Suggestions for Engineering Programs

College Search & Selection
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<p>Maggiemom- my DD was told by the GA Tech rep that they wouldn’t even seriously consider her application without calculus. I asked “what about if it isn’t due to any fault of the student?” and she replied that is was a deal breaker. Also the EA deadline has passed and GA Tech takes about 70% of its class from EA. I also think the merit deadline is connected to EA but I could be wrong. </p>

<p>One place we found that reasonably priced and hands-on engineering was Oregon State. They give lots of money for students to do their own projects.</p>

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<p>[Rigor</a> of Curriculum and GPA | Admission](<a href=“Blow the Whistle! (404 error: page not found) | Undergraduate Admission”>Blow the Whistle! (404 error: page not found) | Undergraduate Admission) does not indicate that calculus is required by Georgia Tech for admission.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.ece.gatech.edu/academics/undergrad/CmpE_Degree_Requirements_2012-2013.pdf#page=3[/url]”>http://www.ece.gatech.edu/academics/undergrad/CmpE_Degree_Requirements_2012-2013.pdf#page=3&lt;/a&gt; lists the EE major as starting with calculus 1.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.me.gatech.edu/files/ug/program_of_study_me1314.pdf[/url]”>http://www.me.gatech.edu/files/ug/program_of_study_me1314.pdf&lt;/a&gt; lists the ME major as starting with calculus 1.</p>

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<p>I am wondering about Villanova (he’s not applied yet) for engineering. Harvey Mudd looks so awesome, but no kids from his school have ever been accepted (even those with 1600/1600 SAT; My son has 1490/1600). We looked at Cal Poly SLO and were really impressed, but when it came down to it, he probably wants to be closer to home (Maryland) and wants to be near his twin. I’d really like him to have a look at smaller schools that’s why I was thinking Villanova. also, what do you all think about Lafayette or Bucknell? Programs good? Is anyone familiar with Clemson engineering? Thank you for all your ideas and sharing your experiences going through this process…</p>

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<p>@Maggiemom - Villanova is good, and so is Drexel in Philadelphia. In Eastern PA, I would look at Lehigh before Bucknell and Lafayette.</p>

<p>Earlier in the thread, you asked about Jesuit schools with engineering. St Louis University is one with several majors. Duquesne University is just starting one in biomedical engineering, but I would be leery of a brand new program.</p>

<p>If you are considering Alabama, also take a look at Texas A&M and SUNY-Buffalo. Both of those have better engineering reputations than Alabama, and both offer merit aid for out-of-state students. (At TAMU, this takes the form of a waiver to pay in-state tuition rates).</p>

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<p>@whydoicare-thanks for the information. I like Villanova as a whole college experience and and will encourage him to apply there. My son did apply to Alabama and received a Presidential Scholarship and an engineering dept scholarship. He loves the AE program, but several students he met with locally intimated that the Greek scene kind of dominates there. I’m not anti-Greek per se, but knowing my son, he is very kind and introspective and very far from the attention seeking, gotta be the life of the party kind of kid. Would love to find a school where he can enjoy the company of other like-minded, sweet kids. Would love to know about schools that really have strong student/professor interaction and maybe smaller size overall. I don’t know much about Lehigh, but will look into it. Also will check out Texas A & M and SUNY Buffalo.</p>

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<p>Two schools of thought on this. Some say any ABET-accredited engineering school is fine, you’ll basically get the same engineering curriculum anywhere. Others say the school’s reputation really does matter because graduates of the most highly regarded schools will have the most, and the most attractive, job opportunities. Other things equal, I’d be inclined toward the latter view.</p>

<p>Alabama’s automatic merit aid is great, but I’d be concerned about its middling ranking as an engineering school (#92 in US News), its high student-faculty ratio (20:1 which is on the high side even for a public flagship), its relatively low graduation rate (67% graduate in 6 years), and its middling student body (middle 50% ACT 22-30, middle 50% SAT CR+M 1000-1260, though it is bringing in more high-stats students now with merit scholarships). </p>

<p>In contrast, a school like Case Western is more highly regarded in engineering (#35 US News), and has a better student-faculty ratio (10:1), a better graduation rate (78% graduate in 6 years, not terrific but substantially better than Alabama), and a stronger student body (middle 50% ACT 29-33, middle 50% SAT CR+M 1260-1480, i.e., Case Western’s 25th percentile is roughly the same as Alabama’s 75th percentile). Case Western is also known for giving very good merit aid to the students it most wants.</p>

<p>Graduation rate is a big deal, perhaps especially for engineering students. Engineering is hard and many courses are sequenced, so failing a class–or getting closed out of registration for one–can set the student back a semester or sometimes a year. And some schools have cultures and support systems that encourage and facilitate on-time graduation, others less so.</p>

