<p>It’s unusual that his math grades would be lower than his overall gpa if he us truly interested in being a math major.
What "math"does he like to do? Then some career ideas could be suggested.
There are a lot of math-y jobs that don’t require PhD level grades-- for example being an analyst for an insurance company or a marketing analyst. Would he be interested in studying for the actuary exam? Or switching to business to be an analyst or accountant?</p>
<p>D1 was a math major. By junior year she knew she had reached her math capability, she said there were people who could just see it clearer than her. She was much better with applied math than theoretical. She is in finance now and doing well.</p>
<p>When D1 used to tell people she was a math major, people just assumed she wanted to be a math teacher because they couldn’t think what else she could do with a math major.</p>
<p>His problem may be that he took many math classes at random places before college, so he didn’t build the foundation through the logical sequence of classes at his school. He did not want to repeat anything he’d done before, and he started right in with 400 (4000?) level classes. His study skills are also not the best. He didn’t have to study much in HS, and he didn’t. He’s not doing “badly,” and he’s not struggling, he just doesn’t have the “killer drive” or whatever to get As, or the strategic vision to understand why that would have been important. In HS he took almost all AP classes, so his GPA was bumped up when he got Bs. Obviously that doesn’t happen in college. I think “the light will go on” at some point soon, and he’ll understand he might have fared better if he took a different approach, but things will probably turn out fine.</p>
<p>Does he have an advisor who is helping him map his course?</p>
<p>Focusing on learning the material over getting the grade is what the best students do. They get the A because they have mastered the material. Your son has not learned enough material to get the As. His background of math courses at other places likely did not cover as much material as his current U- he therefore may have gaps in his knowledge base presumed to be known as students going through the U’s sequence will have been exposed to them. UW-Madison (with an around 15th ranked grad school in math) often suggests students who pass the AP calculus exam start with first semester calculus or they will really struggle with the second semester. Not all math courses at all places teach the same material. Despite son’s abilities he recognized there were some students much better than he was- even though he got A’s in the Honors calculus sequence.</p>
<p>Math is brutally competitive for grad school as my son found out. Most will get an 800 on the regular GRE math section but then the math GRE is on a 900 scale to differentiate all of those students from around the world. Your son could possibly get into a grad school, but not one of the top tier ones. My son only applied to top tier schools with several grad level math courses taken but didn’t get in. He overreached apparently. He then chose to finish out a computer science major as well instead of graduating and has been working as a software developer/engineer (job title depends on company). He was weak in programming at first but companies seek out both math and comp sci grads. He got up to speed with his first job, moved on after two years and is working with his peers- he is gifted btw so for him to be intellectually satisfied is saying a lot about the caliber of work he can do in the field. We are still hoping he will do some grad work in some field- he is still young (was two years ahead when he started college).</p>
<p>Getting an REU (summer research experience for undergrads) is also highly competitive. Son did one.</p>
<p>The world of math is different than many other fields. There are the top math students from around the world who come to the US (one reason your kids may not like their TA’s accent). You can have degrees from U Chicago and MIT and still only get a temporary academic job (anecdote from a friend who knows someone in this situation). The job market for other STEM PhDs is not always great either.</p>
<p>As others stated, there are many job possibilities for math majors (we checked when son was still also interested in physics- not as many options in physics). Some will want to become HS math teachers. I know the UW (Madison) math department website has an excellent section on opportunities in math, including other U’s links. Math reminds me of music- there is only room at the top for a small percentage, the rest may be much better than the rest of us but most need to compromise their goals. Most won’t be solving those ages unsolved problems but can be useful.</p>
<p>This is a good time for your son to add computer science to his skill repertoire. My son liked theoretical math but did end up with the comp sci jobs for practicality. Better than finishing with out of order courses senior year when reality hits.</p>
<p>One other note, at least in pure math, a post doc is expected after completing the PhD before one applies for most academic positions. DS is once again . . . waiting to hear.</p>
<p>Wis75… “What you said…”
My son is very intelligent (never officially tested for IQ but tested into all GT classes and JHU CTY all areas), but relatively immature. He does seem to be taking my advice and moving into CS. He took CS 1 last semester, because the more advanced one didn’t fit his schedule, and of course he got an A. I just wish he’d have done that with math. He will be taking CS 2, known to be the killer course, this semester. Hopefully his 3-4 years of CS in HS and experience programming for school activities will serve him well.</p>
