Suggestions sought for small supportive engineering programs for somewhat slacker son

College Search & Selection
1

<p>My rising senior son does well on standardized tests but his grades do not match. He is pretty much a “B” student and has demonstrated no desire to excel. Really nice kid, no behavior issues, just has a “good enough” attitude.</p>

<p>He is seeking a relatively small college that offers mechanical engineering with small classes. Huge state U’s are, I guess, out of the question - he will need the personal contact with profs, especially if he hopes to get through an engineering program. He would be at risk of being "lost" at a big school. We can consider private colleges and will probably not qualify for FA. </p>

<p>Geographic region is mid-Atlantic and he would be willing to travel up to five hours by car – figure between Mass and North Carolina. </p>

<p>He does not want an urban school; suburban or small town is fine.
We looked at Union in Schenectady and he liked it very much; however, we are concerned by some reports posted on CC regarding a weekend drinking culture at Union. He wants to be someplace where that is not the expected social agenda. </p>

<p>He takes a reasonably heavy course load – took two APs junior year and will take four senior year. His large suburban public school does not rank but if it did he would probably only be in the top quarter or third of the class at best (high performing student body). </p>

<p>Son’s main EC is music but he has not excelled in it – just enjoys participating. No “hook” – simply an underachieving BWRK – but a genuinely nice guy!!</p>

<p>Test scores are:</p>

<p>06/2007 SAT Subject Test<br>
Mathematics Level 2 760
U.S. History 710
03/2007 SAT Reasoning Test<br>
Critical Reading 760
Math 720
Writing 690
06/2006 SAT Subject Test<br>
Biology E 760</p>

<p>Grades average 86 or so in academic subjects. </p>

<p>Suggestions/advice welcome. THANKS!</p>

2

<p>Try Clarkson ??</p>

<p>IF he plans to get through any engineering program he is going to have to seriously revise his work habits and effort though. There is basically no worse environment for a slacker.</p>

3

<p>If he's going to stay a slacker you should seriously ask him to reconsider engineering. There is no way he will make it through without a MAJOR change.</p>

<p>edit: Just about everywhere has a "weekend drinking culture". You can also avoid it anywhere if you want to. Don't count out a school just because of that.</p>

4

<p>It's shame he's a "slacker"; if those are the SAT scores he gets without doing much studying, he'd be a force to reckon with if he did!</p>

5

<p>Thanks for the above responses. Yes, we are concerned (and have discussed with him) that his less than dedicated work habits bode poorly for a prospective engineering major. He needs to be at a school where he can have a backup plan. </p>

<p>Had I been in charge of distributing his characteristics, I would delightedly have traded in lots of ability for a more solid work ethic. Low motivation to do more than get by, and poor organization, have been issues throughout his schooling. Believe me, we have tried natural consequences (for any missing assignments, etc.) with him and he has actually improved his grades slowly over recent years. But he is still nowhere near achieving what he is capable of. This is a kid incapable of feeling stress. Easygoing to a serious fault.</p>

<p>Re the drinking culture, yes, we know it exists everywhere, but some places have more active alternatives than others. A small and somewhat isolated school with a heavy drinking culture could be more problematic than a large or urban school because of the difference in number of and access to alternative activities.</p>

6

<p>The d of a good friend of mine is in the engineering program at Union, and doesn't find the drinking culture to be overwhelming. She's found plenty else to do; at least that's what she says! And she loves it there.</p>

7

<p>The only thing I'm seeing about union is, if he does decide to end engineering (which he may not, if he gets motivated and works hard), I don't think they have many (any?) business majors. Business is one of the more common things for engineers to transfer to. Just something to think about.</p>

8

<p>Do a search on the engineering program search engine at TryEngineering.org
They will give you an idea of the entry requirements for each school. as well as specifics about the engineering specialties offered. Lots of other good information about engineering on this non-profit website: <a href="http://www.tryengineering.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.tryengineering.org&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

9

<p>Also, here are some additional suggestions for schools that would be "safer bets" for your son:
Alfred U (NY), Manhattan College (NY), Western New England (MA), U of Bridgeport, Widener (PA), and possibly WPI (but only if he is sure he wants engineering). The TryEngineering site will help you find others.</p>

<p>As for the "drinking culture" rumors about Union - that will be found at every school, but it doesn't mean your son has to participate. Check out the possiblity of sub-free dorms, and also check out what else is going on on campus each weekend. Union's administration has been working hard to provide alternatives for kids. I would suggest doing an overnight, and also trying to visit the campus on a weekend night to see whether your son might feel more comfortable than the "rumors" might suggest.</p>

