<p>My D is a college freshman at an Ivy. She has just informed us that this summer she plans to attend three music camps that run from June-Aug. This would allow her 2 weeks at the start of the summer and 3 weeks at the end of the summer at home. She has indicated that she will pay for all of this out of her own money. (She has a small savings) She has been working on campus for the second semester and has built up a bit as well. (approx 1000)</p>
<p>She does not intend to work this summer, as participation in these camps would preclude it. She is also not a music major, although quite proficient in violin. She has no idea what she wants after college but is now saying that she thinks she probably wants to pursue music performance. Her school offers a minor in performance, which she will pursue as well as an academic major. The school does not offer a performance major. </p>
<p>I guess my problem is I think this is totally unrealistic for the summer. I think she should work in part for the money but mostly for the experience of having to actually discipline herself to go to a job every day. Character building as well as financial responsibility. I also think that if she does not work this summer, she will work more on campus during next year, possibly neglecting her academic work, in order to meet her financial obligations regarding school costs (which we have previously agreed upon). </p>
<p>I also think she wants to do the camps because she had a great time last summer doing one and hopes to meet up with some of the kids again this summer- the music camp world is actually pretty small. Most of the kids at camp are in fact music majors, going to conservatory or music schools at U's. </p>
<p>I don't know what to do to dissuade her of this plan. I don;t know if I should even try to dissuade her of this plan. I know I am a parent who encouraged the music education, but thought she had put the idea of a future in music performance behind her when she elected to attend the Ivy. She never applied anywhere as a potential music major. </p>
<p>I'd appreciate any thoughts you all might have.</p>
<p>On paper, can she realistically meet her portion of her expenses (that you said you have agreed on) without working in the summer? If not, putting that spreadsheet in front of her, may be the clearest message you can give. </p>
<p>Is it possible to compromise on one camp? One that would allow her to still work and have that be her only “vacation” from the paying job?</p>
<p>Yes, she can afford it. I have already broached the subject of compromise with her- no dice yet. We also don’t quite know the cost of the camps since it is quite possible that she will get merit scholarships to attend- she is a very good violinist.</p>
<p>My freshman D (also a proficient violinist but not performance major) did intensive summer music programs all through high school. For performers these programs are very important, and if your daughter is still considering music as a future option, I can understand why she’s focused on these programs. </p>
<p>How prestigious/competitive are the programs she’s considering? Are they audition based and does she know for sure that she has been accepted? If the options are top notch programs like Meadowmount, Tanglewood, Brevard, etc, then I can understand why she would jump at the opportunity to participate, because those are the programs that will advance her skill, experience and musical network.</p>
<p>IF she can afford it, and IF she will be able to hold up her end of the financial agreement you’ve made with her, then I’d let this be her decision.</p>
<p>Yes, they are audition based- they are Madeline Island, Bowdoin and MIMR. The acceptances have not yet come, but Mad Island is for pretty much sure since she attended last year. She is only interested in chamber music programs this summer, not the orchestra programs.</p>
<p>Does your daughter actually have a job waiting for her this summer? Unemployment rates are so high in our community that college students are competing with people who have tons of experience – even for entry-level and minimum wage jobs. There are absolutely NO SUMMER JOBS anywhere around here for college students who can work only 2-3 months.</p>
<p>Attending music camps – particularly if she has her own money and is willing to part with it – can give her some valuable experience that is directly related to what may be her future career. I’d back off and leave the decision to her. Since she’s already working part-time at school, she’s already shown maturity and discipline.</p>
<p>If she can afford both the camps and to not have the income from a summer job, then I’d happily let her attend the music camps. I frankly don’t think there is any discipline or character to be gained from a job this summer that won’t be gained from jobs during the school year or next year or the year after. She’s already been working at school, so it’s not like she hasn’t had that experience. I think working on her music is a better use of her time than working a minimum wage job. again assuming she can financially afford not to have that job.</p>
<p>I think your daughter’s idea is a good one.</p>
