<p>I second that. This past week I copied this thread to print out for second and third readings. We get something new every time we look at it, as the application process evolves, now that senior year is actually here....</p>
<p>Just a bump to try and keep this on the first page.</p>
<p>Does anyone have any opinions on this muxic program?</p>
<p>Hi
I was wondering if I could get some opinions on music schools-
Do you think it's a smarter desicion for a student to go to a school with a strong music program and other areas of study to offer, or just primarily a music school or conservatory. Does anyone have any experience or has visited some New England schools with music, like Berklee, Boston Conservatory, NEConservatory, etc.</p>
<p>That is a very personal choice that very much depends on your strengths, interests and objectives. The three schools you mention are about as alike as chalk, cheese and chintz. Tell us a bit more about yourself and perhaps we will be able to help.</p>
<p>lamtmom08 posted: non-classical vocal performance </p>
<p>My daughter is interested in non-classical vocal performance. She is interested in contemporary or jazz. Any program suggestions?</p>
<p>Dear Lamtmom08: </p>
<p>The Hartt School of the University of Hartford's Jackie McLean Institute of Jazz offers a Jazz Studies major in voice. Students study with Shawnn Montiero Shawnn</a> Monteiro - Jazz Vocalist and are coached by Hartts other notable jazz faculty in combo and ensemble rehearsals. Website: THE</a> HARTT SCHOOL: MUSIC-DANCE-THEATRE</p>
<p>Please contact me if you have any questions about Hartt's Bachelor of Music degree in Jazz Studies-jazz voice program at 860.768.4148.</p>
<p>Hi, first post. Thanks so much to all you great posters, what a great site for info as we begin the college search process. I am also happy to see that I am not the only parent who is involved in at least trying to narrow down the options. It would be pretty overwhelming if it were just my son trying to do it alone.</p>
<p>I've read many, many of the threads here and have definitely been able to help my son at least begin to narrow down the search (those Peabody articles were especially helpful as a starting place regarding the types of degrees). </p>
<p>A little background (bear with me): My son is unfortunate to have been born into a completely non-musical family, but very fortunate in that he has found his passion in life and knows he wants to pursue music as a career of some sort. He is a junior at a public high school. He is (apparently, according to all of his instructors, I wouldn't know!) very talented at guitar. He plays all styles, probably favors rock, but plays in his school's jazz band and percussion group, in a band he has formed, with several ensembles formed by his music school, and jams with an older blues group several times a month. But also he just really loves music and studying all the variations that come with that (music theory, composition, musicianship, etc). </p>
<p>He attended a Berklee one-week guitar session 2 summers ago and the 5-week performance program last summer, which was amazing and gave him some real insight into the study of music as a career. </p>
<p>He is a very good student, will likely finish top 7-8% of his class with all honors and at least 4 AP classes, SATs too soon to tell, but he will do very well on the English portion and okay on the math.</p>
<p>So as we begin the college search, he feels like he is in the position of trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life, at 17! He definitely DOES want to pursue a BM degree, but is concerned that that alone will not be enough to support himself in a job he loves (ie., aside from playing in bars and clubs for the rest of his life -- assuming he will not be "discovered" anytime soon because surely there are many amazingly talented guitarists out there). He thinks long term that he might like to open a music store offering lessons and equipment on a smaller scale than the large chain guitar store. He is not particularly interested in teaching for his whole life but is more inclined to pursue the small business aspect of the industry. At least this is what he is saying at 17.... (I am trying to tell him that things can change......)</p>
<p>Given all this, he is contemplating a dual major in business and music. Frankly, I do not think he has a head for business (his very strong subjects are English and French) so I do not think he would be happy taking business classes. But this is where his thinking is right now (today....). The first of many times we will disagree, I am sure! At the end of the day, however, he will choose a school much more for the music program than anything else.</p>
<p>So as he prepares to take his SATs and we are thinking about where to send scores, it has all of a sudden hit us that he needs to start narrowing down his options. Which is how I found this site!</p>
