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<p>This made me LOL.</p>
<p>Only a little more than this:</p>
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<p>cptofthehouse and sylvan8798, you’re my new favorite posters. 
Someone on the Stanford forum claimed that being middle-class was more or less being poor today, and that the poor are better off because they get benefits Next time, I’ll just advise that they become poor - it’s much easier than trying to get them to realize their ignorance. ;)</p>
<p>Any one who thinks the poor has it easy, have a family meeting, have the family agree to live as if their income is really low ($25k? $30k?). May mean moving to the other side of the tracks, getting rid of the second family car, may mean birthday lists better not have anything on them over a few bucks, and of course, the cell phones go bye bye.</p>
<p>Then, magically, you’ll likely have enough for your EFC. :)</p>
<p>Hey, all you middle-class posters who are jealous of the poor, who think the poor have it easy, here’s a news flash: how about being jealous of the rich? You know, those folks who finish with the same degree as you did…and have absolutely NO debt, subsidized or not? Those folks who might have less impressive GPAs and SATs, but whose relatives can contribute 6 and 7 figure sums to the college on a regular basis? </p>
<p>Somewhere, some .1-percenters are laughing themselves sick at how easy it is to divert people’s anger.</p>
<p>But slithey! Don’t you know that only the rich can make the world work? And the rich should get special treatment because without them there would be no jobs. None I tell ya! None! :p</p>
<p>Excellent point, SlitheyTove. </p>
<p>Let’s focus on the increasingly high cost of college for BOTH the poor and the lower to medium middle class. College costs are out of control, and the multi-level pricing isn’t helping. </p>
<p>30 years ago to go to my college: I was able to pay ON MY OWN for my first semester with 90 hours of minimum wage work (pre-tax)</p>
<p>Today to go to that very same college: It takes about 400 hours of minimum wage work (pre-tax) for a student to be able to pay for a semester.</p>
<p>Tried to edit post to add that it was about 100 hours of minimum wage work (I subtracted insurance fee incorrectly) to pay for one semester 30 years ago.</p>
<p>Now becoming rich, that is a whole other story… BUt really, any family who wants to have a zero EFC can have one. </p>
<p>I do get what the kids are saying. When you take a given kid with a zero EFC who has hit the lottery on financial aid and gotten a generous package, and his roommate has an EFC that is just about the COA of a college, so he gets zero aid, them eyes do start glowing green. The roommate with less may come with great regalia with family members celebrating his good luck with generous gifts for the send off. The upper/middle class kid’s family is scrimping every inch of the way with brows knit together admonishing said kid to get a job on campus as soon as possible, watch the costs, etc, etc. That kid may be painfully aware that parents have taken a huge hunk of money out of savings, and is stretching the budget to pay for the college, and he probably has also take the max Stafford loans and spent the summer pounding salt to make some spending and supplies money. The middle class kid does a slow burn while the full ride kid is asking how voucher can be gotten so he can get his books at the book store, while the roommate is on line looking for the best deal on used books and asking around if there are any upperclassman that can sell him those books cheaper than that even. He may be using an older computer since it was perfectly good while his roommate is trying to figure out the new fangled one that he got from the college because his package also included a computer. </p>
<p>Yes, I can see how that can crate. You’re only looking at one part of the elephant, is the problem. Also you are with someone who won the lottery ticket. Not many of those full rides floating around, I guarantee you. Jealousy can so cloud perspective.</p>
<p>I drive a clunker by choice. Some insurance issues make it a prudent choice, but our family has never put much emphasis on cars. Safe and reliable is all we want. But it’s not prettty. I can be envious of the really nice cars I see other driving. Many of the kids around here have cars that are much nicer than mine. But the car is only one part of the picture.</p>
<p>So it is with someone who may be getting a free ride or low cost ride at college with all of the amenities.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids
Parents with McJobs cannot even pay for a new glass in the window that was broken, they put pillow in the hole. It is really a huge really check to get into a “McJob” neighborhood and see several “pillow” windows along the street. I guess these people are not even afraid of thieves, there is nothing to steal inside.</p>
<p>At S’ current #1 choice, Barbara Ehrenreich is speaking this week. He did a project for school earlier this year on her book *Nickel and Dimed<a href=“for%20which%20she%20takes%20a%20minimum%20wage%20job%20and%20tries%20to%20live%20on%20it%20for%20a%20period%20of%20time”>/I</a>. His project involved a similar situation except it was research, they didn’t have to actually live it. But he had to come up with a job, place to live, budget for meal plans (and the meals had to include all food groups etc and they had to bring in real prices from stores), transportation plans (public,car, insurance, whatever), everything, and make it actually possible to do in our nearby large city. I thought it was a really cool project.</p>
