Suggestions of Colleges with Music Majors

College Majors Music Major
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<p>lorelei2702: She is attending Mr. Ferro's program because she LOVES Italy and one of his brochures was sent to us last year. Of course, the chance to study with Mr. Ferro is a wonderful opportunity, as well as the other faculty in his program. As far as studying with him, well, who knows. So far she is VERY happy with her teacher at UMICH, but we don't know what the future holds. David Clatworthy is also a great teacher at Juilliard.</p>

<p>Thumper: Thanks for your post. It's all great to hear.</p>

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<p>Most of the greatest (not to mention, wealthiest) musicians never attended college. That said, majoring in music provides little help for those pursuing a career in the music industry. If it provided all the help one would ever need, there is still the underlying fact that there is little future in the industry. The business is crumbling, with the advent of piracy over file sharing networks. Royalties are not being paid and it's so easy to participate when given the options of either paying $18 for a CD or not having to pay a dime, much less drive to the store, and simply clicking the song you want. The working artist has frozen assets.<br>
Not a musician? What say you get an audio engineering degree: you still have to start at the bottom and work your way up. And when you are finally working in a top dollar studio, editing audio for movies like Gladiator, and The Day After Tomorrow, (movies are also traded online) you will still probably not be making six figures. Only 20% of those in the industry make more than $45,000 a year. For those who want to perform, great artists need to get their name out there, send as many demo tapes to as many redord labels as possible. However, majoring in music will hardly be of assistance. Think of the oppurtunity cost: focusing your education on a "back-up-plan" will serve as a means of income, allowing one to work, get paid, and be supported while pursuing a music career on the side. I have been playing guitar for 12 years, and for a while, I wanted to go to Berklee College of Music. Sounds nice, and all, being able to transcribe Mozart onto paper simply by listening to it, but I later realized that pursuing this plan promised a life of few options. In the music business, you will always work for somebody else, and will always have to do as you are told. But this is not the idea of going to music school, or majoring in music. One who majors in music wants to have a career of writing and recoring fabulous scores of ear massaging music, working at a pace, or tempo if you will, determined by his sporadic, creative genius. But can a school teach one to do this? Maybe it can teach you how to play an instrument. Not only am I suggesting that majoring in music is ill-productive, but counterproductive. Perhaps one day, I'll get signed, but I will not rely on school as a means of acheiving this. When I do get signed, all my ideas and recordings will come to life. My skills will pay off. All those young, uneducated, delinquent millionaires on MTV will fade in the brilliance of my band's sound. And I will achieve this the same way as everybody else, seemingly by chance, but in reality, by success. Success is when preparation meets oppurtunity. I do not believe that majoring in music is a valid way to prepare, nor do I believe majoring in music will provide me sufficient oppurtunity.</p>

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<p>Hollowcloud,</p>

<p>you are of course free to choose your own path. If you are equating success with money, then college may not be the most efficient way for you to achieve that end. When considered from a return on investment point of view, at least 99% of all attempts at creating Art are abject failures.</p>

<p>I'm not sure whom you consider to be the greatest musicians, but it is quite possible that what you say is correct - they never attended college. That does not mean that they were either untrained, or that they were able to work under the conditions that you claim music majors desire. Most likely they spent many years learning their craft and many more working low-paying jobs or playing for tips before getting a lucky break.</p>

<p>I think most music majors go into college knowing full well that they are not likely to be making six figures as musicians anytime soon. That may happen to a lucky few, but more of them will settle in as high-school music teachers, church musicians, directors of community choruses and bands, perhaps taking a few private students and playing a freelance gig now and again. Many will earn their living outside of music entirely, perhaps playing with a few friends on occasion, perhaps not. I have noticed, however, that very few of the many music majors I know regret having followed that path later in life.</p>

<p>One thing I hear over and over again from them is that they simply could not imagine a life apart from music when they decided to become a music major. The realities of life may have eventually forced them into other employment, but the intellectual, time management and networking skills they learned in college have served them well over the years.</p>