<p>Clearly Berklee is probably the best option for him. However, he is struggling with spending his college years in a city environment, especially one that is relatively close to home (he wants to explore a little). He is a country mouse by nature and loves the outdoors and the mountains - the only easy part of this search is that he probably wants to be somewhere cold. He has this idea in his head about a "campus" environment for 4 years. But he understands that to accomplish what you want, you need to be at the right place for your interests and strength of the music program, and that might (probably) mean the city if the program is right for him .... especially given the opportunites to play his music that a city environment will afford. But maybe another city? Or is he crazy to bypass Berklee?</p>
<p>So we are trying to look around and figure out what is right for him. I am concerned about the relatively low Berklee graduation rate (on the other hand, what good is the diploma if he isn't going to be able to do anything with it.... ??) I'm going crazy. </p>
<p>It's very difficult because so many of the colleges mentioned on this forum seem to be geared towards the classical musicians -- I see the word "conservatory" and I don't think of guitarists, even classical guitarists. But some of the schools mentioned (Oberlin, for eg.) seem to have such great music departments and he would love the challenge of the intensity of programs like this, or Eastman. Maybe he could also do a dual degree in places like this. But will he also have opportunities to play his music? (He has some piano experience, but not a lot, and although he is working on voice, he is most definitely not a natural.... but he is more than willing to put himself out there and give it a go).</p>
<p>Is he better off at a liberal arts school majoring in music? I'm thinking the really strong schools like Middlebury or Dartmouth, or the tier below like Ithaca. The concern is that the strength of the music departments will not be equivalent to the really intense music education he would get elsewhere. But some of the schools we've stumbled across on our search (Univ. of Colorado at Denver is a good example, not one discussion about that school on this board, that I could find) while seemingly strong in guitar performance and probably music education, don't seem to have a whole lot more going on (the mom in me STILL wants him to have somewhat of a well-rounded education...."he's so smart, he could do anything... "etc. -- do I need to let that go)?</p>
<p>There have been lots of great schools mentioned in this thread as well as in others about colleges connected to conservatories, colleges with great music teachers, but what about my guitarist (slash potential businessman?) Is a place like Oberlin right for him? Sorry this was so long-winded, I'll be shorter next time. I'd love to hear your thoughts. thanks!</p>
<p>Do not write Berklee off solely because of the low graduation rate. A lot of that is because students get job offers and go to work in the industry before graduating. The running joke is that they give diplomas only to those who have failed at finding work.</p>
<p>Oberlin could be right for him, particularly if he wants to pursue a jazz emphasis. They have an excellent jazz department with a new building for it planned to open by September 2009. They also have a major known as TIMARA -Technology in Music and Related Arts if he is into the electronic aspect of things. There is no instruction that i know of in the rock/pop/blues genres, but there are a lot of student bands that come and go that would give him opportunity to play in just about any style he wants. They do not have a business curriculum, but they do have an Entrepreneurship sequence that may be of interest. See Creativity</a> & Leadership: Entrepreneurship at Oberlin for details.</p>
<p>hi BassDad, I was hoping to hear from you. Thanks for the advice (and all your other contributions here). </p>
<p>Yes, we had talked about focusing on the jazz route to try to "fit" better into some of these music schools, but it's really not is favorite style, although he does play it well. Not so much into the technology stuff, though he is interested in learning more about recording. </p>
<p>We don't want him trying to fit a square peg into a round hole just to find somewhere other than Berklee to apply to! But some compromise is necessary if he is going to find the right place that has at least most of the qualities he is looking for. He's doing the whole pro and con thing already, trying to identify what are THE most important qualities in schools. </p>
<p>Just want to give him some options in addition to Berklee! Will check out the Oberlin site as you suggested. Will he audition just like any other musician at places like Oberlin, or Case Western, or Peabody, or Eastman? Would the conservatory-type places even consider a guitarist for their programs?</p>
<p>guitarist's mom, Welcome. My son having gone the classical route, I cannot offer program specific advice, but will offer some general suggestions.</p>
