Suggestion for match/Reasonable reach schools

Parents Forum
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<p>My son is a junior at a competitive HS and we are looking for some suggestions.</p>

<p>EC and Community services: Not great but not bad either
UWGPA: 3.95
ACT: 35 PSAT: 224 SAT: March
SAT II: Math Level 2 (800), Physics (June), USH (June)
Course load: Calculus, Physics, Chemistry, USH, English, Economics, Spanish 4</p>

<p>After reading ‘My Chances’ 200 milion times, so far we have</p>

<p>Matches:
Reasonable Reaches:Pomona, Wash U</p>

<p>Do you have suggestions other than religious or southern schools?</p>

2

<p>Can you tell us more about your son? What field is he interested in? Has he won any big awards? What kind of EC’s does he have and what are his roles in them? Does he have a particular activity he is passionate about? Does he have special talents? Do you require financial aid? How are his relationships with his teachers in core subjects? What kind of campus environment does he like or dislike?</p>

<p>The more you tell us the more meaningful our suggestions will be.</p>

3

<p>With those scores and that gpa, it would seem to me that he would have as good of a chance as almost anyone anywhere. You can’t really get much higher than that. What is he looking for in a school? Because people could list every school in the country that is not in the south or religious and it would fit your criteria. The Ivies are reaches for everyone but no more for him than anyone else. Johns Hopkins maybe? Carnegie Mellon? Northwestern? All a little bit easier to get into but still very difficult.</p>

4

<p>My son does not know what he wants to study yet.
He won some local math contest awards and he was an AIME qualifier. He likes to write and he likes gardening.
School size does not matter to him but he does not like a school in the middle of a big city.
We do not need full ride but we need some financial aid.
He is from the Midwest but he does not mind going east or west.</p>

5

<p>Also, my son is not a big fan of HYPSM. We are not looking for super reach schools but reasonable reach schools. Thanks.</p>

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<p>If your kid continues to have consistent test scores and grades, and if he’s taking the most challenging curriculum available, then you have a pleasant dilemma: there are no “matches” for kids like that, really. The colleges with large concentrations of kids like that are all highly selective, and no one is really a slam dunk to be accepted (without all of those numbers plus pro-level sports ability, or a grandfather for whom the library is named).</p>

<p>You have to live with that. Find a safety or two he likes, and then apply to a range of reaches. (The definition of a “safety” is probably a little different for kids like that, too.) Look at the top 40 USNWR national universities, and the top 20 or 30 national LACs. Look at “Colleges That Change Lives”. Look at state university honors programs. They’re all on the table. The ones in those groups towards the bottom of the selectivity ladder are going to be safeties or near-safeties for him, as will most public universities. Colleges with admission rates in the 20% range or higher are probably the functional equivalent of matches.</p>

<p>Pomona actually is tougher than that – one of the three or four most selective LACs. Not that he shouldn’t apply, but you can’t look at it as a “likely”. But Reed, or Carleton, Oberlin, Wesleyan, Macalaster, Grinnell, Haverford, Hamilton, Vassar, Whitman, Bowdoin . . . there are some pretty great colleges where he probably has an even chance of acceptance, or close to it, and some others where his chances will be better than that. You should also look at Pomona’s sibs, Harvey Mudd (for math/sci/engineer types) and Claremont-McKenna.</p>

<p>On the university side, you could look at the rest of WashU’s athletic conference – Chicago, Carnegie-Mellon, NYU, Brandeis, Rochester (and others). Plus Tufts, Johns Hopkins, USC, Northwestern, Vanderbilt. Cornell. Georgetown.</p>

<p>And that’s not counting the real super-reaches. He shouldn’t shy away from considering a few of those.</p>

<p>You have a lot of work to do. There aren’t any doors that are actually closed for a kid like that, so you have to give real thought to what you are looking for in order to narrow things down.</p>

7

<p>Does he have to decide his major when he applies?
Are LACs good choice if he is undecided? I heard that they have limited choices.</p>

8

<p>NoIdeaDad: with a 224 PSAT, no matter what state he’s in, he’ll make National Merit Semi Finalist. With his GPA & hopefully SAT scores to back up the PSAT score, he should go on to make National Merit Finalist. </p>

