend other choices.</p>
<p>M2CK- There aren’t too many places where a Pell grant is even going to pay all tuition, let alone have left over money to pay for R&B. Heck even Pell + Stafford loans are often not enough to spill over into R&B</p>
<p>Romani…I totally agree. That’s why my suggestion is that the state school determine how much tuition, fees, books are as kind of a Basic Cost.…and that be the goal for a combo of grants and EFC.</p>
<p>So…for a O EFC student…</p>
<p>if a UC school’s Basic Cost is $17k and a O EFC student gets $5500 in Pell, $500 in SEOG, then the state should cough up the remaining $11k to get to that $17k mark.</p>
<p>If the student has an EFC of 10,000, then provide $7k to get to the $17k mark.</p>
<p>THEN…student loans, work-study, family funds, summer work can fund R&B if desired.</p>
<p>Does that make sense? </p>
<p>State schools with pricey instate tuition need their states to provide grants up to Basic Cost…taking EFC into consideration. :)</p>
<p>Diana3 said, “I’m afraid that that advice isn’t very genuine, especially when the adviser posts a link to University of Alabama, a school in the South where no one wants to attend.”</p>
<p>Wow…just wow.</p>
<p>Fact: Romani’s advice was genuine (and included an appropriate recommendation).
Fact: I know many high-stat kids who attend and plan to attend.</p>
<p>
I’m not seeing how that would work. If they said, say, that everyone below a certain income level would be able to graduate with no more than $20K in student loans, there would still be some who graduated with zero and some with $20K, and some families who would be taking out additional loans on top of the $20K. </p>
<p>Can you expound on your idea with perhaps some case study examples?</p>
<p>ETA: and FGS can anyone explain to me why Alabama is able to do this when most (or no) other state schools can?</p>
<p>OP,</p>
<p>This is a long thread so I only scanned many of the posts. It seems like your EFC is ~12k and you are Regents Scholar at several UCs like Davis, Irvine, Santa Barbara.</p>
<p>I know several students who are Regents Scholars at various UCs including my son. For UC Berkeley and UCLA, if you are a Regents Scholar, all of the COA above your EFC will be covered by scholarships/grants. No loans. You still have to pay the EFC.</p>
<p>Other UCs offer something similar. Have you checked your financial package with the UCs that you got Regents Scholar? </p>
<p>I doubt that you have to pay too much more than your EFC. Regents Scholar are always given merit based scholarship (not very much) and need based scholarships/grants (can be a lot depending on your EFC). It is not true that you need to take out $30k loan to attend a UC where you are a Regents Scholar. My son got Regents from many UCs and they all offered him good money including UCLA where he is attending.</p>
<p>Also students can live very cheap and come under the COA by 2 to 3 thousand dollars. Part time job during school year and summer job can contribute some also.</p>
<p>Depending on your college major, GPA, work experience, activities, you might be able to find summer job that pay pretty well.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>