<p>I do know that Eastman has a strong classical guitar program, but without knowing your son's performance background, the question becomes can he be competitive at an audition based admissions school not focusing on his genre preference? There is the potential for double majoring at U/Rochester, but I recall there being potential logistics issues. I'm sure details are available in previous threads.</p>
<p>As far as Oberlin, BassDad is the resident expert, and I'll leave comments in his hands.</p>
<p>Your son seems like the Berklee type of person, but I can understand the concerns regarding graduation rates. Additional, I don't know the quality or level of general business courses (if any) available there.</p>
<p>If you haven't already read this post, there is a similar discussion here <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/448421-late-bloomer-contemporary-music-advice.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/448421-late-bloomer-contemporary-music-advice.html</a>, and the OP cites a few schools, including Belmont which might bear investigation. Additional, The</a> New School for Jazz and Contemporary Music and Contemporary</a> Music Program are probably worth a look.</p>
<p>Another option might be to look at schools with dual major programs, combining both performance and music business degrees if s is interested in the music (as opposed to general) business courses. I know for example Hartt has such a program, but the guitar program again has a classical focus.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Edit: I'm not familiar with U Colorado Denver, but U Colorado Boulder has a pretty strong overall music program... I don't know if you've looked there.</p>
<p>cross posted w/BassDad; added U Colorado line.</p>
<p>guitarist's mom wrote: <will he="" audition="" just="" like="" any="" other="" musician="" at="" places="" oberlin,="" or="" case="" western,="" peabody,="" eastman?="" would="" the="" conservatory-type="" even="" consider="" a="" guitarist="" for="" their="" programs?=""></will></p>
<p>On any of the audition based programs, you will have to look at the audition requirements for the instrument, and also by program (jazz versus classical, or contemporary) if seperate programs or concentrations are available.</p>
<p>Again, as I mentioned earlier, without knowing his level of formal training it is difficult to assess whether he'd be competitive within a given year's applicant field. Still, there's the possibility that he can spend the next year practicing the audition rep to bring it to a high standard.</p>
<p>One way to assess this is to get an honest opinion from his studio instructor; several honest opinions broaden the perspective. </p>
<p>The question then becomes can he be happy and develop in a program that does not necessarily focus on his prefered genre.</p>
<p>Seems like some tough choices, but you've got some time to consider options.</p>
<p>edit: Just noticed that U/Denver's program is mentioned here <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/416775-college-choices-rock-guitarist.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/416775-college-choices-rock-guitarist.html</a>. I don't know about that program, but son applied to U/Denver back in '01 (based on experience with the viola instructor), was accepted but chose Hartt. I do know that Lamont has a good rep, particularly on the west coast, and they have a new wondrous performance facility.</p>
<p>There are two guitar teachers at Oberlin, one for classical and one for jazz. He would have to audition for one or the other to get into the program. Jazz auditions tend to be done with one or more auditioners sitting in with an ensemble filled out by current students and possibly teachers. Classical auditions are solo. As far as I know, there is no teacher for or interest in holding auditions in rock and/or pop styles. He would have opportunities to play in those styles by joining or forming a band while there, but would have to get into the school on the basis of his classical or jazz chops. If neither of those is his thing, then it may be best to look elsewhere.</p>
<p>Thanks to you both. My guess would be that he would lean towards the jazz rather than the classical, though he plays both. He would love the ensemble stuff right off the bat. The problem probably is that neither is his preferred style (rock/fusion, I would guess, is). I know what you're thinking, just go to Berklee already!! He isn't convinced (also, the $$$, ouch). Also geez, the place is full of guitarists, they trip over each other. </p>
<p>He is really curious and focused on expanding his horizons to every style of music. So I can see him doing the jazz at a place like Oberlin then finding others to match up with for the rock stuff outside of the "classroom." </p>