<p>Here are the 6-year graduation rates (university-wide) for some schools with top 35-ish engineering programs; I don’t have access to graduation rates for engineering specifically, but my guess is the engineering grad rate is in most cases probably somewhat lower than for the university as a whole:</p>

<p>Columbia 97%, Princeton 96%, Stanford 95%, Duke 95%, Johns Hopkins 94%, MIT 93%, Cornell 93%, Northwestern 93%, Caltech 92%, Rice 92%, UCLA 92%, UC Berkeley 91%, Michigan 91%, USC 90%, Lehigh 88%, Carnegie Mellon 87%, Penn State 86%, UCSD 86%, UC Davis 85%, Illinois 84%, RPI 84%, Wisconsin 83%, Virginia Tech 83%, U Maryland 82%, Ohio State 82%, Texas A&M 80%, U Washington 80%, Georgia Tech 79%, Texas 79%, Case Western 78%, Minnesota 73%, NC State 71%, Iowa State 71%, Purdue 70%, U Colorado-Boulder 68%.</p>

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<p>ABET accreditation does ensure meeting a relatively high minimum standard, so there shouldn’t be a bad ABET accredited engineering curriculum. However, the curricula can differ, so one school may be better, or a better academic fit for a given student*, compared to another.</p>

<p>Recruiting for one’s first job out of school can differ. Non-local recruiting may be better at higher reputation-in-engineering schools and larger schools, for example.</p>

<p>*For example, some subspecialties within a given engineering major may be much better represented at one school compared to another; this may affect the offerings available as within-major electives.</p>

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<p>Graduation rate tracks admission selectivity rather strongly. A more worthwhile study may be to see if a school has a higher or lower graduation rate relative to what one would expect from the characteristics of its entering students.</p>

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<p>The scores you posted are above the 75th percentile for Georgia tech. I think he could get in. It’s probably the best engineering school in the southeast, so I think it would be a great idea to apply.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure I buy that. Yes, it’s true that graduation rate tracks admission selectivity. It only stands to reason that better qualified students are more likely to successfully complete college. There’s also probably a positive correlation between graduation rate and institutional resources–and I’m thinking specifically here about financial aid budgets. It’s probably no coincidence that the schools with the highest graduation rates listed in post #46 are all meets-full-need or, in the case of the publics, meets full need for in-state students. I think the financial challenges faced by students at schools that don’t meet full need are in many cases a major barrier to on-time graduation. Students take reduced course loads to save money; or they work part-time and attend college part-time; or they take entire semesters or years off from their studies before returning–though in some cases their career plans change, or life-changing events like marriage and/or children intervene. There’s nothing wrong with any of that. But when I was looking at colleges with my daughters, I was thinking about the traditional 4-year college experience, and schools where the 6-year graduation rate dipped into the 70% or 60% range just didn’t seem conducive to the type of educational experience we were looking for.</p>

<p>And I’m not sure I want to let a school with a 60-70% 6-year graduation rate off the hook just because the lower caliber of its entering class might suggest an even lower graduation rate. According to US News, UC Berkeley and the University of Alabama both outperform their “predicted graduation rate” by 2 percentage points. But I’m not prepared to say on that basis the UC Berkeley and Alabama are doing an equally fine job, because the reality is that Alabama graduates only 67% of its students within 6 years, while UC Berkeley graduates 91%. Alabama’s weaker entering class may be one reason for that disparity, but in my book a weaker entering class is another strike against Alabama, not a point in its favor.</p>

<p>I do think a school like Case Western having an actual graduation rate 9 points below its predicted rate is some cause for concern, however. I’d at least want to know what’s going on there that might cause such a disparity.</p>

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<p>A “better” engineering student will likely enter Alabama with plenty of AP credits, as UA is quite generous with AP. Also, many UA engineering students are in the honors college, which includes priority registration, a perk that cannot be understated. Bottom line, a reasonably accomplished high school student entering UA engineering will have no problem graduating on time, often with double majors, minors, or grad credits.</p>

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<p>Graduation rates - keep in mind that at some schools a student who decides they don’t want to stick with engineering can switch into a liberal arts major and graduate from that university, while at a STEM school such as RPI, those students will typically transfer out and thus hurt the school’s graduation rate. So while it is worth looking at graduation rates, interpreting them is a little more complicated I think. It is more useful when comparing schools of a similar type such as large state schools.
It is definitely worth investigating what support mechanisms are in place for students who start to struggle with the engineering curriculum. Those can vary a lot and can make all the difference.</p>