<p>The key is time. Clearly this is location dependent, but if you can find a weekend precollege art program go that route. The time the student spends outside the class on the work is as important as the classroom time. My D goes to a performing arts HS, attends adult ed art classes and also attends the CMU precollege program on Saturday. Of the three, the pre-college experience was the most valuable to her. Of the 10 students that were accepted to the PA Governor's School for painting, 5 came from the CMU precollege program.</p>
<p>I don't have any experience with the pre-college programs at Syracuse or Corcoran; my son did not look into them. However, I do have to say that my son felt the pre-college program at RISD was worth every penny. He felt the instruction was top-notch and he included several of his pre-college assignments in his admissions portfolio for both RISD and other schools.</p>
<p>Also, now that he is actually at RISD, he says that the pre-college program gave him a good background because it is run very much like RISD's foundation year program -- three day-long studios (drawing, basic design principles, and one in your selected major) plus an art history class. (You do get to skip the required English class in the summer program!) In the summer, the work load was intense and he learned to get by on very little sleep (which is coming in very handy today!), but he loved the camraderie. (Everyone there was in the same boat.) </p>
<p>The pre-college experience helped him make his decision between art school and university, because he knew from the pre-college program what it would be like at an art school and he knew that he would feel comfortable.</p>
<p>Worried_mom, yes, geting a feel for the school, which results from a pre-college program, can be very beneficial. However, I can't see how any pre-college program can hone in on every student's individual weaknesses and play up their strengths. Individual tutoring can clearly accomplish this and much more,which is all I am addressing.</p>
<p>I would put my daughter's portfolio against almost anyone from most pre-college programs for the reason given above. </p>
<p>This is not to say that some pre-college programs such as RISD isn't very strong and beneficial. I believe that RISD's program and some others are quite good, not to mention give students a feel for the university. However, purely from a porfolio development perspective, I can't see any pre-college program matching good individualized tutoning.</p>
<p>Taxguy, I agree that private tutors can always offer more individualized attention than a classroom situation and clearly would be able to focus on portfolio development, if that's what you want them to do. But my discussion was really meant to be more more broad based than just portfolio development. I was just offering my perspective on pre-college programs, based on my son's personal experience. RISD's program was a very positive experience for him, just as the pre-college experiences for your daughter seem to have been less than satisfactory. I certainly did not mean to put you on the defensive.</p>
<p>In your daughter's case, she clearly had the time, money, and access to a strong arts tutor. But many students are not in that same position. My son did not have the time nor the opportunity. Even if he had not come to his interest in design so late in his high school career, he would never have had time to fit in tutoring or extra art classes during the school year -- not with all his other extra-curricular activities and heavy academic courseload of AP and honors classes. With his schedule, it was much easier to do a concentrated six-week program in the summer. Also, our local community college does not have a strong arts program and there are only limited arts resources in our area. So going away for a pre-college program definitely brought him greater exposure to true professionals in the field.</p>
<p>My son's pre-college program at RISD had very small classes (12 - 15 students) and he did get to know his teachers on a very personal basis. He got good advice on building his portfolio and a wonderful letter of recommendation. Therefore, I firmly believe that GOOD pre-college programs can be valuable for students considering art and/or design majors. Is it preferable to private tutoring? It really depends on one's individual circumstances. As always, each CC reader will have to take what info they get here, investigate further, and then decide what is helpful for them.</p>
<p>Another way to look at pre-college programs, not just in the arts but in other subjects, is as crass credential building. You'll notice a lot of students talking about whether attending a summer program at a given university gives them a leg up in admissions. I think the jury is truly out on that question. I couldn't have persuaded either of my kids to attend any summer program simply for that purpose. (My son was busy enough with debate camps in any case, and that was out of his interest in the competition.) For my daughter, attending the short-term (2-week) precollege program was a way for her to get a fast course in drawing as well as to learn how talented she might be compared to other kids. In other words, the program helped her to lay down a foundation for later work, not to fill out her range of skills or overcome weaknesses as such. She didn't have the option of attending an arts-oriented high school (might have gone to Cranbrook, but it was truly too expensive for us). And attending the program at SAIC accomplished exactly what she (and we, her parents) were hoping it would do. It really wan't very expensive. Attending the second summer for another 2 weeks did produce a couple of objects (sculpture) that went into her admissions portfolio.</p>