<p>He has a couple of faculty contacts from his summers at Berklee who he keeps in touch with, and these guys in addition to his school and studio instructors have given him lots of positive feedback about his playing. He is a pretty advanced player. I think that he would audition well given the time he has to prepare and narrow down the options. I'm thinking the more I read that the conservatory approach would not be right for him. But the myriad of offerings from Oberlin and maybe looking at schools with just real strong music departments (I've been looking at Michigan in the past few minutes) might be a nice fit. So do you audition at somewhere like Michigan (just as an example) if you want to be a music major? (It's probably here somewhere but I haven't gotten to it yet).</p>
<p>I also was struck by what I read somewhere else on the forum about looking closely at the faculty and the teaching of your instrument. Certainly that ought to have a huge impact on one's choice (though I suppose they can leave, just like sports coaches).</p>
<p>Overall, Michigan is an extremely competitive program, and is auditioned based, as are all the top flight programs, and virtually all BM programs (and there are often pre screen requirements for popular, competitive instruments, like violin, flute, and piano). As guitar is an instrument of choice at Berklee, you may want to look and see if there is a pre screen requirement there, just for future reference. There are auditioned and non audition based BA programs at a number of schools.</p>
<p>Audition requirements are usually set out on the music department's/schools webpages, and vary widely by school, the "toughest" material being the standard at the top level schools. As I mentioned earlier, some music major disciplines (theory, history, education) will hold those applicants to a less stringent audition criteria (not necessarily repetoire) than they use to judge potential performance majors.</p>
<p>There is no hard and set rule, it's pretty school specific, but any audition can be a crap shoot, and your chances are based on how you fare in relation to that year's pool of applicants.</p>
<p>Choice of teacher plays a major role selecting a place to study, but other important factors can be quality of peers, performing opportunities, financial, scholarship and distance considerations among others. Also, it is not unusual for a top student to follow a teacher to a new institution if the instructor leaves.</p>
<p>Having done a rather exhaustive search of university based music and conservatory jazz programs in the last two years, I would say that based upon your son's interests, Berklee or New School probably serve him best. The straight jazz programs, at least at the major conservatories, all have pre-screenings and are all extremely competitive, especially for guitar. </p>
<p>My son is also a top student and I was also very concerned about giving up the possibility for a top school in favor of music, but we have all come around. I know that it isn't the right choice for everyone, and in some ways, I really suspect that the non-music school route is much easier. My son wasn't happy with the level of play in non-conservatory programs, but we know lots of kids who are, and thrive in such a setting, particularly if music is not the only interest.</p>
<p>Anyway, best of luck to you Guitarist'smom and son. There is a great bunch of very helpful people here ready and willing to answer lots of questions (I should know...I asked way too many) ;)</p>
<p>"Having done a rather exhaustive search of university based music and conservatory jazz programs in the last two years, I would say that based upon your son's interests, Berklee or New School probably serve him best. The straight jazz programs, at least at the major conservatories, all have pre-screenings and are all extremely competitive, especially for guitar."</p>
<p>I would also guess that Berklee would be a top choice. I do want to mention that Michigan, although extremely competitive, does not require a pre-screening CD at this time.</p>
<p>Just wanted to chime in here, Guitarist's Mom, to say that it sounds like your son and my daughter have a remarkable amount in common. I can relate to SO much of what you've shared here and will look forward to checking in and following your journeys. </p>
<p>I've been lurking/reading the board for awhile and only had the guts to finally post a few days ago. There hasn't been a lot written about Berklee on here (no specific discussion) but that's my D's top choice. She applied EA and she will find out tomorrow ... needless to say it's going to be a long night :) or :(</p>
<p>You hate to put all your eggs in one basket but Berklee's curriculum is SO unique that if it seems perfect for a student (as it does to my D) then it's very hard to find other options that are similar (as opposed, say, to a student who wants to study English Literature at a small rural LAC, or pre-med at a highly-competitive state U, or even classical music at a conservatory). </p>