<p>College is not the path for everyone, nor does it guarantee success to those who attend. Nevertheless, it can be an extremely rewarding experience in ways that are not measured in dollars.</p>

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<p>hollowcloud: Actually, a lot of symphony orchestras ask audition applicants where they have studied. So in certain music worlds it is important where and with whom one studies. It sounds to me as if you are talking pop music. That's a different world. I don't believe anyone here is talking about becoming a pop star.</p>

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<p>In the world of classical music, especially for instrumentalists, the educational background (specific school) may very well get the musican an interview or audition, but the performance will get the job. However, if they will not hear you, you will never have a chance.</p>

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<p>DS is a senior at Peabody, majoring in Music Composition and Music Ed. When it was time to start applying to colleges, his stellar academics through HS led to some extremely odd offers from colleges he had never even heard of. For example, one school in Arizona offered him full tuition, room & board, plus a $10,000 stipend if he would come there to study industrial engineering. DH almost died, the offer was so good! But music was in DS's blood, and only music would do. He knows he's unlikely to ever be rich, unless someone, somewhere hears his music and likes it enough to promote. However, the ability to write his music provides him with satisfaction that he wouldn't get from any other career, and he has accepted that. He plans to be the most popular and 'famous' music teacher at whatever school he ends up teaching, and that will be riches enough. A person could have a worse life, I think.</p>

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<p>BASSDAD: I did not make any such claim that the greatest musicians were untrained, or that they were able to work under the conditions that I claim music majors desire. Perhaps most did spend years waiting for a lucky break, as you claim; learning a trade that may never get off the ground. But if they had the chance to go to college like your daughter and son has, they would have had a chance at a better life than"playing for tips" or "working low paying jobs" Your friends may not regret their decisions, but I'm sure they could have done better. Of coarse, I should be careful not to suggest that all people have the same capacity to succeed. The intellectual, time management skills you speak of are not exclusive products of being a music major. Toward the end of your argument, I notice you have a paragraph speeking of the rewards of college in general... I hope you are reiterating what I have said and not attempting to use this paragraph in rebutting my argument.
REEDPLAY: Iindeed was referring to the pop/rock star life of success. So in certain music worlds, a completely different set of rules applies. I have no kids. I am 18 years old. I have been playing guitar since I was six. For a while I wanted to major in music, for the purpose of making money. Not for the purpose of happiness. I later found better ways of making money. I do not regret my choices in education, as you do not regret yours. So your'e doing great. Good for you. But you could have done better.
LORELEI: Good point.</p>

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<p>Hollowcloud,</p>

<p>When I spoke of working low paying jobs and playing for tips, I had in mind those performing arts majors who have neither found work in their chosen profession nor given up all hope of doing so. In that sense I was agreeing with you.</p>

<p>One point I was attempting to make was that most performing arts majors elect to attend college even though they know from the outset that they are unlikely to command a large salary after graduating. At least some of them are motivated by the opportunity of studying with the best and most influential people in their chosen discipline. Such teachers were usually not found in colleges in the days of Bach or Mozart and they may not be found in colleges for those interested in pop/rock music today. A college degree or certificate is a required step for someone who aspires to join a professional orchestra or opera company in today's world.</p>

<p>Another point I wanted to make was that many who spend years training for an orchestral or operatic career do not achieve those goals. That does not necessarily make them failures. They may still end up as happy, well-adjusted and productive members of society, willing to pay obscene amounts of money to send their own progeny to music lessons and conservatories. Could they have done better by studying a different field from the start? Sure, but I suspect many of them would seriously regret not following their dream at all.</p>

<p>Nor was I trying to claim that any intellectual or practical skill was an exclusive byproduct of a musical education. I will stand that argument on its head and say that a musical education very frequently provides intellectual and practical skills that are of general value. I know several music majors who are earning six-figure salaries in the corporate world in decidedly non-musical jobs. That does not necessarily mean that they have succeeded at anything other than outearning me.</p>