<p>You may want to look at schools that offer NMF merit packages. Keilexandra has a great thread in the scholarship area on that. </p>

<p>While you’ve said he’ll go East or West, do you have any travel concerns? Direct flights only? Drivable only? Sports? Greek life? </p>

<p>As a recent NE transplant to the south, I’d say that he should keep his mind open about Southern schools, if only because there are a number of them that have exceptional merit opportunities for NMFs. </p>

<p>good luck & have fun!</p>

9

<p>Reasonable Reaches: Northwestern, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, Williams (ED), Amherst (ED), Middlebury, Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd</p>

<p>Match: Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, University of Virginia, Bowdoin, University of Rochester, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Haverford, Washington & Lee</p>

10

<p>My child is okay with math but I don’t see him studying math or engineering. I think he is interested in political science or business. (We do not ask since we want him to decide but I think he told his friend once that he wants to study political science or business.)
What will be good schools for both political science/business and math/engineering (just in case he changes his mind)?
Also, will the list of match schools and reasonably reach schools change if he is an Asian American?
I am not into ‘the race things’ but we need to be realistic.</p>

11

<p>

It depends on the college and major. Generally he wouldn’t need to decide his major when he applies but some universities or some schools within the U, for example the School of Engineering, may require that the major be declared up front to be admitted to that school. Some colleges want an indication of ‘desired major’ but they’re really not ‘declaring a major’.</p>

<p>Even if he declared his major up front he can usually change it later. It’s important to make sure the college offers an adequate range of majors he’d be interested in once he makes up his mind.</p>

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<p>My kid is attending one of the most elite high schools in the country. Does it help?</p>

<p>I feel like a kid in a gigantic candy store. I have so many questions. Also, thanks for all your help and suggestions.</p>

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<p>NID: There are about 50,000 threads on CC about LACs vs. universities. I’m kind of a university guy, but unless you want an engineering degree, need to be involved in large-scale scientific research, or have a strong, unshakeable desire to study something really obscure, LACs are fine. They are more intimate, supportive places. They DO have research opportunities. Students tend to outgrow them, but not usually much before they are finished, and they are more likely to do things like a semester abroad. The most academic of them eventually produce more PhDs per capita than any of the universities, and have good professional-school placement success, too.</p>

<p>Anyway, I wrote what I did above before seeing the “no middle of big cities” criterion. (Is that yours, or his? Lots of students like being in the middle of big cities.) Following that would cut down the list considerably. If he likes Pomona and WashU, to me that says he thinks suburban-type locations are optimal.</p>

<p>So I’m going to suggest: Stanford, Princeton, Cornell, Dartmouth, WashU, Carnegie-Mellon, Pomona, Claremont-McKenna, Swarthmore, Amherst, Haverford, Carleton, Oberlin, Reed, Michigan, UVa, [your state university], and [some other less selective LAC] as places to start. He won’t apply to all of them (I hope), but if he researches them and thinks about what he likes, and maybe visits a few places, that will help him figure out what to cut, what to keep, and where else to look.</p>

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<p>Your S has top stats and is competitive for any college. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. The 35 on the ACT is equivalent to a 2340/2400 or a 1560/1600 for the SAT. </p>

<p>I think JHS’s excellent post contains a lot of good information. </p>

<p>Does your school give you a Naviance account?</p>

<p>My D has very high stats also. I found Naviance scattergrams to be extremely helpful in assessing my D’s chances for highly competitive schools. Once you know your son’s point, you can estimate his chances at each school. </p>

<p>I disagree that there are no matches. The situation is not THAT bad. Based on our Naviance, Pomona would have been a match for D had she applied. Surprisingly, some other examples of matches would have been Harvard, Johns Hopkins, and Northwestern. Most LACs were matches. The one’s that weren’t were the usual suspects, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore. </p>

<p>We didn’t know, for example, that it is a bit easier to get into Harvard from public schools around the Boston area because Harvard wants to educate the future local leaders. I’ve since found an article to that effect. </p>

<p>On the other hand, Georgetown, Stanford, Penn, and Washington U seemed to be the most difficult schools to get into with no rhyme or reason with regard to who did get in. Except for Stanford, I never would have guessed that just by looking at just national data. Most of the other reach schools took a few kids with great stats. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