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<p>The mixed bag of courses taken previously can be an issue, particularly if any were upper division (300/400-level) courses where syllabus variation tends to be greater than in lower division (100/200-level) courses. Because many upper division math courses are proof oriented, and the expectations of instructors (especially across different schools) can vary significantly with respect to proof skills, it can be particularly risky to skip such courses on the basis of previous course work taken elsewhere without reviewing the old assignments and exams of the course to the skipped. The study skills can also be an issue when he encounters a course that is more difficult or more time consuming than he is used to.</p>
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I’m glad that someone said this, because it’s the plain truth.</p>
<p>UCB, my son also did things like take advanced logic without taking the pre-reqs, intro and intermediate (I don’t know the real names of the courses). Advisors are there, but he hasn’t used them much. He likes to challenge himself, that’s for sure. As a side note, this is a kid who signed up for quantum physics his first semester freshman hear. He had taken both AP physics classes, but come on. My husband, a PhD physicist, tried to advise him against it, but parents know nothing. We wound up having to drop the class bc of multiple medical related absences, but he did admit he was “overwhelmed” by that course.</p>
<p>Wanting to challenge himself is often a good thing, but not if he is careless about checking whether the listed prerequisites are actually necessary to have before taking the course.</p>
<p>While in college, I remember some cases where the listed prerequisites were not strictly necessary from a course content point of view, but may have just been there for gatekeeping purposes. But that certainly was not the case for every listed prerequisite, some of which really were necessary from a course content point of view.</p>
<p>Prerequisites can be ignored IF advisors/professors agree that the individual is prepared enough for the course. This happened for son. He had a scheduling conflict after his Honors Physics sequence so because of his good Honors math background he (and another person he knew) they skipped the next physics course and did one where the conflict was a prerequisite (it was math covered in the course that mattered, the Honors sequence had covered it)- son only got a B but I think part of that was his losing interest in the field (based on other knowledge of him). In order to get the required for the major comp sci courses in he did a couple in reverse order. His background had included the mathematically related/cross listed courses and not the less theoretical ones. It is nice to know what is listed can be manipulated individually at large U’s. </p>
<p>Your son should perhaps read this thread with some of our experiences and advice. He is at the ideal stage to figure out where to go with his interests and abilities. He has already learned some good lessons such as the need to fill in gaps in his knowledge base. He really needs some discussions with his advisor, possibly changing majors (and advisors) as well.</p>
<p>btw- that Chicago/MIT person had done a fellowship also.</p>
<p>One thing you learn that despite even being in the top 1-2% there are such large numbers of students in the Us there will be those so much better, even at public flagships. So much better for gifted HS students than HS. As a parent you also learn that despite great intelligence these kids will not always make the best decisions, listen to advice, realize consequences… It will work out.</p>
<p>What makes a REU better than others? How do you choose which REU to attend assuming you have a choice?</p>
<p>Any REU is better than none. If you are so very fortunate as to have a choice, ask your math professors and consider which REU has a focus most closely aligned with your research interests. My S2 is doing reearch in grad school that is somewhat aligned with the work he did at his REU after his Junior year in college.</p>
<p>How do you know which field to go on? My kid would like to go to grad school in math. She’s taken linear algebra, abstract algebra, real analysis, combinatorics, repsentation theory, etc. She got facsinated with proving and decided to be math majors. Among the courses she’s taken so far, she did exceptionally well in real analysis. Does this mean analysis is a good field for her to pursue or is there more as the level advances?</p>
<p>@Iglooo, Definitely more as the levels advance. Is your child in college now? She should talk to her academic advisor.</p>
<p>Many math majors won’t have figured out the specifics of what they want to focus on in grad school. Math majors will have taken most or all of the courses you mentioned. Her best bet is to discuss with her advisor. As I posted (months ago) math is brutally competitive for top grad schools. Her advisor can help her choose schools that have her interests and that she is competitive for. All a parent can do is be supportive and offer the credit card for application fees.</p>
<p>She is a rising junior. I am a little ahead. I am guessing her academic advisor will bring up grad schools when they go back to campus in the fall. Just trying to understand what subfields there are in math and how one decides "fit.</p>
<p>wis - I know about the competition. I am not thrilled about her choice. That’s what she wants to do at the moment and I stand aside. We’ll see how it all turns out.</p>
<p>@Iglooo If you look on the Math Dept website at her University, they probably have info related to what specific areas there are to specialize in. My daughter did sort of a general math B.S. degree and is now getting a Masters in Secondary Education so she can be a Math teacher.</p>
<p>I think my D is set for pure math. There are subfields within pure math, algebra, analysis, topology if I am understanding correctly. They are not listed in the website at her college. I wouldn’t mind if she gets interested in stats. There the competition is a little less brutal both in getting into a PhD program and getting a job afterwards.</p>