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<p>What that kid doesn’t realize is how much of a sacrifice “poor” kid’s parents are making just for things such as transportation costs. It’s rare that the “poor” kid hits the financial aid jackpot, but hasn’t that kid and parents have to do more with less for the last 18 years? </p>
<p>I’ve certainly made significant cutbacks since kids have been in college. It’s not fun and I don’t want to do it the rest of my life. Even then, I don’t live close to the life that the “poor family” does.</p>
<p>GTalum, I agree with you fully. However, a kid may not see any of that. They just see a small part of that kid’s world, and that part looks mighty fine to him as he is struggling with issues that are PAID IN FULL for the other kid. </p>
<p>My son has a cousin in the same school as his. The cousin is on a ROTC scholarship and he’s an only child. He has a lot more discretionary funds than my son, though our family is more affluent. That my son can see that the kid is earning is way through ROTC makes it easy to see the trade offs, but what if the kid had gotten a financial aid package of that size instead? You can see where it can seem unjust as my son works 3 jobs during the summer, works during the school year and has to carefully plan out in advance for anything that costs a hunk of change. We have a big family and we can’t focus on his wants. It took three trips to get his cousin’s stuff to his room, and one easy trip to get my son’s thing to his room. He’s the 4th kid in our family going to college, so I didn’t buy much at all for him and advised him to pack light. But if you looked at the amenities in the dorm rooms, there is no question, my son’s is far sparcer. He is also paying for every bit of his living expenses outside of the dorm room and a mid sized meal plan. College is illusionary in terms of whose families are truly on better financial footing.</p>
<p>i just have to add my two cents to this thread. Our EFC is around 14k. Our state schools will be about 26-30k (including room & board) for 2012/13. We went through the Financial Aid process and got nothing but stafford loans from all of the state schools. So yes, we are expected to foot the bill for about 30k per year. It really is a joke for middle class families. And the state schools are supposed to be our affordable option.</p>
<p>^ How much is tuition? As M2CK, “sleep away” is a luxury, not a requirement.</p>
<p>It looks like you’re looking at The College of New Jersey. Tuition there is ~14k. Steep, but almost exactly your EFC.</p>
<p>You people with this “sleep away” is a luxury thing!!! Yikes! Not everyoneone lives close enough to commute from their parents’ home! Sometimes living on campus is a must!</p>
<p>You’re telling me that there are NO colleges in New Jersey where your child can commute?</p>
<p>I don’t live in New Jersey, so there legitimately might not be. I know for a fact that it’s not possible in all of Michigan (especially in the UP). All I’m saying is that it’s not a necessity for most students.</p>
<p>Oh and fwiw- I do go to “sleep away” college. Because I work for my apartment (and before worked for my R&B and some of it was covered by scholarships) and such. So it’s not like I’m against it, I just don’t think it’s a necessity for students.</p>
<p>Well, all i’m saying is that you all seem to like to make gross generalizations about what people should and shouldn’t be able to do. So in Michigan it’s not a luxury to go to “sleep away” college?</p>
<p>^ I didn’t say that now did I? I said it’s a luxury, not a necessity for the majority of students. My sister commuted and most of my friends from high school commuted. Here in Michigan, like everywhere else, it’s a luxury. If you don’t have the financial resources (through either your parents, yourself, or scholarships/aid) you don’t get that luxury. There’s a reason that most states have satellite campuses or directional schools. </p>
<p>I got that “luxury” because I was fortunate enough to get private scholarships, some public aid, loans and because I worked from a fairly young age and continue to work to pay the majority of my R&B. (Btw- my taxpayer funded money, Pell and loans, didn’t even fully cover tuition and I have an EFC of 0). If I didn’t get that, I would have been commuting. The majority of my “luxury” comes from my own work money.</p>
<p>Njcdmom…</p>
<p>Those of us who’ve commented that the sleep away experience is a luxury ALSO note that needy students who don’t live near a Cc or public U should get assistance. </p>
<p>However, many/most people live near a CC (to do the first two years) and many live near a state univ to finish. </p>
<p>Are you suggesting that because a small minority of people don’t have a commutable option that the sleepaway experience be available to everyone via taxpayer aid??</p>
<p>you all seem to like to make gross generalizations about what people should and shouldn’t be able to do</p>
<p>??? </p>
<p>People can do whatever the heck they want on their dollar, merit scholarships, or institutional (non taxpayer) funds. But to expect taxpayers to pay…that’s a different story.</p>