10

<p>Thanks again, each of you, for the very helpful suggestions. </p>

<p>Yes, an overnight will be planned once we know where he might be "in." We are just doing day visits before that.</p>

11

<p>jyber: Don't sell your son short. Many kids who don't care about high school grades get to college and they ramp it up becoming excellent students. Some really smart kids are so bored in HS they really don't care about their grades.</p>

12

<p>Thanks, sax, for the encouragement. Hope springs eternal in this parent's heart! ;)
We have told son that if his college grades are not solid (i.e. 3.0 or above) he will need to leave school and do some rethinking/maturing. He knows we mean it.
What is weird is that his friends, including his girlfriend, are top achievers at his school, so he seems to gravitate to that type.</p>

13

<p>Rose Huleman?</p>

14

<p>I did the search for small schools that have engineering (and where a B+ student might have a chance of getting in). In the mid Atlantic region, some to consider are: Bucknell, Johns Hopkins, Lafayette, Lehigh, RPI, Univ of Rochester. Lafayette is probably the most nurturing. Most of these schools offer a variety of other majors besides engineering. Lehigh is the only one known for its drinking culture. My son and I also visited Villanova and it seemed very welcoming. The engineering department there is small, but they do have one. Its worth checking out because from your description of your son, he might fit in there. It seems more laid back than the others, and if engineering is a small department it might be a little easier for your son to get in. At Bucknell, I overheard a conversation where the admin officer basically admitted that they are only need-blind until they run out of financial aid money. So, being full-pay might make the difference for your son. Also, some majors there are less impacted than others. Economics seems to be very popular now.</p>

15

<p>I think both Bucknell and Lafayette are good choices. My boss went to Layfayette eons ago as an aspiring engineering major and washed out of engineering to become an economics major.</p>

<p>I would definitely focus on schools that offer more than engineering so there are other options for him should he choose to opt out without having to transfer schools.</p>

16

<p>Thanks again, all, for your responses.</p>

<p>Son applied to a range of schools, several early action. His top choice, and considering his underperforming grades a "reach," was Lafayette.</p>

<p>Meanwhille, he did manage to get his senior year grades to an appropriate level (pretty much A's, in a mix of honors and AP courses). We had told him he had to do this to have a prayer or either getting admitted to, or our paying for, his top choice. He apparently shone in his physics class and that teacher told us she wrote him a rave rec. </p>

<p>He was admitted with some very nice merit money to his safety, awarded a Presidential scholarship to a match/reach school, as well as admitted to several other fine schools (applied to six overall). He was not rejected anywhere (somewhat frustrating for the mom who was waiting to say, "I told you you should have worked harder all along!") ;)</p>

<p>He visited one of his merit scholarship schools on an overnight and was disappointed in the level of academics, particularly in the engineering class he attended. While the people could not have been nicer, he felt that he wanted to be in a more challenging environment.</p>

<p>So he headed back to Lafayette for a third visit, met with people in the engineering department, sat in on a class, hung out, and, just before the 2/15 deadline to do so, switched his Lafayette app to ED. (Lafayette offers this option, rather than having a separate ED II.) We supported this only because he had done what we demanded in terms of his senior year performance.</p>

<p>He was thrilled to be accepted to Lafayette, and has requested a substance-free floor in his dorm preference form. His plan is to do mechanical engineering with a possible backup of economics.</p>

<p>Meanwhile we, his parents, have told him he must obtain a specific GPA at Lafayette OR he will be pulled out for a gap year or so. He knows we mean it.</p>

<p>Whether he finally became convinced that it is best in the long run to do his work well, or responded to pressure (from us and his devoted and very high achieving girlfriend), or has actually matured, -- or possibly all of those -- he is a very happy (and very fortunate) guy. He has heard many times "You had better make the most of this opportunity!"</p>

<p>Thanks again for the feedback, suggestions and support!</p>

17

<p>I am just reading your posts but congrats on the excellent outcome. It looks like you did an excellent job of finding a good match school for your son.</p>

18

<p>JYBER209 -</p>

<p>Started this note before I'd checked the dates on what you'd posted - sorry! Congrats on the good news. Anyway, here is an idea for you if the first college doesn't work out:</p>

<p>Take a good look around you at the pre-engineering programs at your community college(s). Back in the Permian Age when I went to college, a couple of my HS pals started out at the Junior College (actually, one flunked out of Big State U and re-started at the JC) and then went to the Big State U to finish up in engineering. Both have built very successful careers as engineers and love their jobs. I've taken classes at two community colleges myself, and taught at another one, and the class sizes have never exceeded 25. Also, most community colleges have all sorts of support resources set up because they really want the students to succeed.</p>