<p>Asking retrospectively whether someone could have done better is pointless. The answer is always yes, at least for the sane and honest among us. A more interesting question is whether someone would have done as well following a different path.</p>

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<p>Marcyr,</p>

<p>Amen to that and best wishes to your son for a long and prosperous career.</p>

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<p>I would also like to point out the music majors have a higher admissions rate to medical schools than any other field including biology.</p>

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<p>How interesting to have an 18 year old tell me I could have done better! I have to admit that made me smile. </p>

<p>Yeah ... I could have done better I suppose. But I yam what I yam and it suits me fine.</p>

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<p>I'm new to the "parent of prospective music major" world. I'm glad to have received some background information by reading the messages in this forum. That information, combined with visits to college websites, and discussions with music teachers have provided me with at least enough knowledge to be dangerous. My daughter, a high school junior, is seriously considering a major in vocal performance (soprano). She has come to this realization somewhat late in the game -- it hit her right between the eyes as we were visiting Illinois Wesleyan, a school we were originally considering primarily for its liberal arts program. She has studied music in some shape or form -- guitar, piano, flute, and most recently voice -- since she was 7 years old. She has taken private voice lessons for the past 3-4 years, and has participated in choir, musicals, and other music-related events in high school. She was in all-district choir last year, and received a 1 in districts and a 2 in state voice competitions last year; and a 2 in districts this year (of course, she was devastated -- I thought she sounded much better this year -- but it was probably a case of taking on challenging pieces, and performing them pretty well this year, versus taking on easier pieces and performing them very well last year). Both her private voice teacher and her choir teacher think she is very talented, and should have success in gaining entrance into a selective music program. I think her voice is beautiful, but I am not objectively qualified to make that call. What I am looking for are more sources of input to help determine her potential -- in other words, is she talented enough? Singing is no doubt her main passion. And I think she has the will and self-discipline necessary to succeed -- if the talent is there. She just recently applied and was accepted to the Eastman Music Horizons summer program. We thought the 3-week program would give her a good taste of what it might be like to study music at the college level (theory, ear-training, diction, and performance). The application for entrance included recommendations, repertoire/resume, and a 10-15 minute audition CD. Is the fact that she was admitted to the program a good sign? Is this program considered very difficult to get into? Thanks for any advice and insight.</p>

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<p>Firstimer,</p>

<p>I take it you have read Lorelei's posts #90 and #94 in this thread? The competition among sopranos for slots in good music schools is quite fierce. Do her current teachers have other students who have successfully auditioned at selective college programs? Are they saying things like "among the best I have seen in 20 years of teaching"? How many students were getting better marks than your daughter at the state level? The number of spaces in top music schools for freshman sopranos is not all that large. If your daughter is not likely to be among the best few in your state come audition time, you may want to consider other majors or less selective schools.</p>

<p>Getting into Eastman's summer camp is a good first step. A program like Interlochen or Tanglewood that draws students nationally and from abroad may have been a better test, but you should know more at the end of those three weeks than you do now. If she comes away thinking it was the best time of her life and if her teachers there are giving her rave reviews, then you may want to start working on her pre-audition tapes. (Because of the large number of applicants, many of the better schools will not even grant live auditions to sopranos and mezzos until they get through a screening round on tape.)</p>

