<p>@mom2collegekids:</p>
<p>You do have a point. However, the average starting salary for all college grads is still $40K+. If a kid is bright, hard working, and has a quantitative aptitude (as this kid seems to) which he develops, carrying the max Stafford still shouldn’t be much of a burden.</p>
<p>BTW, as for pre-med, the biggest risk with getting loans there, IMO, is if they don’t get in to med school. The bar for graduating with a useful degree if you have quant skills is far lower.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s just my experience, but the number of kids with such high SAT math and overall SAT scores who are quantitatively inclined enough to want to be engineers at 18 ending up not learning much at school and graduating with a useless degree seems fairly tiny. I did see a lot of people start out in a STEM major and then switch to another STEM major (including myself), but very few folks switched out of STEM to a completely non-quantitative major. After all, there is always econ. :)</p>
<p>Also, many federal loans can be income-based now:</p>
<p><a href=“https://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-based”>https://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-based</a></p>
<p>In fact, while education loans are generally non-dischargable (the income-based ones may be forgiven after 25 years), there are actually many options if, God forbid, you graduate and are unemployed:</p>
<p><a href=“How to Get Rid of Student Loans | Nolo”>http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-get-out-student-loan-debt.html</a></p>
<p>“A deferment excuses you from making student loan payments for a set period of time because of a specific condition in your life – such as returning to school, economic hardship, or unemployment. Interest will not accrue on subsidized loans during the deferment period.”</p>
<p>Federal loans at these amounts just aren’t that scary for an engineer. Plus, as someone who has carried (and continues to carry) a Stafford which I am in no hurry to repay, I can tell you that if you pay on time every month, the interest eventually goes down. The interest on my Stafford loans now are essentially nothing (< 1% a year).</p>
<p>I definitely wouldn’t shy away from the minimal debt that you’re talking about. Your taking about expected career earnings in the $3-4 million range. $6000 per year is minimal and not a burden at all. </p>
<p>Backing up a bit I’m with M2CK on this one. If this student lived in Mass one of the top privates (Stanford, MIT, Cornell) would likely end up the cheapest option … while UMass would cost $20+k … so Bama would end up as a very reasonable middle ground. Similarly ranked school than UMass (Bama has pulled ahead) and at about 1/2 the price … definitely worth considering. Bama and other big merit schools may provide a great financial back-up to the full financial aid schools.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>While the Emory/GT 3-2 program is very good, any time you add a year to graduation, it’s never a low cost option. After transferring to GT, you’ll likely paying OOS tuition with no “freshmen” scholarships, it can be fairly expensive.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>@PurpleTitan @ClassicRockerDad </p>
<p>I don’t recall dismissing the idea of taking out Stafford loans; in fact I suggested those in my post upthread. I don’t think it’s a good idea for an 18 yo to pursue a path of LARGER loans if there are options where larger loans can be avoided.</p>
<p>I agree…since the new eng’g grads can start a good salary, paying back staffords shouldn’t be a huge deal. </p>
<p>CRD…an engineering program at most any university is going to attract very strong students. The less than strong will be weeded out the first semester or year. </p>
<p>Alabama has an excellent engineering program great facilities and staff, and proximity to internship and shadowing opportunities, never mind jobs. And for a strong student, it would be financially a great choice as well.</p>
<p>And it’s ABET accredited which is really what matters in the world of engineering (except in the world of those who think only MIT and equivalent are worthy).</p>
<p>If total household income is really under 40K per year, you will get a lot of need based aid. If I recall correctly, UC-Berkeley is basically free if household income is under 85K. Not sure how much is loans. Highly recommend doing net price calculators at a number of schools.</p>
<p>If merit is really where you want to go, there are a lot of choices. ^mom should be getting paid by Alabama. Our S1 considered it, but did not like the campus as well as OU. To him, 'Bama buildings all looked similar and he is directionaly challenged. He figured he may get lost more often. 'Bama would be a good choice, but there are a lot of good schools he can consider as safeties. OU also gives a bunch of merit money. No mention on OP on how he did on the PSAT. If that is over the cutoff, he may be an NMF which would open doors at a few schools (see entire section on NMF rides).</p>
<p>mom is right about the schools though. Fine to shoot for some of the top choices CRD suggested, but they are tough admits for anyone. Best to have a safety that will cover most of the cost with scholarships, not loans. The ‘money’ you often get for ‘financial aid’ is in the form of loans. That is not really aid, it is deferred debt that can encumber a student for years after graduating. be sure to check the details on everything.</p>
<p>I lend money for a living and one of the biggest burdens for people whose portfolio comes across my desk is student debt. Too many people telling them that they will get a high paying job and that they can pay off the loans. The problem is that they also want to have a decent place to live, a car, their own ‘stuff’ and the loans make the 40-60K per year starting salary feel more like earning 8 buck an hour at McDonald’s. Even 40K would only pay for 1 year at many of the ‘top’ schools. Think long and hard before taking anything more than minimal loans.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>The above is ONLY FOR CALIF RESIDENTS…and the OP is NOT. OOS students do NOT qualify for that Blue and Gold promise for those who are under that income threshold. Cal grants usually cover the bulk of that promise…again, only for instate students. BTW…the promise isnt that the school is free…the promise is that the basic tuition (only) for Calif residents will be covered. the rest of the costs (room, board, books, etc) is usually paid by loans, work-study, family funds, etc. </p>
<p>The UCs will not give aid to cover the OOS portion of tuition - which currently is $23k per year (and could rise at anytime!) So, the expectation for OOS students is to pay: EFC + $23k (plus full loans and likely work-study …usually about 8k-9k is self-help)</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Unless something has changed, OU is very generous to NMFs, but not that generous to OOS students who arent NMFs. I dont think the OP’s child would be getting free tuition plus from OU…unless something has changed…and it appears that this student needs more than free tuition to make the budget work.</p>
<p>I can understand that a directionally-challenged student might, at first, find it hard to navigate a large campus, but i can assure you that Bama’s buildings do NOT all look alike…lol (heck, they’re not even all the same color or shape). And, like a number of schools, the campus is laid out very logically with core classes being held mostly in bldgs that surround the Quad…and then courses for majors are held in bldgs that are clustered together…so a student is either attending courses near the Quad…or in the bldg(s) that house their major…this all minimizes criss-crossing across a large campus.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>U Miami, Emory, and Cooper Union do not claim to meet full need. Emory and BC do not have engineering.</p>
<p>Wow!! Thank you all for all your input. This discussion is very helpful and is giving us a lot of ideas to pursue.</p>
<p>Yes, income is <$40000, though there a $5000 clergy housing allowance in the unearned income section. But we live in a pretty depressed part of the country with low housing costs, free wood for heating, and no pressure to keep up appearances, so we feel pretty middle class. I do feel bad for folks who live in expensive places because I’m sure we do better than many urban people at twice our income, yet FA doesn’t seem to account for that very well. </p>
<p>PSAT was 214, which will not make the NYS cutoff. DS was very angry with himself about that, but I think he’s come to terms with it. </p>
<p>Poking through the NPCs, it looks like the Ivies, MIT, Stanford are our cheapest options except for commuting to Binghamton, which is the worst case scenario. How blessed are we that that is the worst case? 