<p>She has applied to a few other schools (I know, uh oh, not a big enough net) and says she thinks she'd be happy at any of the others IF she were to get in, but all would encompass compromises to what she's looking for in one way or another, whereas Berklee offers EVERYTHING she is looking for and is the only school that does. And I don't think any of the four are safeties, although only one is a definite reach based on her stats. </p>
<p>We also just heard about Denver's commercial music program very recently, too late I think to investigate it, but it would seem worth looking into based on some of the criteria you've mentioned. </p>
<p>I'd also look into the University of the Arts in Philadelphia, though it's more urban I think than your son wants ... but an interesting arts-based school in a nice city with chilly weather and a good cultural scene, a little less overwhelming than NYC. </p>
<p>If cold weather is a must then I guess Frost/Miami is out, but they've got a great commercial music andjazz program which will only get better since bringing in the head of USC/Thornton's program in the past year or so I believe. In addition, they have a major that encompasses music business as well as performance which might appeal to him. He could throw a snowman in his dorm room and pretend it's cold!!! Or put Christmas lights on a palm tree!</p>
<p>And I ditto the suggestion of looking into the New School for Jazz. She didn't apply there and my husband is really kicking himself now for not urging her more strongly to at least apply. </p>
<p>Finally, I don't think Berklee has a pre-screening unless I don't totally understand what that means ... I believe all applicants have to audition/interview. If they narrowed down the applicants to be chosen for audition/interview from the initial applications I'd be interested to know that.</p>
<p>Just piping up here because Michigan as of yesterday still had no professor of guitar on the faculty. They don't seem like the best place for a serious jazz guitar player, but I am only going on that information, not having spoken to current students or visited there. My son is serious about jazz guitar--they seem to very much respect such musicians at The New School, New England Conservatory, MSM, Hartt, Purchase, UArts--USC has a guitar-only program in their music school, which, if you want to be on the west coast--sounds great. Berklee--huge, yes, but we have heard that if you are a jazz guitarist, the group is smaller.</p>
<p>jazzzmomm, thanks for pointing that out. There is a note on the website that there is no classical performance degree, but guitar may be used as a principal instrument for the Jazz Studies degree. Yet, there is no faculty listing for a teacher of guitar. Since my daughter had auditioned for jazz studies last year (on violin) I knew that a pre-screening CD wasn't required. But I wasn't aware of the detail that there is no professor of guitar.</p>
<p>thanks, appreciate everyone's replies! I am not sure that my son would choose a school for jazz guitar, as he likes it but wouldn't want to concentrate on jazz. That is one reason we hadn't looked too closely at the New School -- I presume that is pretty jazz based given it's name?</p>
<p>If he were to go anywhere other than Berklee (and maybe even there as well), he would probably apply as a music theory major, and it looks like some of the other schools while still requiring an audition would place less emphasis on the audition in that case. At least that's what I am gleaning from a couple of the college websites, I could be totally wrong. PamelaMaeSnap - (are your initials PMS for a reason?? ha ha!) I can really relate. You are right on target when you say that the Berklee curriculum is so unique. It seems ridiculous to even be looking elsewhere since it is so right for him.... but there is that undefinable need to explore all the options. I think he has a real need to study "Music" in all its various forms in addition to the desire to perform, of course. </p>
<p>The info about Michigan's lack of a guitar instructor is pretty crucial, thanks jazzzmom. I hadn't heard of the Frost/Miami school nor had I seen much on the USC program so we will take a look at those. Also the philly school. What are the options in NYC for this type of musician, anyone know?</p>
<p>Since 2 days ago when I first posted he has come around to the fact that perhaps taking a few business courses (vs focusing on a dual degree with business) is better for him. I can only imagine how much more things will change between now and the end of the year when he actually starts applying to places.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, since he is has attended Berklee 2 summers in a row, he is looking for some alternatives for the summer (sorry, I know it's off topic) -- anyone ever hear of the Guitar Workshops, or other similar programs for rockers/guitarists/intensive music programs? Maybe I'll find another thread to post this question on.</p>