<p>With the poor supply of summer jobs and paid internships this summer, I think that any student who can find another interesting and constructive way to spend the summer would be well advised to make that choice.</p>
<p>My own daughter, a year older than yours, has accepted an unpaid internship (an absolutely wonderful one, directly related to her major, but nevertheless unpaid). If she had been unable to find an internship, she would have attended a summer session at a local college. She never seriously considered trying to get a job because it’s a rather hopeless quest, except perhaps for kids who can return to camp counselor or lifeguard jobs that they had in the past. Retail, which is usually a good source of jobs for young people, is laying people off, not hiring. </p>
<p>I think it’s noteworthy that the ONLY internship interviews my daughter got were for unpaid programs. She never heard back from some of the paid ones, and others, including some extremely well-known and well-established programs, sent her e-mails saying that the programs had been cancelled for this year.</p>
<p>As for discipline, music requires plenty of it. So do unpaid internships. So does working during the school year. So does keeping up with the academic demands of an Ivy League college. I wouldn’t be too concerned about that.</p>
<p>I think the idea sounds great. Our son attended language immersion programs overseas the summers after his freshman and sophomore years, so didn’t work. But, he works during the school year and paid for most of the cost of these programs himself. As an engineering major, he doesn’t have the opportunity to study languages as much as he wants during the academic year, so prefers to use his summers this way. If your daughter had never held a job, it would be one thing. The fact that she knows how to work and is self funding is something else entirely.</p>
<p>Another vote for letting her do the music camps. I understand the values to be learned having a job, but who among us would not kill for another chance to spend time like that doing something constructive that we love to do? Beyond the college years such opportunities come to most of us few and far between. There will be a lifetime of learning the lessons and responsibilities of adulthood, and from what you’ve said, it sounds like she demostrates a good level of responsibility already. Might be interesting to see where her continued interest in music takes her.</p>
<p>To answer a few of the questions-
No- she doesn’t have a job lined up. She has never worked during the summers. They have always been music filled, various camps, throughout high school. Her job on campus this past semester is her first work experience. (She’s working in the cafeteria- plate cleaning).</p>
<p>It is possible that she could get a few paid gigs and/or tutor for a test prep company during the weeks she is home and do the music camps for the rest of the summer. She has put in a few applications for summer work, at Target and Borders, but I tend to think the jobs will go to year rounders rather than summer help. The economy is bad- the malls are noticeable less busy. And I think she would not do well as a waitress. Not to mention restaurant sales are down. </p>
<p>Thus far, I have left the decision up to her. Since she is willing to pay for it and can still meet her obligations for next year, I certainly can’t and won’t stop her. And I agree that being at music camps is better than sitting at home if no gainful employment can be had. I guess I’m just surprised that she is going this way and slightly annoyed that she did not apply for any jobs until I literally made her do it when she was home for spring break.</p>
<p>That sounds like a fabulous summer to me! She’ll get to work at regular jobs for the rest of her life, and even if it’s work she loves, there will always be enough inherent drudgery to dull most peoples’ enthusiasm for growth. That’s the key characteristic of a truly educated person - their enthusiasm is eternal and constantly evolving. It’s not only what gets them through the tough times, it’s what fuels the passion and creativity that makes them great in the good times. My D1 spent her summer after freshman year studying in Peru two years ago; current freshman D2 is headed to Argentina this summer. Two summers ago, I went to a shoe store at or local mall and was waited on in a store by one of D1’s high school friends. Meanwhile, D1 was up in the Andes interviewing family members of victims of the Shining Path movement. I felt sort of sad for the friend in the store.</p>
<p>I think your daughter has a very good, productive and thought-out plan.</p>
<p>You can voice your opinions, of course, and give your advice. But she is a big girl now. You are not in a position to “let her” or not “let her” do anything, unless she wants you to pay for it.</p>
<p>I can only imagine how infuriating it could be for her to hear that you insist on her taking a meaningless job to “build character” instead of doing a program that she feels will help her grow as a musician. She obviously thought this out if she can fulfill all her financial obligations. Let her live her life.</p>