<p>I should say that when she interviewed at CMU, the admissions officer asked her why she didn't attend the one at CMU rather than SAIC. She answered quite simply: she wasn't ready at age 16 to spend 5 weeks away from home (CMU's program is much lengthier than the one at SAIC). I think that was an excellent answer! Obviously, it didn't matter to her admission, since she was admitted there. And it didn't matter to the several other schools that also admitted her. What mattered was her ability and promise as an artist, as reflected in her portfolio and other aspects of her application.</p>
<p>Worried_mom, LOL, I wasn't put on the defensive by your post. If it sounded that way, please accept my apology because that was never my feelings.</p>
<p>Frankly, knowing now what I wish I knew a year ago, I wish my daughter attended the RISD pre-college program instead of that of Syracuse. This way she could have decided one way or the other whether a stand alone art school would be for her. In addition, I believe that RISD precollege program would have been a lot better than what she got at Syracuse. (sigh)</p>
<p>Well, once the acceptances and rejections come in, she will then have to make some tough decisions.</p>
<p>Taxguy, is your daughter applying "early" at any school, or are these all RD? In our experience, some of these schools actually process applications fairly quickly in any case.</p>
<p>Mackinaw, she is applying RD everywhere,but she needed to get her application in to Cincinnati before October 1 for normal admission. Go figure.</p>
<p>All other applications have been filed; however, she is personally presenting her portfolio to both Syracuse and RIT, and CMU instead of sending slides in January.The home assignment for RISD, which we left for last because they keep the work, will be finished (hopefully) by December 31. They want the work sent in.</p>
<p>Frustrating thing about that home assignment is that you have to fold it into the envelope they give you. They do give it back late in freshman year if you enroll but I'm not sure they return it otherwise. Your daughter might want to take photos, just in case. RISD has had this same assignment since forever. Kids handle it in a great many ways. My brother-in-law remembers taking it himself 25 years ago or so when he applied to architectural studies there for his MArch (he actually got that degree from Penn).</p>
<p>I know that CMU really likes applicants to visit with their portfolios.</p>
<p>Good luck to your daughter! She seems to be ahead of the game at this time.</p>
<p>Mackinaw, thanks for the good luck. She will need it. </p>
<p>and....yes, she is ahead of the game. She is a very disciplined, hard working lady. She had her essays and applications to all schools finished by Oct 30 plus was taking two college courses plus worked on her senior capstone project. She is one busy little lady. I am proud of the way that she is handling everything. I personally think that females are better at multitasking then us guys. Maybe it is just my daughter and my wife's abilities that I find astounding and not females in general. Who knows?</p>
<p>Taxguy,</p>
<p>Just another good luck wish to your daughter! I have been reading and learning a great deal from your posts about your daughter's school search process for awhile and I wish her the best as she goes into the home stretch. Whichever school she attends will be fortunate to have such a driven and enthusiastic artist as a student. She just has to promise to give her dad the "lowdown" on her academic experiences so he will continue to post for future art/design students! :)</p>
<p>Taxguy, Let me join in and add my best wishes for your daughter! I second KandKsmoms statement that whichever school your daughter attends will be fortunate to have her. It sounds as if youve done a great deal of research to determine which environment will be the best for her. Speaking from the other side, it feels GREAT when you see your child happy and content at college Im sure that you will be feeling the same way one year from now! And I agree that females are better at multitasking than guys at least it seems to hold true in our house! ; )</p>
<p>Mackinaw, when you said that most of the schools process the applications fairly quickly, do you mean that admissions are on a rolling basis, or do art colleges follow the April 1 notification date?</p>
<p>Our sons art teacher is taking a group of students to the local institute of art for a life drawing class this week; it will be interesting to hear what our son thinks of this new experience. I bought a copy of dwell at Borders today, but its proving to be a little bit more difficult to find I.D.</p>