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<p>Firstimer - Welcome to group therapy for parents of young sopranos! I could have written your letter verbatim last year (or last night, for that matter). It's fascinating and often shocking to be the parent of a teenaged singer whose skills are rapidly developing. You spend over a dozen years with your daughter, learning who they are and what their interests may be. The sudden transformation that changes girls into young women at 13 already offers a lot for a Dad to cope with; then almost magically, this voice starts coming out of your daughter and its development becomes something of a soundtrack to the other near-miraculous changes that you're watching. I don't mean to be getting too sappy with this, but as spellbound as a lot of us undoubtedly get by the process, we also have to adapt to a change of priorities that includes trading in other promising dreams and career goals for one with some very unsettling prospects. As Lorelei (our chief reality therapist)told us earlier, "The lifestyle and choices of a professional singer in the early stages are not ones that you, as her (parent), will like . . . It is a gruesome process." As I work my way through the new priorities, I just remind myself that nothing could be as gruesome as going through life believing that you were given a true gift but were persuaded not to pursue it to the fullest out of fear of failure.</p>

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<p>Also, another component for sopranos (and flute players) majoring in performance....Many many schools require a pre audition tape. They use these tapes as a screening to determine who they even will offer auditions to. Unfortunately for the students, there are a zillion more sopranos and flutes than the programs can reasonably accommodate.</p>

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<p>Firstimer: I saw your post and have some thoughts and comments:</p>

<p>(1) Eastman Music Horizons admissions: of course this will be a great experience, especially if this is a part of the Eastman School of Music, which I do not know. Whether getting admitted means anything is harder to answer. If it costs a good bit and there is minimal scholarship available, it means less than if it costs very little, most are on scholarship, and anyone who is good enough can afford to attend. For sure your daughter will be ahead as a musican for having participated, and that is good. She will be a good judge of the selectivity of the experience once she hears the other singers, and so will you if you get to hear solo performances. </p>

<p>(2) It is the case the picking music that is too hard for the vocal technique and musicianship, as well as the physical maturity, will make a singer less competitive. At our regional NATS competitions, it was notable that singers from larger schools who picked less demanding pieces, frequently did better in their age groups than singers from smaller schools who were "trying" more advanced pieces. Sometimes, in a competition, it is not so much that one person wins as that everyone else loses, by showing, exposing, revealing their flaws and limitations. So it might be that your daughter's choice of music affected her score. However, who picked the music? Is that person your daughter's teacher? Was it something your daughter insisted on singing because she loved it? Survival instincts are part of the process, and if a singer does not perceive when they are asked to do inappropriate or ill-advised things, they will not endure. </p>

<p>(3) It is almost impossible for a parent to accurately judge their child's talent. Singing is about communication and the body's expression of itself through sound. This is your child, and your child "speaks" to you in many ways, having nothing to do with voice, so of course you are touched and moved by her efforts. You will only know if she can be a success if she competes with others, and as BassDad says, it is constantly being said that she is one of the best young singers professional music educators have heard. </p>

<p>(4) This is not to say she cannot make a life in music, even if she turns out not to be superlatively talented and lucky. [Of course she may very well prove to be very gifted.] Remember, there are many other fields of musical study: music education, music therapy, church music, music industry, musicology. All of these require basic performance experience on an instrument or with the voice. Music is a reasonable undergraduate curriculum for the college experience, and many graduates continue in other fields, the law, business, medicine. The great thing about singing is that it is so portable and cheap to do. She will have it her whole life, and she can follow her dream until she finds another one she prefers.</p>

<p>Good luck. Feel free to e-mail me privately if you wish.</p>

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<p>Thanks all of you who replied. In addition to being educational, it truly is therapeutic to read your posts. Regardless of my daughter's potential, I will not discourage her from pursuing music as a major/career, because as I mentioned before, it is her passion. My main goal as a parent is to guide her to lead a life that fulfills her. Having said that, I am planning to steer her toward a school that combines strong liberal arts education with a good music program. I may encourage her to seek a double major, even if it means five years of study (and tuition - ouch!). And, I am also focusing on smaller schools (< 15,000 undergrads), as opposed to large public schools. One thing that strikes me about the educational backgrounds of the music faculty at several of the schools whose websites I have visited is that many of them received their undergraduate degrees at institutions that are not on the various top 10-25 lists I have seen on this or other forums. Many end up at the top schoos for graduate study, but others study at < top 25 schools for both undergrad and beyond. That leads me to believe that studying music at these less-renowned (middle-tier?) schools is OK. I have taken note of the several posts that emphasize the importance of the college voice instructor, as well as the importance of having a program that is NASM accredited. Do you have any advice regarding the wisdom of studying music at schools like Lawrence, DePauw, Illinois Wesleyan, Ohio Wesleyan, Ithaca, Syracuse, University of Miami, Drake, Bradley, Dickinson, University of New Hampshire, University of Delaware, Miami of Ohio? (I realize that the schools listed here are of differing reputations for music -- but all have strong liberal arts programs). Are all of the music programs difficult to get into for a female soprano?</p>