<p>nngmm- Thank you for the input. I want to be clear that I have not insisted on anything with her. And that I am trying to “let her live her own life”. I am sharing my concerns here- I have not been demanding with her. </p>
<p>There is one other consideration for the summer- my D has never learned how to drive. She has tried twice and not been successful. I do think that she should master this skill and am unsure whether the 2 weeks at the beginning and 3 weeks at the end of summer will provide her enough time to do so.</p>
<p>About driving - again, it should be her call. </p>
<p>I can see why you want her to have the skill, but it’s something she needs to want enough to make it happen. FWIW, we have 3 kids. Two of them learned how to drive as soon as the option was available to them, and got their license at 16. The middle one did not manage to get her license till her sophomore year in college. After she graduated from college, she went abroad for a year, forgot to renew her license that expired and lapsed, and now will to go through the process again… My guess is that it will take a few years…</p>
<p>patiencema–how great that your D has this incredible talent, that Im sure gives her and you great joy and pride. When else in your life can you truly do something for the joy of loving what you do, and not because you must do, because you know your responsibility? Your D sounds like an amazing girl, who had the wherewithal to get into an IVY, so Im sure she has the responsibility quality, as well as understanding of a demanding world outside college. Let her follow her passion for the summer, as long as she keeps up with an academic major during the school year.</p>
<p>Regarding the driving- the reason it is an important issue is that it is difficult to get around without the skill. Particularly in Houston, TX. When she is home on breaks, etc. she does not use public transportation or cabs- she relies on my husband and I to cart her around. I have told her that our taxi cab days are over as of the end of this coming summer. If she chooses not to learn to drive, then she can navigate the public transportation system (such as it is) or pay for cabs. Driving would seriously increase her independence, which is what I want for her.</p>
<p>Actually, five weeks at home with no structured activities sounds like an excellent opportunity to work on driving skills. It would be much harder for her to take driving lessons or work on practice driving with a family member if she had a job.</p>
<p>You can’t win all your battles. Perhaps you might want to consider giving up on the summer job idea (especially because few jobs are likely to be available this year), but pushing the issue of learning to drive – with the hope of getting a commitment from her that she will devote substantial time to this effort during the weeks when she’s home. It’s a smaller issue, and you might win this one. You could help things along by finding out exactly what she would need to do to fulfill the requirements for a driver’s license and how she could best accomplish this during the weeks when she’s home. Because it’s your idea, she may not be enthusiastic about doing the research.</p>
<p>If this were my child, I would think about a striking a deal. The other posters are right about summer jobs needing a big effort this year; the employers have so many students and even adults to choose from that a half-hearted commitment is not likely to be productive. Since she works at school and feels she has earned the money for the camps, I would let her do them, with the agreement that she must learn to drive ASAP, and that next summer she must be employed. </p>
<p>The summer before junior year is a possible internship summer, and it should at least be a working one in her field of study to prepare for an internship between junior and senior years. Getting a job after graduation is no small endeavor these days, and preparing with internships is one of the most productive avenues to a full time position. So, don’t overlook that, but let this be her last childlike summer.</p>
<p>You know, when I read your description of the situation, it brought to mind the conversations we had with our own D (also a freshman in an Ivy School:-)) when she announced that she was applying for a 7 week intensive language program in Italy this summer.
Initially, we voiced some practical objections, such as cost and the need for job experience, and we questioned the usefulness of learning Italian when she is practically bilingual in French. But, like your D, she had an answer to all of those.
What it really boiled down to was that we had hoped to see more of her this summer: with a local job, she would have lived at home. Once we got our real concern out in the open, we were able to agree on how much time she would spend on vacation with us and admit that the language program did fit in her long-term plans.
Please forgive me if my reading of your situation is colored by our own experience, but would you feel better if your daughter could assure you that she intends to spend <em>some</em> quality time with you at some point during the summer?
Been there, thought that (maybe;-))</p>