<p>taxguy,
My d also did her portfolio reviews in person and she had a great experience with both Syracuse and RIT (non-threatening feel to it, helpful hints offered). Your d should be prepared to "discuss" her work - the reviewer didn't just look at work but asked questions. She came away feeling good, knew her portfolio passed the test. She did her SU review in NYC since that was so convenient (she was in and out of the city often).</p>
<p>Thanks liland and KandKsmom for best wishes.</p>
<p>jerzgrlmom, yes, I heard the the "in person" portfolio reviews are very non-threatening and beneficial. That is why she will be doing these interviews. I don't think that CMU is as non-threatening as the others,but we shall see. It's too bad that RISD doesn't have an in person review option. (sigh)</p>
<p>Taxguy, Mackinaw and company, I have been following the art school thread since summer and have learned a great deal from all the discussions and campus visit critiques.</p>
<p>Taxguy, let me offer my best wishes to your daughter in her search.</p>
<p>My D has narrowed her search to four art schools: RISD, MICA, SAIC and Cooper Union. She had on campus portfolio reviews at MICA and SAIC and was accepted, so the pressure is off. She has a portfolio review at Cooper Union this Friday. </p>
<p>CMU is an excellent school for art; unfortunately its two and a half miles from home and my daughter wants to see the world from a different urban perspective, further away from parents.</p>
<p>Did anyone's child submit a portfolio to the National ARTS Awards or plan to submit one to the Scholastic Art and Writing Awards? Many arts oriented schools offer merit aid to attract students who place in these competitions. Also, some art schools offer merit to students from high schools that are members of the National Art Honor Society.</p>
<p>Just some thoughts...</p>
<p>I don't know how other schools handle in-person portfolio reviews as my son only went to one at CMU, but for what it's worth, here is how CMU did it last year:</p>
<p>The actual "review" of the work was conducted by a committee of 5 or 6 design school faculty members -- without any students present. The room was sectioned off into grids with masking tape, and the students were told to set up their portfolio in one of the grids. (The grids were not that large -- maybe 2' by 3' -- so you had to be judicious in setting up your display to make sure your best works were prominent.) Then, while the committee looked over the portfolios, all of the students (and their parents, if present) were sent into another room for a presentation that covered a variety of topics such as admissions statistics and financial aid (which was very informative as it covered everything from the perspective of the design school specifically). After the committee finished, the students were called back individually to meet with one of the committee members for their interview. I do remember my son saying that the interview was more like a "getting to know you" chat than a critique of his portfolio/design project. Most of the questions were about him (background, education, interests, etc.) rather than his work. He thought it was a very positive, friendly discussion and not at all intimidating.</p>
<p>m&sdad, congrats to your d on her acceptances. My d was so relieved to have a couple early acceptances; it really took the pressure off and allowed her to enjoy the rest of the process. It's sad to see how pressured kids are today. Choosing a school should be an exciting time. Glad to hear things are working out for your d.</p>
<p>m&sdad, that's terrific news. Congratulations to your daughter, who now won't be shut out the possibility of attending a top-notch art program. Does your daughter have a particular major in mind?</p>
<p>I'm trying to recall the order in which my daughter heard from the schools to which she applied (all RD and all based on mailed-in slides for portfolio reviews). I'm pretty sure it was KCAI-SCAD-MICA-CMU-RISD from first to last. But the earliest ones came, if I recall correctly, in February, and the last in April. So it was still pretty angst producing.</p>
<p>(My daughter didn't try to compete in one of those national awards competitions.)</p>
<p>My D is a fine arts kid all the way. She does painting, drawing, photgraphy, printmaking, book making and fashion design. She is attracted to MICA because she can be a GFA (general fine arts) major and because they still have strong writing, language and poetry classes and clubs; MICA is attractive to me because she does have a strong chance for substantial merit based aid there.</p>
<p>She liked the RSDI campus, but is not keen on having to decalre a major by then end of freshman year.</p>
<p>Both Baltimore and Providence are about the same size as Pittsburgh. If anyone has questions about Pittsburgh in general or the area around CMU in particular, I would be glad to help.</p>
<p>D is applying early notification from RISD. It is non-binding. She will apply RD at Cooper Union, as their ED is binding and she wants to keep her options open.</p>