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<p>Lawrence, Ithaca, U of Miami have very good music programs. The Ithaca program is a conservatory within the college. U of Miami has a very diverse music program offering majors in numerous music and music related fields. Lawrence has a great music program. U of Delaware has a fine vocal music program. I will say that I have a kiddo who is a performance major at a university. For him, and for all of his music major friends the number one criteria for study was the private teacher. The relationship one has with the private teacher is longterm and ongoing for the full four years. That person is key to the success of the student. DS's teacher is known worldwide on his instrument. The university is not necessarily considered a "go to" place for musicians although the program is outstanding. However, for DS, being able to study with THAT teacher was very very important. And your question about music programs for sopranos....I would venture that that is probably the most competitive "instrument" for performance majors. There are a TON of sopranos. Having said that, I agree with you...if it is what your daughter wants to do, go for it. There IS a school where she will be able to pursue her study of music. There are folks who wonder out loud to us why we allow our son to study music at a very expensive university. The bottom line is that the study of music is a discipline. Getting a degree in applied music study will serve DS well in the future even if he cannot or does not pursue a career in music.</p>

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<p>Very well put, thumper and Lorelei. Although firstimer and her daughter may not be interested in Peabody/Hopkins, there are some interesting articles on the Peabody website that they may wish to read.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/index.php?pageID=692%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/index.php?pageID=692&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>and</p>

<p><a href="http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/index.php?pageID=787%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/index.php?pageID=787&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>More opera oriented schools are going to be tougher admits for a soprano, because they have to be able to cast the operas, and if too much of the teacher studio time is taken by one voice type, they will not have what they need. Add in the element that most operas performed are male heavy in casting, written by males, about male dominated cultures (wars and courts), with the sacrificed soprano (who often dies from misdeed or illness or both) and/or the sultry, boyish, maternal, or hag-like mezzo, with the occasional maid thrown into the cast. It is a difficult arena in which females must compete. The line is not nearly so long with good male voices, and the standards may not be quite as high, though of course there are many wonderful male singers. There is a fairness issue at work here, too, because some of these opera schools will not give scholarship/assistantship money to the commoner voice types, because they do not have to do so to get them. At the same time, I have seen schools change their academic admission requirements in order to be able admit a rare voice type and talent. [And some people think the star athletes get all of the breaks!] </p>

<p>Additionally, as a cultural and societal issue, more men are conditioned to make sure that their education will make them employable, so fewer will take the chance on singing and music. [Instrumental pedagogues tell me the same thing happens: many promising male high school musicians decide they will major in something else and have their music as an avocation.] </p>

<p>A college or university with more emphasis in music education and/or liberal arts will be more lenient about the balance of singers (though the choral director will always wish for more men), and sopranos and mezzos will have an easier admit. </p>

<p>In a way all of this is to the advantage of the (common) female singer, because she will know for sure how talented she is if she is admitted to one of these programs. She is not being admitted and encouraged just because they need her for the production. There might be an earlier death of dreams, but it is more of a reality check. </p>

<p>This probably sounds cynical, but it is the way things are done in high level vocal performance programs. It is considered to be a necessity, and probably it is if traditional performances are to be adequately cast.</p>