15

<p>As a recent NE transplant to the south, I’d say that he should keep his mind open about Southern schools, if only because there are a number of them that have exceptional merit opportunities for NMFs.</p>

<p>I am a California transplant to the South, and I completely agree with the above. There are thousands of transplants in the south, and therefore the best southern schools are not “deep south” anymore. Many students at these schools have roots from other parts of the country.</p>

<p>You say that you don’t need a full-ride, but need some financial aid. I’m guessing that you mean that you want grants, not loans, for financial aid. Is that right? If so, you need target schools that don’t put big loans in financial aid packages. Keep in mind that most out-of-state publics do not give their FA funds to out-of-state students. For instance, UMich costs $50k per year. It won’t give you any FA except a small amount if you’re low income.</p>

<p>How much can you afford to contribute? When your son start school, many privates will be costing about $55-60k per year. The amount that you can contribute each year will make a difference with college selection.</p>

<p>Might your son be interested in…</p>

<p>law school, </p>

<p>med school, </p>

<p>pharmacy school?</p>

<p>MBA program?</p>

<p>If so, then you might want to consider a free ride or “near free ride” so that you can put your money towards professional school, so that your son won’t have big debt when he graduates. (For example…My sons accepted the free-ride and “near free ride” because one wants to go to med school and the other wants to go to law school, so we (the parents) can help pay for that. If we had spent their education money on undergrad, they’d have to borrow $100-250k for professional school.)</p>

<p><a href=“We%20do%20not%20ask%20since%20we%20want%20him%20to%20decide%20but%20I%20think%20he%20told%20his%20friend%20once%20that%20he%20wants%20to%20study%20political%20science%20or%20business.”>I</a>
*</p>

<p>Of course you want your child to decide his major/career, but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t ASK him what careers interest him. Asking him **isn’t **telling him what to do. Asking shows that you want to help him find suggestions that fit HIM. You need to ASK. :)</p>

<p>What will be good schools for both **political science/business and math/engineering <a href=“just%20in%20case%20he%20changes%20his%20mind”>/B</a>?</p>

<p>Reaches…</p>

<p>UPenn
Cornell
Emory (not sure if they meet need without loans)
Wash U (but doesn’t meet need)
NYU (terrible financial aid, so probably not)
Georgetown (not sure if they meet need without loans)</p>

<p>Matches
Purdue (because they will give OOS merit)
Wake Forest (merit - but doesn’t meet need & puts loans in FA packages)
UVirginia (a rare public that gives FA to OOS students)
Georgia Tech (no financial aid to OOS, but “may” give competitive merit)
URochester (merit)</p>

<p>Safeties
Ohio State (merit)
UPitt (merit)
Alabama (full ride if NMF)
Arizona St (altho scholarships have been reduced there)</p>

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<p>ClassicRockDad: What is Naviance account?</p>

<p>JHS: Yes, he likes suburban-type schools. He was born and raised in a small city(?).</p>

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<p>The Fiske Guide and Naviance were our most helpful starting points.</p>

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<p>Mom2collegekids: Our income level is about 100K and we can contribute about $30K-35K per year. Do you think he can go to a private college? Will he get enough FA? We do not want him to have a student loan baggage when he graduate from a college.</p>

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<p>Given your finance stated above, your son should be able to afford all need-blind schools. Btw, having a manageable student loan is not a bad thing - it gives some responsibility to your son. People are motivated when they have their skin in the game.</p>

<p>[Need-blind</a> admission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission]Need-blind”>Need-blind admission - Wikipedia)</p>

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<p>NID, Here is a previous thread with many links to free Naviance sites for schools with guest access</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/245650-naviance-2.html?highlight=naviance[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/245650-naviance-2.html?highlight=naviance&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Look for the scattergrams. These plot SAT vs. GPA and use a green dot for admit, red dot for deny and a blue dot for waitlist. I know the Hunterdon site has them available. From them you can pick a school, find your S’s point and look at a reasonable group of neighbors to see how they fared. Since all schools have different grading systems, the colleges over time begin to calibrate your school’s grading to a norm. I think that’s why our high performing public school did much better than one would expect from just looking at national data. Our grading is pretty harsh. </p>

<p>We were given an account with access to our school’s data during the latter half of D’s junior year. This was the most valuable piece of information that we had.</p>