Maybe looking to someplace like Alabama as a safety, as well as Buffalo and Stony Brook, because you all are right, looking at the repayment schedules, the Staffords should be doable even if he chooses a short repayment schedule (which we’ll encourage).</p>
<p>ucbalumnus, you said “there are other even bigger merit automatic scholarships at schools with engineering.” Can you point me in the right direction?</p>
<p>We are being very conservative with parental borrowing because my youngest is scarily creative and musical, but that doesn’t translate into the high stats that his brother and sister have, and we need to keep as much in reserve as we can for him. Even then, he’s probably looking at 2 years at CC to start, unless he does amazing things gradewise in 10th and 11th grades.</p>
<p>And no football…he’s really not interested, and really REALLY not interested in leading any coaches to believe that he might play. He’s a very straight shooter .</p>
<p>Your son, as an engineering major, will also have co-op opportunities and internship opportunities to help bring in some money. My kids routinely earned a few thousand every summer doing REUs, internships, etc.</p>
<p>What area of eng’g interests him?</p>
<p>He’s interested in mechanical engineering. </p>
<p>If he doesn’t want to play football in college, his test scores are at the cusp or just below the 25th% for schools like MIT and Stanford. His math score is for the math 1, not the 2. No major academic awards or research. Just looking at academics w/o sports, he is only an avg applicant for those schools. They should definitely be approached as a long shot.</p>
<p>Even with an incredibly strong academic background, our ds opted for “the absolutely terrible choice.” While the presidential and engineering are the most well-known scholarships, UA has other scholarships as well and they are all stackable. Our ds ended up with 4 scholarships covering full COA. So, look at schools and dig deeper beyond what is on the surface. The “chatter” on UA when I first started reading CC was that students shouldn’t expect anything beyond the presidential and engineering. </p>
<p>With the income you have listed, obviously shooting for high aid schools should be the primary objective, but with his stats, the scenario isn’t as shoo-in as a couple of the posts make it sound. But, you definitely should pursue them and hope for the best.</p>
<p>Going from the pessimistic perspective of not being accepted at those, I would focus on other schools that you know you can afford. Honestly, with an engineering degree, the only thing that matters is how industry views the grads. It does not matter if the school has national name recognition. It doesn’t matter if CC posters think it is a top school. If he has an idea what company he wants to work for, look for their names on coop and on campus recruiting pages of various websites. Call their local hr depts and ask what schools they recruit from. The corp my dh works for prefers recruiting engineering grads from the small directional university here than more well known schools. It is a Fortune 500 company that has transferred us internationally. So, it isn’t as if it is just a small local corp hiring locals. It is that the site where he currently works has hired that unis grads and they are ready to dig in from the get-go. The corp knows it and goes back to repeatedly hire more grads. Our oldest ds is a chemE and his experience is similar. Corporations love his school’s grads even through the school has zero name recognition outside of industry.</p>
<p>Great advice, thank you.</p>
<p>I would also look at Rice, Vanderbilt, Duke, Notre Dame, and Virginia. Those all meet need and have great engineering programs but are more likely admits than HYPS-level colleges (though still very tough). The earlier suggestion of Rochester is a good one.</p>
<p>For super safeties, Louisiana Tech would give an automatic full ride and Mississippi State would likely give similar merit aid (although not automatic).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Easy to say, but I think it’s false, assuming that the word excellent actually means anything. This student has grades and SAT IIs that are excellent - top 10%. </p>
<p>By what metric does Alabama have an excellent engineering program? Faculty? </p>
<p>Can you cite some comparative evidence? </p>
<p>@ClassicRockerDad
Approximately 1,000,000 students take the SAT annually. Scoring around the 90th% means that approx 100,000 are in and above that range. There aren’t enough spots in the top schools for that # of students. Other than sports, what makes this student stand out above other students? He wants engineering but his math subject test score is in1 not 2. He has 3 APs and no academic honors. He should definitely apply, but the suggestion that he is definitely a candidate for a top school, above 10s of thousands of others, is questionable.</p>